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-   -   What's the latest on helmets? (https://www.bikeforums.net/fifty-plus-50/997312-whats-latest-helmets.html)

Digital Gee 03-09-15 01:25 PM

What's the latest on helmets?
 
I know, I know. The topic has probably been beaten to death. Feel free to skip it if you want!

Getting back into cycling after a 2-3 year absence, and I have a hunch I should replace my helmet. Even that isn't for certain - how do you know it's time to replace one? But assuming I do, what's the latest on helmets? I seem to recall that they were all pretty much equal so price wasn't an issue - the expensive ones weren't better than the cheaper models. Is that true?

Just looking for general helmet ideas and suggestions si vous plez. :)

(That was French. Mrs. Jones loves when I speak French.)

DiabloScott 03-09-15 01:45 PM

The expensive ones tend to have better adjustments and such... not necessarily better protection.

Replace if cracked, crumbly foam, or frayed straps.

MinnMan 03-09-15 02:30 PM

There are these new helmets on the market with so-called MIPS technology. The idea, if I understand it, is that they limit the effects of rotation on impact, as this is supposed to be an important contribution to concussions. So, perhaps this is a "safer" helmet? I don't want to start one of those "are helmets safer" threads (and if one starts I may ask the mods to close the thread - been there, done that too many times), but does anybody know anything about this new class of helmets?

johnny99 03-09-15 02:43 PM

One big difference between current helmets and helmets from a few years ago is that there are a lot more lightweight (200 gram) helmets on the market now. Typical low-end helmets are more like 300 grams. 100 grams doesn't sound like much, but my head says the lighter helmets are much more comfortable.

Other differences between cheap and expensive helmets are better size and fit options and better ventilation as prices increase, but this hasn't changed much over the last several years.

zonatandem 03-09-15 05:20 PM

From 20-bucks to 300 bucks . . .
If they are ANSI approved they'll do the trick.
Looks, fit, weight, cosmetics . . .

qcpmsame 03-09-15 05:24 PM

I just replaced my Specialized Prospero after 2-1/2 years of use. Not due to the time in use, I cracked it in a crash on Jan 2. Glad that I had it on when my head hit the pavement from looking at the scrape marks, and the fact it is cracked all the way through on the right front quadrant. Picked up a new Specialized, the Echelon model, feels good in use, no complaints about it so far.

It seems that every issue of a road cycling magazine has a group of new helmets they are reviewing. Right now they are specializing the helmets, with aero, light weight, vent or no vent, built in lights for commuters, different suspension systems. Bell is coming back after a while as a low end brand, and most of the different clothing and bicycle makers have a helmet line. Lots to choose from now, Deege, best of luck on your decision.

Bill

MinnMan 03-09-15 06:42 PM


Originally Posted by zonatandem (Post 17616586)
From 20-bucks to 300 bucks . . .
If they are ANSI approved they'll do the trick.
Looks, fit, weight, cosmetics . . .

Red helmets are faster.

mcmoose 03-09-15 07:01 PM

^^^ True, but I don't want my helmet to go faster than the rest of me.

MRT2 03-09-15 07:02 PM

I like white helmets.

Digital Gee 03-09-15 07:04 PM

Thanks everybody! :)

Cyclist0084 03-09-15 07:25 PM


Originally Posted by MinnMan (Post 17616801)
Red helmets are faster.

Which color is the slowest then? I will be getting a new helmet soon, and I want to make sure I don't get the slowest.

:D

mcmoose 03-09-15 07:27 PM

But seriously...
Some designers are trying to develop alternative certifications to ANSI (arguing that ANSI only considers head-first impacts), but I don't believe any of those alternatives have been verified and adopted.
Thus, as zonatandem said, given that the helmet has ANSI certification, you pay extra for style, weight, and ventilation (the latter two of which really do affect riding comfort).

MinnMan 03-09-15 07:36 PM


Originally Posted by mcmoose (Post 17616924)
But seriously...
Some designers are trying to develop alternative certifications to ANSI (arguing that ANSI only considers head-first impacts), but I don't believe any of those alternatives have been verified and adopted.
Thus, as zonatandem said, given that the helmet has ANSI certification, you pay extra for style, weight, and ventilation (the latter two of which really do affect riding comfort).

I have no reason to doubt this.

When I was in Australia, you would not be allowed to ride in sponsored events unless your helmet had an Australian Standard sticker in it. ANSI helmets without the sticker were not accepted. Aussies told me that it is because the Australian standard is more stringent than ANSI. But I bought myself a cheap $25 Australian helmet just for said events, and I have no reason to think that it was any more or less safe. It was just a standard practice followed because of the way the local insurance companies wrote their policies, I suppose.

As I wrote before, there are claims that these new MIPS helmets are safer for certain kinds of impacts, and I don't know if this is true. And of course, I don't hope to find out by any first-hand experience. But I need a new helmet anyway, so if anybody knows more, I'm curious.

big john 03-09-15 09:50 PM


Originally Posted by MinnMan (Post 17616123)
There are these new helmets on the market with so-called MIPS

MIPS, or "slip plane" is the latest design feature to show up on helmets for skateboarders, rock climbers, mtb'ers, and now road riders. It's getting cheaper as more products become available, and more road lids are starting to appear.

I've seen a couple videos on how it's supposed to help prevent rotational energy from reaching the brain, and it sounds interesting.

qcpmsame 03-10-15 05:44 AM

ANSI and CPSC here in the states, I look for a Snell Labs certification, also. I prefer a manufacturer that tests beyond minimums when its my head involved. I like the MIPS feature, that Big John mentions above, everything I have read about that feature seems to be sound biomedical and engineering stuff.

Bill

MinnMan 03-10-15 06:36 AM


Originally Posted by qcpmsame (Post 17617787)
ANSI and CPSC here in the states, I look for a Snell Labs certification, also. I prefer a manufacturer that tests beyond minimums when its my head involved. I like the MIPS feature, that Big John mentions above, everything I have read about that feature seems to be sound biomedical and engineering stuff.

Bill

Interesting. I am not really familiar with the Snell certification, so I just looked it up. Snell Foundation - certified helmets Apparently, the only major brand with Snell certified bicycle helmets is Specialized. Is that because the others haven't bothered to submit theirs for certification? Specialized helmets don't strike me as particularly, ummm, special.

qcpmsame 03-10-15 07:08 AM

I suspect its a cost thing for most helmet manufacturers, since the most seem to just want the minimum level that is necessary to sell here in the states. Some people choose believe that CPSC and/or ANSI is as far as its necessary to go, and anything else is superfluous to the level of safety of a helmet. I learned about the Snell Foundation in 1972, when I began racing motocross, very few motorcycle and automobile helmet manufacturers used/use the Snell level certification since it goes beyond the minimum level of safety testing, and adds cost to the product development. Peter Snell was killed in a racing accident, as I understand the background, and his family wanted to make a more thorough test available.

Specialized helmets aren't anything "special", as far as I know, they fit me well, are comfortable, and are very well made. The Prospero I had saved me from some bad head rash, a big headache, and even worse most likely, judging from its damage. I do like the reflective treatment on the white colourway helmets, that they have, mine have both had this.

I won't get preachy about helmets, it starts a real war at times, some choose to feel that its a waste, and that the use makes you careless in your riding. To each their own. Besides, I have hijacked Gary's thread, my apologies for doing that


Bill

khutch 03-10-15 07:08 AM

It has been three or four years since I looked at helmet testing and effectiveness and even then I of course relied on internet sources so, grain of salt. I don't believe the basic testing standards have changed much although it sounds like Australia and perhaps others are improving their standards. At the time I last looked there was basically no difference in protection levels, cheap helmets might have fewer features, expensive helmets had more features and used expensive materials to give the same protection with larger cooling vents, less weight, etc. And no one really knew what caused concussions, only that no helmet of the time seemed very effective at preventing them. At one time concussions were regarded with the same level of concern as a paper cut. But now we realize that they are serious and cumulative and so the good news is that a lot of research is being done in a lot of sports to better understand what causes them and how they can be prevented.

The MIPS system might be something to consider. The research I saw last time indicated that neither linear acceleration (addressed by traditional helmets) nor rotational acceleration (addressed by no helmet at that time) alone was a very good predictor of concussion rates. The cause of concussions is more complex than that and at the time, at least, no one knew what combination of factors might eventually give a good prediction of concussion rates. Once you can predict the rate you become confident that you understand the issue and then you can design protective gear to address it. Based on what I read back then a helmet that addresses both linear and rotational acceleration was likely to be a step in the right direction. So if there is a MIPS helmet in your budget range I would consider MIPS.

Linear acceleration alone is still a good thing to be worried about. Shattered skulls are not a good result of a crash and they can be prevented by reducing the linear acceleration. The helmet standards we have were put in place to address this issue and it is likely that they have either saved my life or prevented me from spending my final years as a vegetable. I had a bad crash a few years ago while wearing a traditional helmet. I got a concussion so bad that it wiped my memory of the accident clean and I had some neurological problems for a few weeks after the crash. But I am alive and fully functional today and I doubt that without the humble bicycle helmet that we currently have that I would be able to say that. Or anything.

Retro Grouch 03-10-15 07:39 AM

I wear one (most of the time) because I've had my bell rung a few times. If it ever happens again, I don't want to have to explain to the various medical providers and to my wife why I didn't have one on. That said, I have serious reservations about how effective bicycle helmets are in reducing concussions. Mine all occurred while I was wearing a helmet. My worst was a zero MPH fall while trying to get a recumbent tandem launched. If a safety device can't protect from that kind of accident, how beneficial can it be?

MinnMan 03-10-15 07:51 AM


Originally Posted by Retro Grouch (Post 17617994)
I wear one (most of the time) because I've had my bell rung a few times. If it ever happens again, I don't want to have to explain to the various medical providers and to my wife why I didn't have one on. That said, I have serious reservations about how effective bicycle helmets are in reducing concussions. Mine all occurred while I was wearing a helmet. My worst was a zero MPH fall while trying to get a recumbent tandem launched. If a safety device can't protect from that kind of accident, how beneficial can it be?

Helmets are an imperfect solution to a tough problem, and most of us wear them.

I did some online shopping for MIPS helmets. I found two that are kind of close to my style, but the Giro, at $110, is kind of ugly, and the sporty Lazer that comes in RED is $270. Yow.

khutch 03-10-15 11:11 AM


Originally Posted by Retro Grouch (Post 17617994)
My worst was a zero MPH fall while trying to get a recumbent tandem launched. If a safety device can't protect from that kind of accident, how beneficial can it be?

You must be really susceptible to concussions to have gotten one from a "fall" that close to the ground! In any event bicycle helmets to date were designed to prevent skull fractures and any protection they offer against concussions is a freebie. Hopefully MIPS and future generations of helmets will do better.


Originally Posted by MinnMan (Post 17618017)
Helmets are an imperfect solution to a tough problem, and most of us wear them.

I did some online shopping for MIPS helmets. I found two that are kind of close to my style, but the Giro, at $110, is kind of ugly, and the sporty Lazer that comes in RED is $270. Yow.

I've made only a cursory search but here is one under $100, not red, and probably not your style but it says there is hope.

JohnJ80 03-10-15 11:39 AM


Originally Posted by MinnMan (Post 17616123)
There are these new helmets on the market with so-called MIPS technology. The idea, if I understand it, is that they limit the effects of rotation on impact, as this is supposed to be an important contribution to concussions. So, perhaps this is a "safer" helmet? I don't want to start one of those "are helmets safer" threads (and if one starts I may ask the mods to close the thread - been there, done that too many times), but does anybody know anything about this new class of helmets?

This is the most important new thing in helmets.

I spent a lot of time studying this after my son wound up with a severe traumatic brain injury from a skiing accident. I also spent time talking with some of the manufacturers that were incorporating this technology and how it works. It certainly can't hurt and I think it adds a significant benefit. Even a small reduction in the acceleration the brain experiences can pay off with significant injury reductions or even eliminate the brain injury. Believe me, anytime you can do that, it's worth the money. Been there, done that.

We've switched the entire family over to MIPS skiing helmets and we'll complete that effort with cycling helmets this year now that there are more choices.

With respect to the cost, it's common for even a mild concussion to cause issues for 6 months or more that can be quite debilitating - sensitivity to light/sound, cognitive impairment, impulse control, visual impairment, motor skills. In my son's case, it was in the hospital for 3 weeks in a coma, almost 6 weeks in inpatient treatment, and 9 months in outpatient treatment. He was a university student and had to take a full year off and then ease back into it for another semester. All told, the whole event was about 18 months to get back to normal. Deficits still remain and will be life long. When you look at it that way, the marginal cost difference from the cheapest to the best helmet is really kind of immaterial.


J.

John E 03-10-15 11:49 AM

As with shoes, shorts, and saddles, make sure it fits your head. For me, this absolutely means a Giro Xen. I'll have to see what they have in newer technology with the same internal size and shape.

JohnJ80 03-10-15 11:53 AM


Originally Posted by khutch (Post 17618624)
You must be really susceptible to concussions to have gotten one from a "fall" that close to the ground! In any event bicycle helmets to date were designed to prevent skull fractures and any protection they offer against concussions is a freebie. Hopefully MIPS and future generations of helmets will do better.



I've made only a cursory search but here is one under $100, not red, and probably not your style but it says there is hope.

Most helmets won't do much to mitigate a TBI/Concussion. Your brain still gets bounced around inside your skull. Depending on the acceleration that the brain experiences determines how much injury there is. "Shaken Baby Syndrome" is what happens regardless of having a helmet on or not. MIPS, a new technology out now seeks to mitigate this and reduce the this kind of damage and injury.

What most helmets do well - and is worthy of the protection - is do a good job at protecting against penetrating injuries and skull fractures. Skull fractures or penetrations of the skull really up the severity of an injury.

As far as susceptibility to concussion - there is some variance person to person but it also depends where the damage is as to how it manifests. There are many instances of people falling down on pavement and dying from a bleed in the brain. It doesn't take a whole lot to cause a problem. You just have to have a rapid enough movement of the head to subject the brain to enough acceleration/de-acceleration. Furthermore, someone who has experienced a prior concussion/TBI can be much more susceptible and the signs/symptoms can be much more dramatic. Bottom line - it really doesn't take much.


J.

qcpmsame 03-10-15 11:57 AM

A lot of study on head injuries, and concussions, has been done in the military aviation communities, and related industry. They had several deaths in training flights where almost no injury to the head of the aviator, or to their helmet, was noted after a crash with a fatality. The flight surgeons and aviation physiologist found that even a low speed head contact, very short distances, could do enough to the brain to kill, or result in a T.B.I. According to the investigators they concluded that if the body and head stopped suddenly, and even a slight movement of the brain within the skull into the bone structure resulted death of severe injuries may well occur.

Kind of a luck of the draw, as to which individual has the specific physiology to allow this to happen, as said above being susceptible to a concussion. We weren't allowed to park our butts in a seat of an aircraft without our personal, fitted flight helmet on our noggins. You figure that a pilot of flight officer, that is strapped in by a 5 point, aviation rated harness wouldn't move enough to hit their heads, just the head hitting against the helmet can do the job, apparently.

If anyone has newer findings I would appreciate knowing what is really current on concussions and helmets, in any setting. My January 2 crash gave me a concussion, destroyed the helmet and I don't remember hitting the pavement, getting up or moving off of the road. Came to standing on the side, looking around, thinking that my workout was messed up for that afternoon and how should I ride now so as to get the miles I had planned. Thankfully, one of the residents of the street that know me came along and stopped me, took me home, and checked on me later that afternoon.

Bill


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