Velo Fellow

As the honored original poster of this thread, I never questioned the performance of carbon, just the aesthetics as makers seem to depart increasingly from the "classic" look that I prefer. it's trivial, but I also don't much care for the "hollow" sound they make on bad road surfaces. Trivial to some people? Sure, probably most people. Oh well.

Incidentally, I have 3 sweetly lugged bikes but, to be honest, when riding them I never look down and admire the lug work..... but still, I feel good about it at random moments.

big john

I have a Gunnar Sport from 2006 which has over 30,000 miles on it. It is a great riding frame, but i have a cf fork on it.
At the time I ordered it, the custom option was only $300 extra, so a nice custom frame doesn't have to cost a lot. A nice cf frame doesn't have to cost a lot, either.
I also have a Seven Axoim ti frame with cf fork and it rides a lot like the Cannondale CAAD5 I used to have, in other words, stiff!

I'm a member of a road bike club of over 500 members, have been since 1989, and most of the members ride full cf bikes. Most of them do not race and they seem to enjoy riding those cf bikes just fine. When I show up on a metal bike, I'm the exception.

big john

What do you think about the look of a Calfee?

rebel1916

Don't bother wondering. The people have spoken. In the motorcycle world I am sorta like you retro types here. I like sport bikes where you can see the motor. (I ain't completely like you guys. I still want modern tech.) With a few exceptions they all sell like crap. But there are still people on the message boards who clamor for each new Euro model naked bike to be brought to the US. And every now and then, the big japanese companies do. And inevitably they sell somewhere between terrible and very niche. Except Ducatis. But they're a niche unto themselves.

Mobile 155

I am not disagreeing with either you or Velo that steel has a place. I am simply saying consumer tastes change and can be seen objectively. Not that you aren't objective only that far too many ascribe some kind of magic quality to steel and even Ti that for the more less traditional among us can't be measured. So when a new rider walks into a LBS and sees two bikes what is the first thing they do? Admit it they pick the bike up off of the floor. That can be measured and if a nice steel lugged bike is sitting next to a CF and even a Aluminum machine the customer doesn't give one whit if a skilled craftsman made the machine or a bunch of elves. They will be attracted to the lighter machine and may even start the conversation on why is Bike A lighter than bike B and why is bike C heavier than either of the other two? And that is in my opinion why the major dealers don't have more steel bikes and why steel is now more or less relegated to custom and semi-custom companies.

Is any of this a bad thing? I can't see why because sooner or later as you say the old farts (me included) will be dead and the dealers will still have to find customers. The cycling community as a whole embraced CF and even Aluminum for a reason, whatever that reason was, price or performance. Old School still has a place just as it does with Motorcycles and trucks and maybe even machinery. That being said I know people that love old records, my nephew is one. But try as he might he has a much harder time getting a quality record player than he does getting a good DVD or Blue Ray. That is just how it is and it is just as unlikely that the few will reverse that trend. Touring bikes and Brevet bikes like Wedding dresses will still be needed, and made specially or at least in limited quantities.

Velo Fellow

Don't see many Calfee's (in fact, any) around here.... pretty rural. LBS's carry the usual Specialized, Cannondale, Giant, Trek lines of bikes. Calfee tries to do tubes, but joins them together with some kinda strange looking "lugs". Not as pretty as my Rivendell, to me. Again, their performance is not in question.

Zinger

You can still get yourself a Royal Enfield but they're made in India. I would hope they have a better electrical system than Lucas used to make.

tony2v

Here's my custom Alchemy Xanthus made with Enve carbon tubing. I chose this model because of the classic look. I also have a Moots Compact and a 1975 Albert Eisentraut road bike.

Dchiefransom

No carbon bike in my garage, but I wouldn't mind one. I've currently got steel and aluminum.

Carbon:

Dchiefransom

and a steel model:

Wogster

That classic look is because of technology, before recent advances in welding technology like TIG welding, it was quite difficult to weld thin tubing like that used in higher end bicycles, without burn through. Brazing (a form of soldering really) the tubes into lugs, was easier because it used a metal that melts at a lower temperature to hold the joints together. CF can be made all in one piece, so they don't need that classic look, it allows different designs to be used.

rekmeyata

I want a carbon fiber casket so it won't rot like wood, rust away like steel, or corrode away like aluminium, and won't be subject to grave diggers looking for titanium to sell to the recyclers!

Velo Fellow

Thank you, Wogster! Human nature being what it is, I suppose we draw lines of resistance against change and it's underlying threat-- mortality. I prefer 57 Chevies, lugged steel bikes, and hamburgers with ketchup not salsa. Someday, my son may draw his line by preferring good old carbon to ...... well, whatever is the latest thing bike engineers have come up with then.

There's just no accounting for Taste. Or Olde Fartes.

rydabent

Lets not get too excited here. Right now the industry is trying to sell carbon and advertising it heavily. But----------what will they be pushing in 5 or 10 years? There is always new technology comming down the pike. Maybe the nano technology will give us a one pound frame that is 5 times stronger than todays carbon frames. You can bet your bippy that the industry will drop carbon as a totally has been, and fully jump on to the new frame tech, and of course charge ever more for it. Save you pennies boyz.

rekmeyata

this is true, but I'm not so sure about 5 to 10 years, maybe 15 to 20, but regardless will it be better? Will it last longer? less fatigue issues, not subject to sudden failure? cost too much to even bother for the average rider? There are all these questions and more that need to be settled before the new technology gets out. Of course what will the UCI do concerning their far outdated rule for 14.99 pound limit, if they stay steadfast in that rule then the new material probably won't matter and never come to market.

VNA

What a futile or pointless thread!

rekmeyata

Yes, isn't it great!

Wogster

Or in 20 years when oil is $500/bbl, it will be too expensive to make CF, which is essentially a petroleum product, and they will be making bicycles out of metal again....

rebel1916

I can't wait!

Mobile 155

And how will they do that without coal fired mills? In 20 years most of the steel is real riders will be dead and no one will remember how to make a metal bike? And without the products we get from petroleum our food production will be down, the delivery system will be broken and the doomsday people will be shooting cyclists as varmints. As long as we are pontificating.

Wogster

I specifically said metal, which is not necessarily steel, it could be steel, it could be another metal, it could even be an alloy we have never seen before. I expect though, that if people are shooting cyclists, it will be to steal the bicycle, because those will be the price of a car, and cars, well at $45/gallon, expect that they will be abandoned at the side of the road, because nearly everyone will be paid the minimum wage of $12/hr....

Zinger

Oh I thought about not posting this alright......nah

Mobile 155

What no air cars and moving sidewalks? No synthetic humans? Blade Runner was just
a movie? I would have responded quicker except I haven't taught my smart phone to post by voice. Will look into Dragon.

fietsbob

read where Royal Enfield made a Diesel Motorcycle engine at one time ..

GeorgeLeslie

I have both CF and steel. I love the feel of my CF EPX 303 (named Carbon Electra) on any road. It is lighter, faster and more responsive, but I Love the look of my CA 1990's 7-speed Fuji Ace (named Steely Dan). It is a workhorse that has never failed me. It is the best of both worlds.