Did I start by saying "I'm a gadget nut" ?.

I didn't "need" a 7" Android Tablet, yet find it extraordinarily useful. The $30 mos data plan BluesDawg mentioned is yet another gadget expense I could maybe....... well no I couldn't do without (didn't we do this discussion ?).

So I wasn't being critical of anyone's cycle computer choices, just trying to get a handle on any GPS advantages and arguing myself out of buying one.

I highly recommend the Garmin 305. I had one for years and the thing is bullet proof. Just don't trust the bike mount. It came off and a suv ran over it. I miss that thing. I had no problem with the elevation either. It was cheep and could be used for running and cycling.

Just one data point, but a riding friend of mine is a major gadget freak and computer geek. He started out with an iphone app for tracking and later went to a Garmin Edge 305. He much prefers the readouts and other features of the Garmin, but still usually uses the phone app so his wife can know where he is by viewing a site that shows his location. Different strokes, but that strikes me as more of a negative. ;)

Sounds like you are talking about the Forerunner 305 rather than the Edge 305. I have the Forerunner 305 and it works well, but if you compare the elevation and grade data it shows to what better units with barometric altimeters show for the same routes, you'll find that it is way off.
I want to upgrade to one of the newer models like the 500 or the 800, but I can't justify the cost since the one I have does most of what I want from it.

I think the iPhone and any other similar back-lit phone type displays are a terrible idea. You can hardly read them in direct sunlight and their batteries are terrible for this purpose. I've been riding with GPS devices mounted on my handlebars for 10 years starting with an ancient Magellan hand-held. I'm currently using a 5 yr old Garmin GPSMap60Cx and love it. But now there are some devices aimed specifically at bike functions (as many have mentioned) so I'm looking around. The transreflective displays are essential in bright sunlight (which is when most of us prefer to ride). Again, phone displays suck. My annual WI trip has 8 days of prearranged maps which I load into my device for turn-by-turn advice.. I don't have to load a paper map in a handlebar bag and I don't have to stop for page turns. I'm not sure I can give up the flexibility of these hand held "hiking" oriented devices with moving map displays. And they provide plenty of data that simple bike computers do (speed, distance, etc).

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=235668

I have a Garmin 800 and really like it. It works well, recharges fairly quickly and seems to be reasonably accurate for my riding.

Yes, it was expensive, but I ride so much that I kind of talked myself into thinking that I deserved it. Big picture, I'm glad I did. It gives me all the information I want and/or need both as I ride and then later when download it onto my PC.

Here is a download of the ride I did Sunday if you'd like to take a look at it to help you decide.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/145768020

Note: I have the elevation correction turned off because several cyclists who use the 800 told me it was more accurate that way. Is that right?

Rick / OCRR

How long does the charge last? I've avoided "charging" devices in favor of replaceable batteries because I'm sometimes on 8-10hr rides and need a quick battery change sometimes. I'm loving the capabilities built into these bike-specific units. Your download data looks way cool. Hard to resist, and I'm itching for an equipment update anyway.

To further clarify:
Most of these devices are easily capable of recording and storing multiple rides. Most people could probably offload data and recharge weekly.... if the daily process bothers you.

You can also get a battery extender for the Iphone if you need more hours.

My 305 is helpful and does what I need.

If you join Strava.com you can get a smoking deal on several different Garmin GPS models.

Have no idea on the 800, but the Edge 500 internal battery is spec'd to last 18 hours. Never bumped into that limit because I usually upload my data right after a ride to Strava and Garmin Connect, (and the battery is recharged at the same time via USB).

p.s. When you are ready to sell your GPSMap 60Cx, drop me a note. I teach "Map Interpretation and GPS" at the local community college and have two of those already, (and a 60CSx). I could use another.

Only somewhat on topic:


In today's NY Times and an interesting read having gotten lost heading into NJ today out of the Holland Tunnel. My GPS didn't have the most recent updates to the construction, which to be fair was probably done 2 weeks ago. And it IS Jersey after all !, where road signage is developed by the learning disabled and where you have to go right to go left.

What I found interesting was that after a lifetime of reading maps at breakfast, while sitting on the toilet, etc.... my brain is totally conditioned to North Up, 2D View. Thus the heading, 3d view on a GPS is sometimes confusing to me and this article explained why.


"It’S a question that probably every driver with a Garmin navigation device on her dashboard has asked herself at least once: What did we ever do before GPS? How did people find their way around, especially in places they’d never been before?

Like most questions asked in our tech-dependent era, these underestimate the power of the human mind. It is surprisingly good at developing “mental maps” of an area, a skill new research shows can grow stronger with use. The question is, with disuse — say, by relying on a GPS device — can we lose the skill, too?

The notion of a mental map isn’t new. In the 1940s, the psychologist Edward C. Tolman used rats in mazes to demonstrate that “learning consists not in stimulus-response connections but in the building up in the nervous system of sets which function like cognitive maps.”

This concept is widely accepted today. When exploring a new territory, we perceive landmarks along a route. By remembering their position and the spatial relations between the streets, locations and landmarks we pass, we are able to develop survey knowledge (stored in the mind like a mental map), which enables us to indicate directions, find shortcuts or detours — in short, to react and navigate comfortably.

It’s not all in our heads, though: physical maps help us build cognitive maps. By depicting the spatial relations in a big context, they provide a useful reference to integrate navigational experience.

In one experiment, I had 26 residents of Tübingen, Germany, navigate a three-dimensional model of their hometown by wearing head-mounted displays. My team and I asked them to point to well-known locations around town not visible from their current perceived position.

Varying their viewing direction — facing north, facing east — we then assessed their pointing error. All participants performed best when facing one particular direction, north, and the pointing error increased with increasing deviation from north. In other words, by using knowledge gained from navigation to link their perceived position to the corresponding position on a city map, participants could easily retrieve the locations from their memory of city maps — which, after all, are typically oriented north.

If maps help us, what is the problem with GPS? A lot: in my opinion, it is likely that the more we rely on technology to find our way, the less we build up our cognitive maps. Unlike a city map, a GPS device normally provides bare-bones route information, without the spatial context of the whole area. We see the way from A to Z, but we don’t see the landmarks along the way. Developing a cognitive map from this reduced information is a bit like trying to get an entire musical piece from a few notes.

Our brains act economically: they try to decrease the amount of information to be stored (e.g., by relating new thoughts to already known content) and avoid storing unnecessary information. That may be the unconscious appeal of a GPS, but it means we’re not pushing our brains to work harder.

And a GPS device may even contradict your mental map by telling you to go left (e.g., for a faster highway) while your target is actually to the right. All of this leads us to use our mental maps even less.

But shouldn’t we just accept that GPS is a good substitute for old-fashioned maps? No. Navigational devices can be time-savers, but they can easily become crutches. Break your GPS, and you may find yourself lost.

And there is more: The psychologist Eleanor A. Maguire and her colleagues at University College London found that spatial experience actually changes brain structures. As taxi drivers learned the spatial layout of London, the gray matter in their hippocampal areas — that is, the areas of the brain integrating spatial memories — increased. But if the taxi drivers’ internal GPS grew stronger with use, it stands to reason that the process is reversible after disuse. You may degrade your spatial abilities when not training them, as with someone who learned a musical instrument and stopped playing.

Navigating, keeping track of one’s position and building up a mental map by experience is a very challenging process for our brains, involving memory (remembering landmarks, for instance) as well as complex cognitive processes (like calculating distances, rotating angles, approximating spatial relations). Stop doing these things, and it’ll be harder to pick them back up later.

How to avoid losing our mental maps? The answer, as always, is practice.

Next time you’re in a new place, forget the GPS device. Study a map to get your bearings, then try to focus on your memory of it to find your way around. City maps do not tell you each step, but they provide a wealth of abstract survey knowledge. Fill in these memories with your own navigational experience, and give your brain the chance to live up to its abilities.

I do a lot of road riding and have literally dozens of routes and variations in my head. When I want to lead a small group of friends on a 32 miler with no hills, that heads west then returns with the wind, having a mapping program that keeps track and shows you the route, even if it's only on-line and not actually on the computer, is very useful.

I use a free Android program called My Tracks. It GPS tracks the ride, up to the life of the phone battery, so 4-6 hrs ?, or so ?. The phone is in my back pocket so I don't get a readout of speed, distance, pace, etc.... I use a regular $60 Catyeye wireless for that.

When the ride is over I save the route and send it to Google Maps, where I can view the track and that's about it. I have been, since '97, logging my miles and workouts in program called Training Base, that I purchased. A very powerful spreadsheet based custom program, except that it's all manual entry. I no longer type in the route taking, simply linking to the Google map.

Or I can and have started doing the same, only on MapMyRide, also free. I can then instantly upload (no wired PC connection required) and I now have the route maps as well as the workout all logged on MapMyRide, for view from any computer/device, but again, no real-time live readout. Easier to use though and If I forget to GPS track, I can still manually enter the ride data. There are assorted other on-line services, Strava is supposed to be good, I just wasn't impressed with the amount of data you can keep for a ride. I, as example, take notes as to issues with the bike, which bike was ridden, maintenance done, which when combined with known accumulated mileage tells me when to change chains, cassettes, or when and what maintenance was done and when, etc..

Others use a dedicated GPS bike computer to combine the live data display with the ability to upload the ride data. Also very useful, just a lot pricier for the gear.

SB

I hope this isn't hijacking the post - I think it's on topic:

Some riding buddies have recommended the Garmin Etrex Vista HCx. It looks very good and I was about to pull the trigger on a purchase today, but saw this thread and thought I'd double-check my very expensive decision here.

I'd like a GPS unit that:
1.) Will not run out of battery power half-way through a really long ride (e.g. double or triple centuries, 24-hour events, and riding several days straight.)
2). Provides turn-by-turn directions
3). Allows me to download my ride after the event.

For those who advocate using your phones - it's wonderful that they work for you ... but using a phone will NOT work for me because:
- Battery life is an issue
- I do very long rides
- I'm occasionally on roads that have no cell signal (and yes, that does impact the GPS capability - plus it drains the battery more quickly)
- My phone is needed for emergency calls - and with a dead battery, I'd be SOL.

From what I've read so far, it seems to me that the Garmin 300 / 500 / 800 / etc. that have rechargeable batteries will not last the duration of my rides. Is that true..?


So my question:

Based on these requirements, would the Etrex Vista HCx be the best choice? Do you have any other suggestions?

Since this is the 50+ thread, this additional info might be helpful Due to some health issues last year, I developed some cardiac problems. Two of my docs were accepting of my return to riding (they were avid Mountain bikers as well) but the cardiologist was not. He wanted me to bring the charts that I can print after downloading rides from my 305. He wanted to see what ranges I was riding in and what my heart was doing under stress of a long ride. Now he is happy and has released me do whatever I want.

I started riding for health. Doing a couple of stupid things hurt me in the past 3 years. Now I understand the wisdom in the term: ACT YOUR AGE!

There is also the personal training aspect. I have three primary loops that I ride. I can see if I cam slacking off or improving my heart health. If I ride the same loop in the same time, but the average heart rate is lower, I know my heart is stronger.

I do a 600 mi trip thru Wisconsin every year with a new route every year. I started on GPS's morre than 10 yrs ago for this trip. (Next year will be our 23rd annual) I also occasionally explore a new route and find GPS fantastically useful. On my workout rides I carry nothing but an iPod, tube, and CO2 pump on my ancient Peugeot UO8 singlespeed. Heavy-ish and indestructible. Heaven.

I downloaded the Cyclemeter app for my iPhone and tried it out today. Blew me away. I love it! Didn't drain my battery much (but then, I was only out there for less than an hour). For my purposes, and until I get to the point where I'm riding several hours at a time, this works just fine. Kept the phone in a pocket. I liked how I could email the ride stats to myself, I liked the voice telling me how far I'd gone, etc. For $4.99, it's a bargain.

Another vote for the Garmin 500. I'd love turn-by-turn, but the jump in price is well beyond what I'm willing to pay.

It wouldn't be my first choice. I like the size & data (hrm & cadence) that the Garmin 305/705/800 offer and turn-by-turn direction files are easier to install also. I have tried to use my Garmin GPSmap76sc but just don't find it as useful as the smaller units (I have all 3). The larger unit works better on the boat, and the smaller ones on the bike. A lot of the brevets that I ride have .gpx files available for download before the ride. As far as power is concerned, I can get about 16 hours out of a full charge and have a lithium ion backup that I velcro to the aerobars and plug into the gps when it's running low. This has always gotten me to the overnight control where I can charge it up. If you weren't stopping overnight, I know you can get one full charge from the backup for a total of at least 30 hours riding time. A second backup would also be an option if needed (they're small & can use the same cable).

The 800 (and probably the other Garmins as well) can be charged off a normal 110 circuit or via USB into a computer. Either way works but the 110 seems to be about twice as fast. I've found they last fine for a century (about 6-1/2 to 7 hours) but fall short of a double century by about 30 - 40 miles.

You can get portable phone rechargers (USB) that many doubles riders use, and they just recharge their Garmin while they eat lunch (about half an hour).

Rick / OCRR

I bought a 3x oversize battery with rear cover for my Android My-Touch slide and battery life is not an issue at all.

Don in Austin

I own an Edge 305, and the rubber buttons are getting pretty worn, so I've been looking at the 500s. Dang it, I found one ON SALE for NEXT TO NOTHING on Ebay, so I bought it.

I'm not up to the distances Duncan is doing, yet, but I plan to get there over the nest 24 months, so we shall see. For long long journeys I'm planning on the 500 for basic GPS stuff, my iPhone for occasional appeals to Google maps, and a battery extender of some sort. Over at the lights and gadgets forum, they're always talking about this stuff, so when the time comes I'll buy whatever is in vogue. I think you can get a megarecharger for less than $100.

Good info - thanks. I'll price them.