Very interesting article in the newest Cycling Plus magazine about "not a club" groups being organized in the UK. Seems the large organized club type rides are turning some off with the matched kit, overbearing leaders and highly structured nature some rides can be required to follow by clubs. They are using Strava and other social media to get like minded riders together without any of the rules that develop around the clubs. Interesting in that they are using methods to get the ride leaders insured by the various British Cycling set ups, without being a chartered club. The big thing is having orderly lines, not riding three abreast and such and knowing the basic hand signals for group rides as well as the voice warnings used. A few of these informal groups are pretty large for something not an organized club, what way will this go?

Bill

Maybe it's an East Coast or Philly thing, but the last four organized rides I did, there was way more ego present than I need. There was a lot of looking at other people's rides and making faces. There were several groups, each in matching kit, making plans about how to beat _____ (fill in the blank). I understand wanting a PB, but don't really appreciate those who want to turn a century, not advertised as a race, into a race. On the road, there were some really stupid moves resulting in two accidents in the four rides by riders determined to get around other riders. I'll probably attend other organized rides if asked to do so by friends. But, honestly they are not my favorite.

To me, the risk of most big, organized rides exceeds the reward. I firmly believe that the safest number to ride with is 5-7 people of comparable abilities. More riders, and it's difficult for motorized vehicles to pass, fewer, and vehicles just try to ignore the fact that your'e there.

Big fund raising rides just have too many inexperienced riders. Big Fondos (which are more of a race), with strong riders, suffer from competitive group dynamics that cause riders to ignore risks that would not normally be acceptable.

The KOM thing is one thing they addressed in the CP article, the need to overcome the desire to always beat ___________ in the section or for the ride spoils things for many. Also, the safety aspect when someone is tied up in concentrating on getting or retaking that KOM was noted, with the accidents we've read about or seen where a rider or a group is out, ignoring signs and such, a bad light gets cast on groups out for a ride. They stressed that many motorist in the UK see a group riding with matching kit, in a pace line or double echelon, and it is assumed they will blow through stops and ride recklessly. This is one reason I don't like Strava as much as I probably could, it amazes me how many group rides get set up or turn in to a "race" to achieve the notariety of getting your name as the being No. 1 on a segment.

The number in the rides, as Terex mentions was also noted, they recommended limiting the size so motorist don't become intimidated or impatient with passing or turning across the group.

I did a lot of group rides in the late 70's and early 80's with our club, even did a year as a Road Captain. The racing actions were just flat forbidden in our club rides. We required everyone to obey signs, lights and basic road rules as well as common courtesy. When things went towards blowing through lights or signs I was out of the group riding. It was like trying to hold back the ocean with a bucket of beach sand. I'm a club member here, but they have only two groups for their rides, an 18mph average and a 20mph average, it is supposed to be no drop, but you are going out the back if you loose even the 18mph speed. Its doable but not for long for me, I am just not able so I don't want to trouble the club or the rides. So now I ride alone unless my wife wants to ride some, she is more in to jazzercize than riding now.

Bill

I prefer solo. I bike for me. If I want to do figure 8's I do them. It's a good time to work things out and to be in the moment. For the most part - I am not interested in meeting people. Actually, the thought of riding 50 miles and only seeing cattle - would be a blessing to me. My rides are 30-45 miles x 3 per week. I average maybe 13-14 mph. This is a good thread.

I can't tell you how many times I had to catch up with club friends when I stopped at a light or didn't take a risk riding across traffic. Group dynamics are an amazing psychological test. You're either strong willed enough to know when to back off, or you're increasing risk that you otherwise wouldn't take. This is my point re increased risk associated with big Rondo rides.

There was a fine article written about a tragic loss of life in a group skiing accident at Stevens Pass, WA. None of the skiers, individually, would probably have taken the risk, but as a group they ignored a lot of indications that were clearly obvious - kind of like stop signs on the road. The Avalanche That Killed Three Skiers at Stevens Pass | Snow Sports | OutsideOnline.com

Yes, group pressure, or the unwillingness to be "chicken" is an amazingly powerful force and serious contributor to accidents. In the cave diving world, where divers work in small teams, dependent on each other for safety, they have a saying. "Any diver can call (end) any dive at any time for any reason, or for no reason". This allows the first diver who has a legitimate problem or simply bad vibes to end the dive and return the divers (all MUST come with him) without stigma, or fear of criticism.

However bicycling, doesn't have that kind of team dependency, and the diver's mantra would only be valuable when riding as a tight group or paceline. Otherwise each cyclist is free to make his own decision about things like speed on a descent or intersections. Personally I sort split the difference, and will break the flow and not blindly follow through intersections, yet I will (and usually do) cross against the light, which I treat as a Yield (with extreme prejudice) sign.

Years ago, I stopped riding on a weekly pickup ride specifically because of the groups bad habit of closely and blindly following the leaders through intersections. Serious accidents weren't rare, so even though I could make my own decisions at intersections, I felt the best one was to not join this rag tag bunch in the first place.

There are lots of organized rides around the South Coast of Massachusetts. Some big clubs, some with local small bike clubs. The big club the "Narragansett Bay Wheelmen" offer four levels on each Sunday ride. 20-25 MPH average, 17-20, 14-17, and casual speed. The club usually offers three mileage options and at the end of the ride lots of people hang around to socialize and meet others and usually find riders who fit their style. We seek out each other on subsequent rides. The club also arrows the ride which is a bonus because if you really enjoy the route, you can ride it again either solo or with a friend. If you prefer solo, look up your local bike club online and find out if they arrow a route that interests you.

The smaller clubs are usually bike activist groups like Fall River Ma and Newport R.I. that work with cities and town to make them more bike friendly, and lead small group rides that tend to be slower paced on back roads and bike paths. These organized rides by the smaller groups can take you to places you would never know were around and how good they are for bike riding. I call them "secret places".

The point is that weather you like, dislike or are neutral to group rides, they do provide a really useful service to all of us, weather it be mapping true and tested safe routes, or advocating to make riding more accessible and safer for everyone.

Loner here. In my advancing curmudgeon-hood I don't have the patience to deal with all the rules, posers and self appointed/important leaders. They remind me of the student council meetings in middle school sometimes. Insurance?!? Waivers?!? Helmets?!? Newbie pile-ups?!? One time while my wife and I were riding on a MUP there was an organized ride that we weren't in and 4 times I was told to get a helmet. Bike nazis, I don't care for them. I ride to get away from that stuff not join it. And I realize that the problem is with me, not them, so I stay away every chance I get.

I've run into similar situations, including when riding on public roads, that organized rides also happen to be using. Many years ago, I had a few teeshirts printed up for myself and a few select friends. On the back they said "I'm not with them" in large bold print. I might have to print a new batch.

Wow, big subject as the OP opens up a big (but good!) can of worms. Okay, I like all rides, well, pretty much.

My commutes to work and back are all solo; very rarely see other cyclists (commuters or not) on my routes. That's Mon./Wed./Fri.

On Tues./Thur. I do club evening rides and the numbers vary from as few as three to as many at 16 riders. Even at that, it's still a small group.

On Saturdays I usually do some kind of "organized" ride, either organized by a bunch of friends or a Pay-for-It "event" organized ride. Most times this involves several thousand feet of climbing but unlike the OP I've carried on lots of good converstations at 6-8 mph on 5%-8% grades that seem to go on forever. On descents at 25-40mph . . . not so much. Sometimes I just listen (Biker395 tells great stories as we climb along) . . .

Sociality (is that a word?) wise, Commute=zero. Club rides are very social, mentoring new riders off the back, conversing in the groupetto, encouraging riders on the climbs, it's all good. Plus we go out to dinner after the Tues./Thur. rides and that's always fun too.

Even on big rides like the recently ridden Hemet Double Century (see other post) I had some great conversations with other riders (including az_cyclist) along the way, either JRA (just riding along) or at the checkpoints, the after ride dinner, etc. Even at the registration pre-ride. I enjoy it all :) !

Sundays are usually recovery rides, sometimes with the club (OCRR), with my wife in the local Whittier Hills, or (like last Sunday, after the double on Saturday) by myself on local roads. Which is fine too.

Regarding the "mostly" above, my wife and I decided not to ride the Solvang Century this year since the registration price went up so much (from $65.00 to $125.00, if I recall correctly) and while it is a good ride, it's not that good! Okay, you got a post-ride dinner this year you had to pay extra for last year but hey, I don't eat $50.00 dinners!.

So, with rare exceptions as noted, it's all good! We are fortunate to have a very supportive double-century community here, lots of centuries, Gran Fondo rides and club rides for all ages, speeds and abilities, road, mountain, fixed gear, etc. Plus, of course, pretty darn nice weather year round.

Rick / OCRR

Your comment reminded of this demotivational poster:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=375233

I wasn't thrilled with the Tour de Cure last year. I know it was mostly the fault of the weather, but I'd have never started a century that day if it was a solo ride.

The group aspect - I got away from the group pretty soon and did enjoy that part of the solo riding.

Nah, I've seen the ego thing in Texas, the MidWest, and California. I've had people heft my bike to see how heavy it is. I've considered putting a water bottle full of lead shot in one of the cages until juuuust before the ride starts and making sure I slip it back in that afterwards. I like riding solo and I like organized rides, but I can do without the attitude. There are people faster than me and people slower than me. All I care about is people out there riding.

Don't like the crowded roads of a sold out charity event. What's $70-100 get for food on an organized ride, nothing to really write home about. I'd be eating pretty dang well if I just spent that money on my own.

OP here. Just by way of clarification: my wife and I rode numerous organized rides, primarily 100K, on our tandem and enjoyed the experience/suffering immensely. The clubs and other organizations within 200 miles of the San Francisco bay area put on simply great events for the most part. I also enjoy organized rides on my single and riding the single affords me the opportunity to tackle efforts that would not be possible on the tandem.

While I have no interest in riding with a large group or in a paceline, some rides by nature of terrain don't provide much opportunity for ad hoc interaction while on the bike. OTOH, one can do a long ride and have no concern about food and "drink" as part of an organized event. I'm doing the Sequoia 100K later this summer and that's a ride that I probably wouldn't do solo. Lightning might strike and I'll have a climbing encounter with a like soul!

I stopped trying to do group rides long ago. I want to get outdoors and enjoy my bike. I don't need to keep up with anyone, just go fast enough for me. To me, going as fast as you can to reach a destination is similar to how it feels in a car. You just want to get there as quickly as possible.

Don't care for organized anything.

Exactly! That's why I'm usually a loner or once in awhile I'm out with a couple of like minded friends. Cycling, for me, is about exploring and having a good time and not about how many miles I put under the wheels.

For many folks an organized ride is about going someplace different, someplace they might not drive to just to take a solo ride. It's not necessarily about going fast or trying to finish in less than X hours. In the 5 years my wife an I rode the tandem we experienced back roads in California: Marin, Sonoma, Palm Springs (well, not exactly back roads), Borrego Springs (definitely back roads). Chico, San Luis Obispo, etc. We did a tandem rally in Oregon and the El Tour de Tuscon. We would still be doing many of these rides were we able. All these rides can be done self-supported at the right time of year, but depending on where, exactly, the ride takes place you're really on your own. So, organized rides are a care-free way to experience someplace different. For me, personally, it isn't quite as much fun on the single, but I'm going to work at finding like-minded, and like ability riding partners.

I take blood thinners so I usually only do organized rides with club members (generally retired racers I have ridden with for years). I did do a metric century charity ride this AM with another rider I have ridden with for years. Cost here was $82 so I don't do many of them. During the week my companion is "Strava" which keeps boredom away.

I ride solo, with small groups, single day organized events and multi-day organized tours. And I enjoy them all for different reasons.

Alone, it is peaceful and reflective unless I choose to do some intervals. I ride alone about three times a week.

With small groups, whether a club ride, with friends, or with my son, it's social but serious cycling. Pace is usually faster, etc. However we usually have a "no drop understanding". I ride with small groups also about three times a week.

With the larger groups, it's social (I learned a long time ago to never draft off someone you don't know--as a cyclist). And I just enjoy the ride, never trying to finish in the first bunch or to do a personal best (my PB times were 30+ years ago). I just enjoy the scenery, the other riders, and being out on my bike. With one or two multi-day tours and about a half dozen one day events, I'll get in about a 1,000 miles in large, organized rides annually.

After all the miles I have ridden in my 69 years ( and five by-passes), I have nothing to prove; I just enjoy the ride.

I find riding with anyone always makes the ride more enjoyable. If I'm faster, hanging back a bit to allow us to stay grouped up is a blessing. If I'm slower, I'm challenged to keep up. I have two sibs that are my most frequent companions, and usually one of the three of us is feeling stronger on any given day, so we take turns in the role.

I also hate riding on public roads - I'm really paranoid about getting rear-ended by some guy more interested in texting with his buddies than paying attention to what's around him. I don't know whether it's actually safer, and maybe it's just in my head, but it seems like being part of a large group makes the drivers a bit more alert, and tend to give the riders - even when riding single file - a wider berth.

In Michigan, the organized rides are usually pretty reasonable, and a small price to pay for not having to lug water and nutrition on a longer ride. My favorite ride (so far) is the Ride Around Torch which is only $30 ($25 if you sign up early), and includes the SAG service, good SAG stops (most with live music!) and a great buffet at the end. If I go solo, I'm usually able to find someone moving at about my speed that I can join and share the experience with, but my first choice is to get at least one other sucker, er, friend to go along with me.

The organized rides also have a double-edged incentive - you have an excuse to take a break every so often when a food/SAG stop comes up, and you're also encouraged to keep at it on a long ride 'cause that next food/SAG stop is only another 10 miles! :)

It's pretty obvious from the posts that cycling appeals to introverts. This also coincides with all of the threads about waving - many cyclists are loners and don't want to pay attention to others.

Group rides and organized events are fun to me. 100 miles (or 62 or whatever) is boring all by yourself. If I don't start out with a group I know, I quickly find people to ride with. The time and miles go by so much easier.

But I also enjoy some time along on my evening weekday or weekend rides. Sometimes when my head is filled with problems, a few miles on the road makes things much more tolerable.

I enjoy all types of rides as well. As Rick@OCCR mentioned, it is great to meet up with folks on a ride. I regularly ride with two different clubs in north Phoenix. The club rides of one have two groups, one that averages 17-18 mph rolling, and an A ride that is 18-19+ rolling average. The other club has rides that ave 15-16 mph rolling, and we are also starting B rides for that club that ave in the 14 mph range. When I ride with the 15-16 mph group, I dont try to push the average speed higher ( I am usually the ride leader for that group, so will also help slower riders).
I also like some of my solo rides. where I can ride harder or easier if I wish.