B. Carfree

Nice summary of the 50+ forum, Rowan. The only thing to add is that we have many members who are/have been various combinations of what you listed.

Papa Tom

I don't know if this has been said yet, but I think it's important to put Petersen's book in perspective, as just another idea that we are all welcome to accept, reject, or borrow bits and pieces from.

As an agitated 16-year-old, I was totally mesmerized by the philosophies of a drugged out, angry John Lennon. As a struggling entrepreneur at 26, I read Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" and believed the whole world needed to shed that book and live by its message. Today, I am a completely different person, but I have incorporated the best messages in all the things I have read or heard over the years into a way of life that agrees with me.

My conclusion is that we should not feel threatened by or compelled to argue with Grant Petersen's book just because it's out there. The mere fact that he put his thoughts on paper does not mean any of us has to change our attitude about biking or modify our affiliation with any category of cyclist.

As Paul McCartney recently responded when subjected to a barrage of judgmental comments about whether The Beatles' 1968 "White Album" should have been a single - instead of a double - album: "It's the Bloody Beatles Bloody White Album. Shutoop!"

irwin7638

you're right. I love both of mine. 4 days 5 pages, kinda slow for a GP thread.

Marc

Mobile 155

Yes and that is what we have been talking about. As has been mentioned earlier we all know there is a massive base of people who just ride simply. I dare say most of us started out in that same group. But then some us started to read and look for something more or different and thre you got MTBs, Hybrid commuters, Cyclocross riders, Bent riders, rodies, endurance riders, and yes the massive base was still there. But they don't tend to post on forums like this and they don't tend to have a book shelf full of cycling books nor a list of favorite cycling authors. So when he says some cyclists are leading them in the wrong direction who is he directing his comments to? The people already making up that mass of people who just go and out and buy a bike and ride aren't reading his book, they aren't interested in changing anything. His book isn't directed at people who have Rivendales. He is directing his book at those of us that have taken a different path and makes reference to us several times.

If some can shrug it off as if he is trying to reach the massive group that is already doing what he suggests then it is simply a sales pitch to buy a Rivendale. If he thinks he is reaching the people that have started to follow other authors then he is proselytizing. But more to the point there is a better chance that one of us, those that have started to move in another direction, and only hear, don't try to increase your power by pedaling in circles or learning to spin or getting the best selection of gears for the kind of riding we do or even upgrade our equiment.

In other words the Just Ride book seems to be aimed at those of us that wear helmets, gloves, log our rides, try to improve our climbing, learn about endurance riding, and letting us know that he doesn't approve because he knows what is better for us, in fact better than what we do. Many can ignore what he has to say and move on, until someone mentiones the book and we get a chance to explain what we think of it.

Some might decide to be PC and ignore the constant jabs at people that ride in groups, ride in cycling specific clothing, ride centuries, doubles and other endurance events. But in my opinion only being PC is the biggest cop out of our society. It allows people to pretend in public something they don't believe in private. I for one can not say I liked his book or give it a positive review. I am not trying be disrespectful I am only tossing the fertilizer flag on Grant's opinion in this specific book dealing with the specific issues I have mentioned several times.

big john

There is nothing wrong with buying expensive stuff, even if it is "just for appearance" as long as you aren't starving your family. The people I know who have 5 or even $10k bikes have done their research and spent their money on something they want. They know they can go just as fast or far on a much cheaper bike, but they want something nice. They are not fools or "wannabe racers". They are not trying to be something they are not, just enjoying a hobby they love.

This made me think of a co-worker who re-fied his house and spent $65k on a fishing boat and $35k on a truck to tow it with. Cycling, even at higher levels, is cheap compared to some hobbies.

btw, a friend rides a $7k custom carbon fiber recumbent and wears cycling clothes doing it. More power to him, I say.

Hangtownmatt

BluesDawg ... I think I know what you're saying and I have to agree. I think a lot of people dislike Grant without ever having met him and/or knowing very little about him. Many opinions are based on what is read on the Internet. I know when I first met him in person I was surprised. I really expected someone completely different. I've attached a slide show to a recent Grant Petersen group ride. You have to get through the 1st 20 or so photos to get to the ride, but if you do, you will find a small sampling of diverse cyclists riding on some of the best trails this world has to offer. I've been to his shop; bought a Sam Hllborne. These people are not a cult. They are cycling enthusiasts. Everyone's welcome from full Lycra to whatever. Enjoy:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mannyac...7632262611731/

Matt

rydabent

It seems amazing that the title "Just Ride" gets so many all hyper. Anyone on a bike is a cyclist. That includes a 3 year old on a $50 big box store bike with training wheels. It also includes people at the other end of the spectrum on a $10,000 carbon fiber bike. At 74 I no longer need training wheels, nor do I need or can afford a $10,000 bike made of unobtainium. But it does include me on my recumbent and trike. The thing I do object to is the snobbery of some that think if I dont dress right, or ride an "approved" bike, I am not a cyclist.

As the author says, just ride!! Dont care or be driven by what others think. As I have said before, dont worry about what others think, most dont think anyway.

Six jours

I don't think the book is aimed at you at all. Grant has repeatedly written that if folks enjoy dressing up and staring at their power meters, then that's great. His book is aimed at people who have been led to the belief that that is the only way to be a "serious" cyclist; that dressing up and staring at the power meter is the only game in town if you want to enjoy recreational cycling as an adult.

So I think the book is aimed at people who are not enjoying that, or who are avoiding the sport entirely because they think that's the only way it's done. I don't see the problem with Grant trying to show folks that it's a bigger world than that, and that it's okay to be an adult recreational cyclist without emulating racers as closely as possible.

At worst, I think Grant is guilty of believing (and sometimes writing) that dressing up and staring at a power meter is a really weird form of recreation.

curdog

Great photos.

big john

Have people actually said this stuff to you? Has anyone here actually been told they have to buy something to be a cyclist?

I've been riding since the early 80s, with clubs, with racers, with many, many people and to me, cyclists and racers have been nothing but accepting and encouraging. I'm quite fredly, a little overweight, and wear old clothes and high white socks, and the worst I ever got was a little teasing.
I read on bike forums about the 'elitist' attitude and I don't know where that comes from, either. Jerks are all around in whatever activity you choose, but cycling people are some of the best people I have met.

Sure, I have run into some Bozos at bike stores, I just don't go there anymore.

As to "dressing up and staring at a powermeter", well, that's a pretty insulting way to describe the use of a powermeter, which is nothing more than a training tool that some people use to help them acheive their goals. I don't use one, nor do I use any electronics on my bikes, but some find these things helpful. I've not seen anyone actually stare at one, however.

donheff

I agree that most riders don't cop an attitude to others that ride a different style. But, it is not uncommon to run into snobby or condescending sales people at bike stores. Sure you can choose to move on to the next store if you live in a megalopolis with alternatives handy. But those attitudes will scare off some customers and lead others to buy bikes they won't enjoy. My impression was that Peterson disdains the tendency of the industry to drive customers in this direction (high performance, cutting edge) and is counseling his readers to ignore it and go for fun/utility.

DnvrFox

I've been snubbed - not often, but here is one "snubbing."

I was riding my mtn bike with Levis on -an entry level $300.00 (but one that took me on the "Ride the Rockies"). I was at a trail intersection, and there was a bunch of really "team kitted up" - flying the colors, if you like - group there who were confused about the direction to go. I rode up and was offering to help with the directions - but I was totally snubbed, not even acknowledged, and off they went, and I hoped they had chosen the road to Hell.

Now, this does not happen often, and, generally single roadies are very - extremely - nice. But, perhaps there is a group dynamic when a bunch get together forming a sort of "exclusive" group - I don't know.

BlazingPedals

Just what I was referring to when I wrote that he exudes an unconscious intolerance. I haven't read *much* of his writing, but what I have seems to use unflattering terms for everyone who isn't him. Of should I say, everyone who doesn't subscribe to his philosophy. And he doesn't even seem to know he's doing it. In a very real way, he's the elitist. If all he's trying to say is that there are many ways to enjoy riding, alienating everyone else is a strange way of doing it.

Rowan

Conversely, I've been in ordinary groups (a touring bunch of rag tag riders) that have expressed the same level of, how shall I say it, disdain, to other kitted-up riders going innocently and politely about their business.

steve0257

Yes. I don't ride with that group anymore.

I don't care if somebody buys specialized clothing and equipment. Just don't expect me to buy them.

crazyb

The best representation I have ever seen of the typical "cyclist" is Ragbrai. On any given day, 15 to 20,000 cyclists at one time, and most are wearing Lycra shorts (padded for comfort) and Lycra jerseys (its hot out there and they wick moisture better). And they ride bikes with lots of gears (Mtn, recumbent, full road, touring, hybrid, doesn't matter) because it is hilly in Iowa, and lots of gears seem to work on hills for most folks. Hardly any body out there in cargo shorts and a t shirt on a 3 speed.

Mobile 155

Your opinion verses mine. He said in an early Chapter that you should just mash on the pedals because no one can pedal in circles. He said in the same chapter that non one can lift or pull up on the back pedal. Chapter three I believe, maybe two. Later he said we have too many gears. You only need 8 total chapter four or five. Who is the ones he is talking about that have too many gears? Who are the ones he is talking about that shift too much? Who is he saying is falling for the industry move towards racer bikes? No I don't see any encouragement in his book only a complaining on the direction the industry is taking. My opinion only maybe but I read these things and took it as directed at a group of people that he didn't approve of. So that is why I said in my first post he is my least favorite writer. He still is and always will be.

big john

Wow. It's rude to ignore anyone in a social situation, especially someone trying to help, and it's just stupid to ignore help from a local when you are lost.
Like I said, jerks can be everywhere.

big john

That would suck to not have an alternative store. It took a while to find the one I like and I have been using them for years. I also tried many dentists and doctors and even veternarians before finding 'the one'. I work at a car dealer so at least I don't have to deal with those sales types.

For new riders the best advice might be to start inexpensive and give it some time to decide what type of riding they like and if they will be happy on a cheap cruiser or if they want to drop $$$ on a nice bike.

Cassave

John, that's how we know it's you when you're up the road and almost out of sight.
See you for Mt. Wilson.

oldbobcat

Methinks Grant should take his own advice and Just Ride.

We're very similar. I try to make money selling carbon bikes and power meters to fat guys, and he tries to make money selling books that tell them they don't need that stuff.

I-Like-To-Bike

That is where at least one member of this group has a different opinion of what represents a typical cyclist or the micrososm of cyclists. I don't find your accurate observation of the make-up of the bulk of RAGBRAI cyclists representative of the population of cyclists in Iowa, or the U.S., though they very well may represent the "typical" customers of some LBS's, bicycle clubs, or a typical poster in this discussion group.

Yes there are outliers on this list, maybe even one or two who ride a bike without an LBS provenance, and a few without performance goals, but not many judging by the content of the posts

Six jours

I don't know which RAGBRAI you guys are thinking of. This is the real version.



Dunno if that's Grant or not.

ThermionicScott 

That's interesting -- I've seen loads of people wearing T-shirts and jean shorts (even full jeans) on old Schwinns in my four RAGBRAIs. Wouldn't be my choice of gear, but these folks seem to be having a good time.

There's even a growing SS/FG contingent -- generally younger folks, but not always.

crazyb

I didn't say all, but doesn't matter anyway cause most out there could give a rats ass what Grant Peterson thinks. They probably don't even know who he is.