I know what you mean! People ask me "When you ride in the road shouldn't you ride against traffic so the cars can see you first?" I always say "I rather have the car see me first then having to almost get killed"(Talking from experience ). Also I agree with you on other none cycling people in our lanes. I gets me mad when I see a motorcycle in the bike lines just to bet traffic. I do not know if its just me with that, but still I think that's not right.

I had it explained to me by a former police officer who set up a city's bike patrol and who is now an expert plaintiff's witness for bike/car accidents, that when a vehicle is to make a right turn and there is a bike lane, the vehicle is to pull into the bike lane and then turn right from a position blocking the bike lane. Makes sense when you think about it, it prevent right hooks. I'm not sure this is what you were referring to, but I thought it interesting. Most drivers try and stay clear of the bike lane when they turn.

On the idea that people would ride against traffic, I'm always amazed that people who can drive a car proficiently, and who understand that a bike is a vehicle too, completely forget anything they learned about rules of the road when you put them on a bike.

J.

What I mean is, I see people on motorcycles (And rarely cars)use the bike line from where it begins *Ontop of a hill* to the end *At an intersection* when ever there is traffic (and sometimes when there's no traffic). It is not a case where that have to sit in the bike lane for a good reason, Its just so they can get to the set of lights and be the first inline for when it turns green.

Joggers I have no problem with. OTOH it's the skateboarders who tend to weave around that can cause me fits.

scott s.
.

Yes. Salmoning on sidewalks is even more dangerous since a lot of motorists don't even check for traffic in either direction until they are across the sidewalk. What I really find annoying is salmon in bike lanes clearly marked with direction of travel.

I frequently ride the Old Pacific Coast Highway north of San Diego. This strip has a very high density of cyclists, joggers, and walkers on weekends. The joggers often have no choice than to use the bike lane to avoid the strollers and dog walkers. I only get annoyed at the all too frequent groups running two to five abreast.

Jeezus, I almost ran down a salmon rider myself just today pulling out of the parking lot of my local hardware store......I wagged my finger at her. Her face was red and she almost went down tying to avoid me. I hope she has the sense to remember the downside of that now.

I will sometimes ride against traffic - on a wide shoulder or in a bike lane only - if it keeps me upwind and out of the exhaust fumes.

I'd rather get hit from behind and push thrown forward into possibly nothing rather than get hit head on and into a 4,000 pound object :p Maybe that is just me!

i've been hit/grazed from behind several times,:(
i still fail to see why seeing oncoming traffic is not safer having the chance to dodge the dodge. Who is just as likely to plow you under flowing with traffic

Numbers don't lie. Collisions between cyclists and MV's are far more frequent if the cyclist is salmoning. Sure, you may be able to see and avoid a car coming straight at you, but it's the ones coming out of side streets and driveways that produce the most carnage.

Well if you come upon me riding on the correct side of the street, you're going to have to either dodge or swerve into oncoming traffic to get around... and even if you make it safely I'm going to swear at you while I go by.

You have to think of this like a driver, drivers know that if they are turning right, they need to scan the sidewalk to the right, but all vehicle traffic is coming from the left. So, they look left, scan the sidewalk to the right, then look left again. If your going against traffic, then drivers will not see you, because they are not looking for you. This is why in places where there are contra-flow bike lanes, there will be big caution signs warning drivers to expect cyclists coming from the "wrong" direction.

If your concerned about getting hit from behind, I recommend three small investments. First is a bicycle mirror, there are two general styles, one is the glasses/helmet mount, the other is the bar mount. If you have more then one bicycle, then the helmet mount will allow you to use one mirror for several different bikes. Second is a decent rear light that has a flashing mode. Drivers have it ingrained from the start to watch for flashing lights. I noticed after running the rear light in flashing mode, and I have a cheap crappy one, during the day, that drivers tend to give better clearance.
Third is one of those day-glo orange/lime coloured construction vests. They are made of a plastic mesh so they breathe well, and drivers are also expected to look for them. They usually have retro-reflective stripes on them, and as soon as headlights hit it, those stripes light up.

Total investment for all three, is about $50. That's pretty cheap insurance in my books.

Because you are approaching every single intersection, every single driveway and every single parking lot exit from a direction that other users aren't expecting.

i do not pass in front of a car if eye contact is not made... i've been hit too many times, nor do i ride on roads with much traffic. Say what you will but i will continue to ride on the shoulder facing the flow. People will leave their lane and strike another.... i want some chance before impact

i'might return the favor.... i thought i might get a response like this

And once it's made, the person driving out of the intersection will probably be expecting you to stop for them and be looking the other way for traffic so they can scoot on out there. I really don't see it being worth the risk just because you're insecure about what you can't see behind you, besides being illegal.

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In your case the mirror is a good idea. All kinds of them out there.

I should probably get one myself.

And yeah if you got in my way riding salmon on my side of a narrow bike lane and I had to move into traffic to avoid you, and you were a grown man who should know better, I'd probably just spit on you.....If I were younger.

I kind of doubt that's entirely true because they're all looking the opposite way.

I almost never fail to make eye contact, and that's because I am coming from the direction they are looking in.

There are very few exceptions where I will salmon, ride sidewalks or both. These are special circumstances in very familiar settings. I know the risks and manage them. There is one driveway approaching my workplace that I ride the sidewalk in front of. It is totally blind, shielded by a commercial building, and I come to a track stand stop and check around the corner before proceeding. I don't like riding that slow, so usually stick to riding on the street, with traffic.

Being able to see approaching cars, from behind is why I suggested a bicycle mirror.... The whole idea with traffic is that if everyone follows a uniform set of rules, then as a driver or rider you can easily predict what someone is going to do. By riding against traffic, it's impossible to predict what your going to do, which makes avoidance almost impossible. That likely has a lot to do with why you have had more then the average number of collisions.

Coming upon you in a bike lane, I will hold my ground, forcing you out into the car traffic, and yell at you to get on the right side of the road. I've met folks who would kick out at you and knock you over as they passed by......

Deservingly so.

Eye contact is not a guarantee. I was recently coming down a hill on my commute home. The car stopped on a side street (he had stop sign) appeared to look right at me. I was certain of eye contact. He proceeded directly into my path. I locked up the rear and dropped the bike (amazingly stayed on my feet) and watched him miss me by a few feet. (I have a bright headlight and was wearing super bright day-glow yellow jacket. It was day time)

I remember as a child how odd it seemed at first to ride with traffic. It seemed counter intuitive to my young mind. But after a short time, I realized it's really a much safer manner in which to ride. I stopped riding after my teens and didn't return for 30 years, but the early lessons were ingrained and it would now totally freak me out to try and ride against traffic. It's frightening to think about doing it.

It is definitely illegal - every state vehicle code I've ever seen.
It is considered dangerous by virtually all cycling safety advocates.
And it is rude to anyone you meet who has to go out of his way to accommodate your behavior.

Where are all the stories of people who were salmoning for safety, and avoided being head-on'ed by a vehicle by diverting themselves into the ditch?

That's my tactic as well, I hadn't thought of hanging it from the chin strap. You might want to try the Storm Whistle, that sucker is LOUD and gets people's attention damned quick.

[QUOTE=Wogster;1678958
Coming upon you in a bike lane, I will hold my ground, forcing you out into the car traffic, and yell at you to get on the right side of the road. I've met folks who would kick out at you and knock you over as they passed by......[/QUOTE]
Ok i expected some disagreement when i posted, but suggesting you would assult me ? WTF ! i did not expect such brow beating by so many who have an in tolerance to opinions differing from theirs.... i will not post on the 50+ forum again.... i ride against traffic when i feel it is unsafe to be approached from the back.... this comes from years of experiences, i've read and listened to bicycle safety articles and understand what they say. But having been hit more than once i've learned to stay out of harms way..... if you have a problem with that it is your problem. Bye