Fueling...are there rules?
 

Just wondering if there are ways of estimating what I should be drinking and eating on rides. I am assuming a lot of this is dependent on things like age and weight. Just trying to figure out what I should be doing. I am basically a B rider but would not have a problem doing a B+ plus pace. If I could get my weight down about 10 lbs I could do even better. Not really bad for having just turned 67. But, when I have problems on rides that are 50+ miles it's all about the fueling.

Today we did a 42 mi. ride that had a couple serious climbs and by the end I was getting close to spasm in my legs. I'm pretty sure I didn't drink or eat enough but on the bike I often feel like I don't want to drink. Don't know why exactly.

Drink a bottle of water for every 15 miles.

Rules for riding:
1. Drink before you're thirsty.
2. Eat before you're hungry.
3. Rest before you're tired.

You can eat fig bars, gels, energy bars, or whatever gives you quick energy.

I'm 68 and these rules work for me.

On a 50 mile ride I'd carry at least 4 gels and maybe a Hammer bar.

How much to eat and drink is not about how much energy you burn, it is about how much you can absorb. Most of us can absorb only about 60 grams - 240kcal - of carbohydrate per hour, so eating more than that simply means you won't finish digesting it until after the ride has ended. So my advice would be to make sure you are well fed before the start, then start eating at the end of the first hour and consume c.250kcal per hour thereafter. What you eat depends on taste, but something easily digestible that you like and know agrees with you.

Drinking is more controversial, because most people will tell you to drink more than you feel you need. In fact, the latest evidence appears to be that it is fine to drink when you are thirsty, and that over-hydrating can be worse than mild dehydration. Once again, there's a limit to how much water your system can process. If I recall correctly it's around a litre per hour, more in hot conditions. But drink a great deal more than that and you tend to bloat. Drink far too much and you risk hyponatremia, which screws up your sodium levels and can be dangerous.

Someone on here linked recently to the guidance on the Hammer nutrition website, which spells a lot of this stuff out. I'm not advocating that you buy their products - I don't - but the analysis of nutritiona and hydration needs is useful.

Edit-hammer guidance

kcal or cal, chasm?

Machka has always recommended an intake of between 250 and 300 calories and hour for long-distance rides.

Bear in mind the liver has stores of glycogen for up to two hours of riding -- but that depends on the intensity, as well.

The maxim in LD circles is to eat in the first hour and keep topping up (the old "eat before you are hungry and drink before you are thirsty). The tendency in a group situation is to bypass eating and drinking because of the concentration needed to keep a line and watch what's happening around you.

There have been several threads in various forums about muscle cramping. It depends where the cramps are. If you are ramping up distance and climbing from previous rides, some of it might have to do with muscles getting used to additional load, and the incidence of cramping may reduce the more you ride long distances (subject to adequate fuel and fluid maintenance).

But adequate rehydration, along with electrolytes, including potassium (which we have discussed previously), and with perhaps a dose of Tums for some of the other trace elements such as calcium and magnesium, might also be helpful.

Having said that, quality refuelling and rehydration to maintain a good balance in the stomach (so, as chasm pointed out, there is a decent uptake of nutrients) can counter some of the cramping issues.

Remember how far you went before you bonked and eat long before that. I save the sweet stuff until just before the end (like of a century) myself. And have eaten something savory long before then. But I've always drank when thirsty and not before unlike the eating.

It also helps to begin rides well hydrated. I ignored this for years and was amazed at the difference it makes.

Spasms or cramping in your legs is unlikely to be cured by eating more. It sounds like you just did a harder ride than you're used to.

As far as eating I aim for 250 Cals/hr for 4+ hr rides. For <3 hrs, provided you're adequately fueled at the start, you shouldn't need much other than water. If you're going to be riding again the next day it's probably better to just get used to consuming ~250 Cals/hr as you need to replace the carbs you burn in any case and the more you consume while riding the less you need to eat afterwards. This is important if you are finishing your ride in the evening and need to ride in the morning.

This plus...

I have attended presentations put on by a friend who is a dietician / cyclist, road races and does RAAM. She has designed diets for RAAM teams. How much and what one eats is very dependent on the intensity and duration. For RAAM, she designs diets that increase metabolic rate so that the cyclist burns more fat which we have a lot of versus glycogen which is in limited supply and takes time to replenish.

She is also a proponent of doing bonk training to raise metabolic rate. This is a ride done in the morning on an empty stomach and there is no refueling on the bike just water with the ride limited to two hours. There is more than enough glycogen stored in the muscles and liver for that duration. I have done these but find I am not as strong but there is no problem completing the ride.

I think eating and hydration is very athlete specific and requires experimentation to see what works.

To me, there is no point in doing bonk training. It simply doesn't make sense. There is almost no adaptation that I can see in depleting the liver and muscles of glycogen, other than making the rider weaker both in body and in brain function, and being able to recognise when s/he is about to bonk.

Brain function is something that is often left out of the refuelling equation.

RAAM is a completely different animal to a 50-mile B+ grade hammerfest.

I think I tend to bonk earlier than I used to since I started back. I don't know if it's whether my base isn't restored to what it used to be (or some semblance) or if it's just because I'm getting older. As it is now I've got to eat much earlier than I did before though.

I'm also finding it necessary to consume more potassium than I ever used to have to do.

I am a slow rider (average speed ride over 20 miles 12.5 mph), 215 Lbs 5'11" the best fuel I have found for rides up to 50 miles is about 30 minutes before leave eat 3 or 4 hardboiled eggs, 1 yoke toss the rest, get dressed, prep bike. Then just before I leave, eat a tums, 1 banana and about 1/4 to 1/3 cantaloupe or big slice of watermelon. I take 2 water bottles, and a gel and cliffs bar. I will need more water in this weather, and maybe a gatoraid with extra water. That is the best fuel for me I have found so far.

Rod

Depends on the ride- the weather and the individual. Water and I reckon on at least one bottle of water--1/2 litre- per hour and that is even on cold rides. Hard physical or in hot weather and this will be upped to at least 1 litre per hour. I may put supplements in the water or take them in other ways. On the food side I do like to have a breakfast and If I don't I have a light one at around the 2 hour mark on the pleasure rides. But on say a 4 hour or longer ride I have plenty of snacks with me. I start taking them after about 1 hour and just a bit at a time. IF I am out for a long ride then around the 6 hour mark I have something like a Sandwich to give something more substantial.

kcal. A food calorie is 1kcal or one Cal with a capital C. A physicist's calorie is 1000th of this and written as cal with a small c. But in the context in which it is discussed in these forums, there isn't much danger of confusion.

Forums or fora?

Unless you're carb-loading before an event. I beleive that going for complete glycogen-depletion does result in the liver and muscles to react by taking up more glycogen than usual thereafter, thus allowing one to start with greater reserves, whereas simply eating more pasta the day before, without glycogen depletion, really makes no difference. Can't remember where I read this, I'll try to find it.

Yes, the other description for it is carb loading, but not the sort most people associate with the term (as you point out).

As far as I am aware, the technique has virtually been dispensed with by anyone knowing what they are doing. In all his posting on various forums over the years, Homeyba has never mentioned carbo loading or bonk training as a technique he has used in participating in various RAAMs.

In the context of a 67 year old taking part in a B+ grade 50-mile ride, it is virtually a pointless exercise, especially with the regimen that is involved. In the context of a RAAM, its use would only be for the first couple of hours of what is a multi-day event.

I certainly agree with the first sentence. The second, I'm less certain. The issue with having bigger glycogen reserves isn't just about the first couple of hours, is it? As we discussed earlier, one can't replace calories as fast as one burns them - if one is riding at RAAM speeds one is probably chewing through 600-800 kcal per hour, and one can only absorb 250 or so. Now, most of the calories burned will come direct from fat stores, so the issue is whether one's intake of 250kcal per hour of carbs is enough to replace the relatively small amount of glycogen consumed. It will vary with intensity, of course, but in a true endurance event it might be pretty close, and one's glycogen reserves may be depleted only very gradually. So starting with a bigger reservoir may allow one to ride at a slightly higher intensity throughout and still make it to the finish.

The theory seems plausible, anyway. Whether it can be managed practically is another matter.

At 62 I personally think I'll pass on bonk training every chance I get :)

The Furnace 508 site has some articles with guidance on fueling. Its reflective of the Hammer site posted above by "chasm". There is no one size fits all but, the information is very good in general.

When I get in trouble on a longer ride it's all about my quads cramping if I try to stand. At least it has been to this point. Having experienced the bonk I know that is not what is happening to me. As I think this out and consider all the responses here I'm realizing that when this has occurred it seems to be as a result of the combination of a longer ride and significant climbing. This last ride included two climbs of steep grade and length. Both were at least a mile long. That may not seem so terrible to some but I am hovering around 190 lbs and that is 12 lbs over what I was when I got out of Basic Training in 1969 and what I consider my best weight to be. My theory has been that hauling that extra weight over significant climbing at age 67 is just wearing out my legs. Combined with a lack of proper fueling. I don't know if that's true but I do know I can ride the flats with any of my clubs B+ riders and some A riders and feel just fine. I also recover extremely well after climbs. But, climbing over time just leaves my legs burned out. And, I know I am not really good at staying of top of drinking in particular. somehow I just tend to forget to do it and when I do I feel bloated.

Cramping is sometimes mysterious but I think the consensus is that it is usually brought on simply by overuse, and that certainly seems to be the case here. It may have nothing whatever to do with your nutrition, though making sure you get some electrolytes inside you may help delay it.

The other thing to think about is climbing technique. If it's your quads that are suffering on the climbs, try sitting a little more upright and further back to engage your glutes and hamstrings a bit more. Might give the quads a bit of respite.

What grades and what gears and what cadence are you using, bruce?

Not sure of the grades. I will check with a friend who does know. Went back and checked the length of the two climbs. One is a mile long and steep all the way. The other is 2.3 mi. close to as steep with a short flat in the middle. I recently switched from a standard crankset with 14X25 gearing to a compact crankset. I was using my lowest gearing and couldn't get out of the 50's for rpms. I did not change the cogs. I think the total elevation for the 42.7 mi. was around 2700 ft. Not really that much. Then again I really don't know a lot about what constitutes a lot of elevation on rides. The only other time I ran into the same issue with my quads was on a Memorial Day ride of 65 mi. with 4,000 ft of elevation.

Definitely going to try to be aware of this. I do have a tendency to lean into the bars unless I tell myself to get upright and sit back. Thanks for the reminder.

Yes, you are pushing at a low cadence on the climbs and that can cause cramping.

It becomes a balancing act with gearing -- suffering through relatively short periods during the ride, and having the broad range of gears you need for later on.

You almost sound disappointed that you don't think your leg strength is up to scratch. But really, in my book, you are doing a fine job running with the big dogs in the A rides. More riding and maybe some weight work on the quads with lunges and squats might be useful.

FWIW in general riding, by which I mean riding on the flats without working real hard, I am usually in the 90-100 rpm range. I can get up to 110 rpm before I start to feel choppy.