surfjimc

Sounds like Future Bike B is the way to go. You could probably have the cassette swapped out at purchase to get 32 for little or nothing, and you would have everything you want. My touring bike 48-36-26 with an 11-34 cassette giving me a 20" low and a 118" high. I can go anywhere with it I want to go with a full load. Other tourists prefer at least a 17" gear. You should be able to get by on the hills with a 34-32 (30").

stapfam

Going through a similar problem but my hills may be different to yours. Plenty of them that are not long but an average of 12% for a mile is the norm and can be steeper.

Two different set ups and I had a bike with compact 50/34 crank and a 12/27 cassette. Easily ridable on local hills for rides up to 50 miles but longer or hillier rides were wearing me out. The other bike was set up with a triple crank so forget that as it is not the system you are using. But staying on the bike with 34/27 as the lowest gear- with me on it and that gearing it was fine but a few rides had me puffing a bit by the end (Age set in) I got a Tiagra 12/30 cassette and it worked. In fact worked so well that I rarely used the 30t but it was there if I needed it.

This did not involve any new parts such as rear derailleurs or and other changes to the bike and if the bike is being bought from new can be done by the shop before delivery and they should do this as a matter of course at a nominal or Free charge.

TSL has it right in that the gearing on the bike does not matter too much unless you are riding with far too high a gear. I started with MTB's and lowest gear was 22/32. I used that on the hills and it was hard. Next was a road bike with the lowest gear of 30/26. No easier but the hills were taken a bit faster. Next and 34/27 as the lowest gear and still hard but faster still. Doesn't matter what your lowest gear is--If the hill is steep enough you will use it and it will be hard. If it isn't- you are not on a hill- just a slope.

BikeOnly

I am beginning to really like the idea of buying bike B and having the dealer do a switch out putting in a MTB derailleur and 36T cassette.

Is such a cassette wider than the road bike cassette? In other words, is there a potential problem with fit between the chainstays or on the axle?

jimmuller 

OP, I think you need to find a different cardiologist. Anyone over 65 should go easy w.r.t. exertion???

It's a good point that you can spin a gear too low. Of course having one on your bike doesn't mean you have to use it for every hill. The trick is to learn to choose the right gear for the hill. If you find you never ever use a gear, high or low, and don't anticipate riding in a totally different type of terrain, then you might consider getting ride of it. (For example, I don't carry the high gears some people do, since I'm not interested in keeping up with a paceline.)

rdtompki

Certainly SRAM and Shimano equipped bikes will offer the opportunity to fit larger cassettes. It's almost certain you'll have to change the chain (longer), RD (greater chain wrap) and, of course, the cassette. Talk to your LBS about the cost. If you're buying a high-end bike he might not charge anything, a $500 bike purchase (nothing wrong with $500 bikes BTW), the swap will probably cost you something.

BluesDawg

Rear spacing will not come into play. MTB and road cassettes fit on the same freehubs. The difference is the number of teeth on the cogs, not the spacing. MTBs have wider spaced axles than road bikes, but this is not related to the cassettes.

dbg

On my recent trip we had lots of steep climbs. I took a super lightweight bike with a compact double giving me 34-30 as the lowest gear. My normal lightweight tourer has 28-28 and I found it annoyingly low --like I was spinning and going nowhere. I guess it's all personal opinion. Sheldon used to describe gear inches into the low teens which, to me, seems like "slower than just walking." I found I really liked the 29 gear inch on my trip as a good bottom. I will admit to hopping off at a hill in Galena, IL that seemed more like a tilted wall than a hill (turned out our maps were in error and it was a useless climb, BTW).

I have no problem walking on super steep pitches. I have had back issues in the past. When the climb starts to feel like a hundred lifts a minute (pulling up on the handlebars to effect a good power stroke on the pedals), I hop off to protect the back. I find that walking shifts the exertion from the back and quads to the hammies. But this is all just my opinion and situation.

Bill Kapaun

The width is the same. Just the tooth counts differ.

MB's have 135mm OLD spacing vs RB 130mm, but that's just a 5mm spacer added to the NDS of the MB.

fietsbob

An 8 and above speed cassette is roughly the same width, Cogs, are just packed in tighter, as the numbers go Up.



I have different bike choices, One, my Brompton, has a planetary 2 speed crank... if the chain-ring is 50t,
kicking it into low range is as if a 20t were there. .... and a 3 speed hub.

with 2 planetary gears the switch is fast, over big jumps that would be real balky to do with a derailleur shifting.

3rd to 4th a double shift in hub and crank .. 6 speeds , no overlap.

billydonn

Without telling you my life story or giving you mental advice: Get the bike you like and change the RD and cassette. Shimano Deore XT mountain bike parts will work or Shimano RD and SRAM 11-32 cassette. This is not hard to do.

Barrettscv 

Climbing is a complex subject. Most of the road bikes at retail are designed to look like the TDF stuff and the drivetrain is best used by younger, fit riders. Unless you have an expert level strength to weight ratio, you may want to customize the drivetrain on your new bike.

I think your 1:1 ratio is a good target. I have 26/27 (smallest chainring/biggest cog) and 26/30 on my modern road bikes and a 22/32 on my touring bike. My Vintage bikes have a 30/28 and 28/24.

One of the key advantages to a deep gearing range is that it allows to cyclist to stay seated and spin at a moderate cadence on very steep hills. This technique provides steady progress and works well for older and heavier riders like me and also works just as well for riders like Chris Froome and other TDF champions. It's certainly easier to maintain control of a cyclist heart rate while spinning at a moderately cadence and at a slower pace.

I can stand and mash on the pedals in a higher gear and at a faster speed on shorter hills, but longer hills require some strategy and moderation. For that reason alone, I have a 1.16 to 0.6875 chainring to cog ratio as my lowest gear on most of my bikes.

BikeOnly

The bike shop mechanic (bike B) called me back today. He talked to the Shimano rep about swapping out the cassette for an MTB cassette. The rep told him that starting in 2013 the Shimano MTB cassettes have a different pull than the road bike cassettes. So we would be talking about switching out the shifters also and maybe some other stuff.

This makes the project expensive. The bike shop is not keen on doing this and I am not either. I told him to take the hold off the bike. Too bad because it was a bike I like marked 22% off at a convenient and capable dealer.

On the other hand I had a great one-hour ride on my flat bar bike early this morning. Great weather for August in the south - cloud cover, 75F, overcast with some drizzle. Felt like there was no need for a new bike.

I am putting off buying a new bike to do some traveling and visit some family.

Thanks for all the great help.

BluesDawg

I respectfully suggest that you or your mechanic misunderstood the facts. The cassette spacing did not change (cassettes do not have "pull"). What changed was the rear derailleur pull ratio on the 10 speed Dynasis MTB groups is different from the pull ratio on 10 speed road rear derailleurs. The cassette spacing did not change. The new rear derailleurs take a different amount of cable pull to produce the same amount of derailleur movement. They did this to make their 10 speed MTB groups stay in tune as well as the SRAM groups do. By the same token, Shimano and SRAM shifters and derailleurs won't work with each other, but their cassettes will work with either. This is why you need to get a 9 speed derailleur to match your 10 speed road shifters and 10 speed Shimano or SRAM cassettes.

Retro Grouch 

That's what I think too.

You're 65. How many more bicycles do you think that you'll buy in your lifetime? I'd buy the bike that I liked best considering everything but the gearing and find somebody who could re-gear it to meet your personal needs. It's not that hard to do.

10 Wheels

I run a 12/30 cassette with a 50/34 crank set. Did not have to change anything.

stapfam

Many of us have done the conversion to either a 30t cassette that did not require any further parts or to an MTB cassette that also involved a change or rear derailleur.

After that information coming from that shop I would be wary but it sounds as though Bike "B" is the one you want. Easy enough to get the rear cassette changed to a Tiagra which has transformed many a bike to be able to do hills but I would go back to the shop and suggest they follow BD's suggestion.

BluesDawg

BTW, Shimano now also makes an Ultegra level 12-30 cassette, not just the heavier Tiagra.

10 Wheels

Found the Tiagra on sale for $21....got two of them.

BikeOnly

The link to the rear derailleur you provided says, "Compatible with all Shimano 9-speed HG cassettes, 9-speed mountain shifters and 9-speed chains."

So a 9-speed cassette and chain is needed with that derailleur?

Can you recommend a Shimano cassette with 36T on biggest cog? Bike A has a 32T 10-speed cassette. If I can't get to 36T on Bike B, I may as well go with A. Or backup and punt.

BluesDawg

No, you can use 10 speed.

Shimano really made things confusing when they made their 10 speed MTB setups incompatible with anything else. The Shimano MTB Rear derailleurs made for 9 speed systems are compatible with 10 speed Shimano road shifters and any Shimano or SRAM 10 speed cassettes. (They will also work with 7, 8 or 9 speed.)

Shimano 10 speed Dynasys MTB rear derailleurs only work with Shimano 10 speed Dynasys shifters.

You can use any Shimano or SRAM 10 speed cassette with Shimano 10 speed road shifters and Shimano 10 speed road rear derailleur or Shimano 9 speed MTB rear derailleur. Pick your price level. SRAM offers more options with 12-36 instead of 11-36.

I realize this is all very confusing, by I didn't design it, I just learned how to use it.

BikeOnly

If I call the mechanic again he is only going to remember the discussion he had with the Shimano rep in which it was concluded starting in 2013 Shimano MTB derailleurs required a different pull than Shimano RB shifters deliver. (Yes, I originally made a misstatement in an earlier post by relating pull to cassette instead of derailleur.)

If I buy the bike as is and use a friend's son (race bike mechanic) to change out the rear, it looks approximately like:

Shimano SGS Top normal Shadow Rear Derailleur - $90



[B]SRAM PG1070 10-Speed Cassette - $95



SRAM PC1000 (?) SERIES CHAIN - $25

Labor - $40

Total approximately $250

So I would spend most of the discount they are offering.

And I rarely feel good about anything, from appendectomies to zooplasty, that I pay list price for.

phread59

Ditch the PC 1000 chain. I know it will be 60$ but the PC 1071 chain is a great chain. I just put one on my regeared Rubaix. I did use that cassette (PC1070). I like it very well indeed. I'm running all SRAM on that bike and the X9 draileur works fantastic.

I also have an old Trek 4900 MTB. I put a Simano HG cassette and a PC871 chain on it. The chain works exceptional. The rest of the gear is Deore. The X71 series chains are well worth the cost. I'll keep on buying them from now on.

Good luck in you're search. BTW I only gained 4 teeth in the rear. I went from 34/32 to 34/36. Not a big jump. But made all the difference in the world. I'm no longer killing myself trying to keep up on club rides pounding too much gear. I feel stronger at the end of the ride. And I can go further now. Well worth doing.

Mark Shuman

ericm979

I feel that KMC chains work better than Sram. And Shimano cassettes also work better than Sram. They shift better and are quieter. I use them on my Sram bike.

Retro Grouch 

I'm the opposite. I rarely feel good about anything unless it's exactly what I think that I want. My reasoning is that in a year I will have forgotten what I did with the money that I saved but I'll still have the bike. Might as well make sure it's the bike that I want.

ericm979

I tried a Sram 11-32 XG-1099 and Red Wifli derailleur this morning. I'm not happy with it. There's no adjutsment that doesn't make excess noise in some gears (a problem I have with other Sram cassettes, only this one is worse). If I back pedal while in the big ring and a larger cog the chain derails. Even putting too much tension on the cable to bias the derailleur to the large cogs doesn't fix that.

If you try a 11-32 cassette I suggest a Shimano one.