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2 Cyclists Killed; One Dragged, One On MUP

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2 Cyclists Killed; One Dragged, One On MUP

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Old 07-06-13, 07:25 AM
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2 Cyclists Killed; One Dragged, One On MUP

On the 4th of July my wife and I headed to Mackinaw City for festivities. Going through a village we saw multiple EMT squads at work where the bike path crossed a street in this lazy village (Oden, Mi). A 58yr old man rode through the posted stop sign and was hit by a car. DOA.

The next morning I'm watching local news to hear of a young lady in Traverse City was riding through a residential area and hit from behind by a pickup, dragged for a block and left to die in an alley before neighbors heard the commotion. She died at the hospital. Police said the lady was riding on the right with flow and in parking area out of traffic, everything a good rider would do.

Rough holiday. They havent found the driver as of last night.
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Old 07-06-13, 08:48 AM
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That sucks.

I just came back from a group ride. We had two rides go down and the riders were hurt.... pretty bad. We were going down a small hill, when one lost control. he went over the bars. His head slammed the pavement so hard, I could hear it. His helmet definitely saved him.The rider behind him was trying to to avoid him and he went ass over end. I was two riders behind them and was lucky that I was not involved. I saw him losing it and I was able to stop in time. Both were taken away ambulance.

I was really looking forward to this ride. It didn't quite turn out like I expected.
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Old 07-06-13, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by OldsCOOL View Post
Police said the lady was riding on the right with flow and in parking area out of traffic, everything a good rider would do. ...
I beg to differ. Riding in the parking area out of traffic greatly increases one's chances of not being seen by either overtaking or oncoming motorists. It can also require dangerous zigzag and merge operations. I generally prefer to take the lane, moving aside to permit someone to overtake me when and only when I can safely do so, or when I can take the parking area for an entire block and safely use it as a surrogate bike lane. The other thing that really helps is to have and to use a mirror.

Having said all that, I in no way blame the cyclist. I am always looking for lessons learned and ways to improve my own safety on the road. I have what I consider to be a healthy, objective fear of traffic. I hope the police find the motorist and the judge has the political will to throw the book at him/her. Hit-and-run drivers have an interesting way of courageously turning themselves in the next day, after their blood alcohol content has subsided.
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Old 07-06-13, 10:49 AM
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The 4th of July is a bad time for inebriated drivers, at least around here. The dragging incident sounds like a classic case of DWI.
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Old 07-06-13, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by David Bierbaum View Post
The 4th of July is a bad time for inebriated drivers, at least around here. The dragging incident sounds like a classic case of DWI.
That's my guess.
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Old 07-06-13, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by David Bierbaum View Post
The 4th of July is a bad time for inebriated drivers, at least around here. The dragging incident sounds like a classic case of DWI.
This isn't cycling related, but DWI related. On Thursday, there was a 9 car pileup, here in Florida, on the I-75 southbound lanes. Seven of the drivers involved in the collisions that closed the interstate for hours, were arrested for DWI. It's definitely a problem and most likely the reason the driver of the truck didn't stop. However, if caught, he will be facing much more than a DWI charge.
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Old 07-06-13, 01:06 PM
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It amazes me the people are still driving drunk. Now they are on prescription meds too!
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Old 07-06-13, 01:30 PM
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Sad,sad thing this is. I hope they catch the guy and charge him with vehicular manslaughter and fleeing an accident scene.

Mark Shuman
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Old 07-06-13, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by lenny866 View Post
It amazes me the people are still driving drunk. Now they are on prescription meds too!
Add talking and texting, and surfing the internet while driving.
Hope they catch the coward.
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Old 07-06-13, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by John E View Post
I beg to differ. Riding in the parking area out of traffic greatly increases one's chances of not being seen by either overtaking or oncoming motorists. It can also require dangerous zigzag and merge operations. I generally prefer to take the lane, moving aside to permit someone to overtake me when and only when I can safely do so, or when I can take the parking area for an entire block and safely use it as a surrogate bike lane. The other thing that really helps is to have and to use a mirror.
My experience, also, leads me to believe that hugging the right can be dangerous. Apart from the junk and cracks and stones, it seems to me that when a car passes me they always cut it close, too close. (Here in Maine they are supposed to allow 3 ft).
At the same time if I take up a part of the lane they give me a wide berth. Of course there is always the chance that some nut will take me out but it does seem to be safer to create a presence on the road and when safe, give a signal that it is okay to pass. Another trick I use is when approaching an intersection with a car right behind me I signal that I am going straight. Too many times cars will speed up and cut one off to make a right turn in front of the cyclist.

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Old 07-06-13, 02:26 PM
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Call me HARSH, but I don't CARE what the driver's excuses may be; driving drunk? KNOW better. Distracted? GROW up and WAKE up.

I'm tired of drivers' excuses; he needs to burn.
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Old 07-06-13, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
Call me HARSH, but I don't CARE what the driver's excuses may be; driving drunk? KNOW better. Distracted? GROW up and WAKE up.

I'm tired of drivers' excuses; he needs to burn.
Agreed! Record will show the cyclist is without fault and dead. The driver killed an innocent cyclist doing her best to stay out of the way and still got hit.
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Old 07-06-13, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by leob1 View Post
Add talking and texting, and surfing the internet while driving.
Hope they catch the coward.
It is a scary world if you dwell on it. I will pass along any updates.
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Old 07-06-13, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by John_V View Post
This isn't cycling related, but DWI related. On Thursday, there was a 9 car pileup, here in Florida, on the I-75 southbound lanes. Seven of the drivers involved in the collisions that closed the interstate for hours, were arrested for DWI. It's definitely a problem and most likely the reason the driver of the truck didn't stop. However, if caught, he will be facing much more than a DWI charge.
I still think, driving drunk, should cost you your licence, period. I would allow them after the first offence to apply for a learners permit, after 5 years. After the second offence, you have to wait 10 years, after the third offence, the court would suggest that they not attempt to get a licence again. Driving without a licence, because it was taken away, should be subject to a fine of not less then 10% of your annual income plus the confiscation of the vehicle.

One of the problems, for many years, being intoxicated was an excuse, while driving, it should not be. You kill someone drunk driving, that should (legally) be the same as intentionally taking your car and running someone over. in other words, murder.
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Old 07-06-13, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by John E View Post
I beg to differ. Riding in the parking area out of traffic greatly increases one's chances of not being seen by either overtaking or oncoming motorists. It can also require dangerous zigzag and merge operations. I generally prefer to take the lane, moving aside to permit someone to overtake me when and only when I can safely do so, or when I can take the parking area for an entire block and safely use it as a surrogate bike lane. The other thing that really helps is to have and to use a mirror.
That didn't take long at all.

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Old 07-06-13, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by OldsCOOL View Post
On the 4th of July my wife and I headed to Mackinaw City for festivities. Going through a village we saw multiple EMT squads at work where the bike path crossed a street in this lazy village (Oden, Mi). A 58yr old man rode through the posted stop sign and was hit by a car. DOA.

The next morning I'm watching local news to hear of a young lady in Traverse City was riding through a residential area and hit from behind by a pickup, dragged for a block and left to die in an alley before neighbors heard the commotion. She died at the hospital. Police said the lady was riding on the right with flow and in parking area out of traffic, everything a good rider would do.

Rough holiday. They havent found the driver as of last night.
What a terrible way to start your holiday weekend. It must be difficult to carry on with your plans in the midst of those two horrific accidents. I hope you were able to find some inner peace.

My heart goes out also to the families of the two cyclists.
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Old 07-06-13, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by cranky old dude View Post
What a terrible way to start your holiday weekend. It must be difficult to carry on with your plans in the midst of those two horrific accidents. I hope you were able to find some inner peace.

My heart goes out also to the families of the two cyclists.
Thanx, one of those moments where you say a prayer on the fly and try to catch the news later for details. The locals on that street must have been rattled.
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Old 07-06-13, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by David Bierbaum View Post
The 4th of July is a bad time for inebriated drivers, at least around here. The dragging incident sounds like a classic case of DWI.
Or inebriated cyclists. The most serious biking accident I had was in 1979 when I had taken my bike to go to the liquor store for more beer, being in no shape to drive. Never did THAT again.
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Old 07-06-13, 07:56 PM
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Been riding around streets and roads of Italy for the last week and bicycles are so much a part of the culture here that I feel much safer than in the US. Car drivers are pretty patient and respectful here.
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Old 07-06-13, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Wogster View Post
I still think, driving drunk, should cost you your licence, period. I would allow them after the first offence to apply for a learners permit, after 5 years. After the second offence, you have to wait 10 years, after the third offence, the court would suggest that they not attempt to get a licence again. Driving without a licence, because it was taken away, should be subject to a fine of not less then 10% of your annual income plus the confiscation of the vehicle.

One of the problems, for many years, being intoxicated was an excuse, while driving, it should not be. You kill someone drunk driving, that should (legally) be the same as intentionally taking your car and running someone over. in other words, murder.
I tend to agree with you there, but one of the biggest issues with DWI is that the laws are really weak when it comes to enforcing them. They seem cut and dry on the surface but there are lots of loopholes put in them by the attorneys in the legislature that create them. Then you have the judges that interpret the laws to mean what they want, precedence is set and that's that. If the ruling is in favor of the drunk driver, the next time a similar incident arrises, the attorney uses the precedence set in a previous case and the drunk driver gets off. A lot of the lawmakers and judges seem to forget that in most of the states, a driver's license is still a privilege and not a right. If you get yours taken away and caught driving without one, it should cost you dearly. Unfortunately, the courts don't agree with me on that one either.
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Old 07-06-13, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Wogster View Post
I still think, driving drunk, should cost you your licence, period. I would allow them after the first offence to apply for a learners permit, after 5 years. After the second offence, you have to wait 10 years, after the third offence, the court would suggest that they not attempt to get a licence again. Driving without a licence, because it was taken away, should be subject to a fine of not less then 10% of your annual income plus the confiscation of the vehicle.

One of the problems, for many years, being intoxicated was an excuse, while driving, it should not be. You kill someone drunk driving, that should (legally) be the same as intentionally taking your car and running someone over. in other words, murder.
The problem with taking the license of DUI convictees is that they drive anyway ... without a license. Not that I disagree that their license should be taken away ... it should.

In California, a DUI convictee signs a document informing them that driving DUI can result in the death of another, and they will be subject to a second degree murder charge if the drive DUI again and someone is killed. It's called a Watson warning, and its a good idea.
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Old 07-07-13, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by John_V View Post
I tend to agree with you there, but one of the biggest issues with DWI is that the laws are really weak when it comes to enforcing them. They seem cut and dry on the surface but there are lots of loopholes put in them by the attorneys in the legislature that create them. Then you have the judges that interpret the laws to mean what they want, precedence is set and that's that. If the ruling is in favor of the drunk driver, the next time a similar incident arrises, the attorney uses the precedence set in a previous case and the drunk driver gets off. A lot of the lawmakers and judges seem to forget that in most of the states, a driver's license is still a privilege and not a right. If you get yours taken away and caught driving without one, it should cost you dearly. Unfortunately, the courts don't agree with me on that one either.
I think this will change over the next 25 years or so, not by eliminating drunk driving, but driving in general. Oil is over $100/bbl again and one estimate I heard will be between $125/bbl and $150/bbl by the end of this year. That means even American's could be looking at $5-$6/gallon for gas. An estimate from 2009 that we could see oil at $200/bbl before the end of 2015, becomes again possible, and that would mean gas for $8/gallon.

This would be negative/positive for the economy, at $200/bbl the cost of shipping materials to Asia, manufacturing goods in Asia and shipping them to North America, becomes equal to the cost of manufacturing the same good in North America. It's negative in the massive amount of cost increase, it's positive in that, companies would be building new domestic factories and hiring new workers. I expect with $8/gallon gas, the popularity of a 2 wheel, muscle powered vehicle would rise exponentially.
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Old 07-07-13, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Wogster View Post
I think this will change over the next 25 years or so, not by eliminating drunk driving, but driving in general. Oil is over $100/bbl again and one estimate I heard will be between $125/bbl and $150/bbl by the end of this year. That means even American's could be looking at $5-$6/gallon for gas. An estimate from 2009 that we could see oil at $200/bbl before the end of 2015, becomes again possible, and that would mean gas for $8/gallon.

This would be negative/positive for the economy, at $200/bbl the cost of shipping materials to Asia, manufacturing goods in Asia and shipping them to North America, becomes equal to the cost of manufacturing the same good in North America. It's negative in the massive amount of cost increase, it's positive in that, companies would be building new domestic factories and hiring new workers. I expect with $8/gallon gas, the popularity of a 2 wheel, muscle powered vehicle would rise exponentially.
There you go getting my hopes up.

Now who's going to pay for my therapy when 2016 arrives and we still have cheap gas?
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Old 07-07-13, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Wogster View Post
I expect with $8/gallon gas, the popularity of a 2 wheel, muscle powered vehicle would rise exponentially.
Only if that sort of increase happens quickly. If you give people a chance to slowly acclimate they most certainly won't switch to cycling. Especially if their commute is over 10 to 15 miles. They will switch to public transportation first, if available.

Americans are too addicted to their cars. IMO.
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Old 07-08-13, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
There you go getting my hopes up.

Now who's going to pay for my therapy when 2016 arrives and we still have cheap gas?
Nothing is guaranteed.....
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