Shoe Fit Problem
 

After about 9 mos of riding I finally decided to use the bike shoes I got back when I bought the bike (road bike) The shoes are Lake MX331 with the SPD cleats. I went with Lake because they were one of the few shoes I could find in widths online. These are 42.5 wides. My feet are wide with a high instep and high arch.

So I started out with cleats in the middle under the ball of the foot. This worked well for the right foot, but I had to do some moving around of the cleat for the left. The left is better now but after 5-10 miles I start to feel a lot of pressure on the outside edge from about the ball of the pinky toe to the heel. It's not numb or tingling. Just pressure, but it gets uncomfortable.

I assume that means that my pedal stroke is pushing the left foot outwards? I tried sliding the cleat to the inside - to move the shoe out - but there wasn't much extra sliding room. Maybe 1/8"-1/4" . It didn't help the problem any.

So I am working under the assumption the left foot needs to somehow move further out. I am already using pedal extensions (9/16" I think). Maybe the left needs a slightly longer one?

Any other thoughts?

Take notice of whether your knee tracks straight up and down or does it tend to flop inward toward the top tube or outward. It may be a cleat shim would fix the discomfort.

If I were you I'd sort out an insole for arch support I liked, then bring the insole with me, while I Tried on bike shoes in person in the shops.

maybe you need a pedal with more float, like speedplay

By float do you mean what I usually describe as slop. The foot can move around more on the pedal? Interesting idea.

At first I was riding with knees out. I raised the seat and eventually added the pedal extensions. That seemed to make the shin bone stroke more up & down. I'll take a closer look again. Or get someone to watch.

Float = capability of pedal to permit a limited rotation of cleat/shoe/foot around an imaginary axis perpendicular to the plane of the pedal surface.

In other words, it lets you move heel in and out naturally as you pedal (if that's natural for your body), without releasing cleat from pedal. Speedplay has the most float of any pedal (last time I checked). Check Speedplay website, I'm sure they can describe this key design feature better than me.

Thanks. I started looking at them yesterday. I like the idea of having a little movement.

I had a similar problem that took me several years to solve. I had a consistent pain on the outside of my left foot and, to some extent, on the outside of my right foot. I tried different shoes finally settling on the Sidi's in their Megas (wide). But that still didn't solve it. Wedges under the cleat helped. Finally I did a pedal fit with a good speedplay dealer with their fit kit that has different length spindles. Turns out I need a wider q factor that is solvable with longer spindle pedals from speedplay. Completely solved the problem - no issues. Wedges came out from the cleats and I'm good to go.

Speedplay has a new mtb pedal out that has float like their zero road pedals. They tell me that they are going to offer different spindle length pedals there too.

Work on this by first getting good insoles - I like the Specialized ones that you can get to match your arch height. You can't really go after the other issues until your foot is stable in the shoe.

J.

Doesn't a pedal extension accomplish the same thing? Extension screws into crank, pedal screws into extension 9/16" further out. I went with extensions after noticing my knees sticking out. That really helped in getting my foot under my knee.

I've got some Speedplay's on order. Whether or not it solves my problem, I believe they will be more comfortable in general.

In concept, yes. I'd question the 9/16" pedal extension - that's equal to the entire Speedplay adjustment range of all of their spindles from short to long and then some. Are you sure you're not talking about a 9/16"pedal thread size rather than the extension length. Most pedal extensions I've seen are even longer you can't really make them shorter than that. Kneesavers, if I recall, run 20mm to 30mm. Speedplays spindle lengths cover a span of 12mm (53mm to 65mm), if I recall. My guess is that if you have something like a kneesaver, you are looking at more like 20mm - which would be enormous and likely wrong (that's a huge amount).

There are lots of reasons for your knees being out - a primary one would be a seat that is too low. I guess I'd find it hard to believe you'd have to go to the full range and then some right out of the gate.

To judge this with respect to speedplay, I'd recommend you go to a speedplay dealer with their fit kit and have them do a pedal fit on you.

I do think that Q factor is overlooked for most riders and that evaluating that and adjusting it to each rider is a really smart thing to do.

J.

I stand corrected. You are right they are 20mm. Knees out from saddle height makes sense but doing the leg extended on pedal thing I'm sitting right where I should. I suppose potentially the cranks could be too long. The extensions do get my feet under my knees, it's not uncomfortable and they've been there now for almost 8 months. I notice when I just sit in a chair my legs always spread with knees out so maybe that's just natural for me. My stance is pretty wide also.

The only LBS in area that might have the fit kit is one I swore I would never go back to after the pathetic service I get from them each time I have gone in.

Part of this is technique - Training your legs how to pedal a bike. Part of of this could be a bunch of other issue - like toeing in or out your cleats on the pedals to change your knee position. Adding almost an inch on either side of your crank is really pretty extreme (very extreme) and I'd doubt that's the solution. Could be the need for wedges under your cleats to tip your foot like these. Part of it could be your handlebars are too low forcing your torso down over your legs and requiring your knees to move out to provide room. Lots of reasons. The 20mm on a side kneesavers are a likely a bandaid on a different problem. Too, you can do injury to your hips and knees if you move them too far out too.

I'd go to a known good bike fitter with a speedplay pedal fit kit and get it figured out. With the pedal fit kit in concert with the adjustability of the cleats side to side, they can experiment with changing your Q factor and getting it right over an 18mm range per side (13mm on pedal spindles plus an additional 5mm of nominal centered cleat). With the Speedplay zero pedals, they can precisely position the float rotation (toe/heel in or out) to control heel and toe placement. If you still have a pain issue, then I'd think playing with the wedges would be a big part of the answer.

However, none of this should be done until you have good insoles in your shoes. Having the proper arch support in your shoe is absolutely key. The arch anchors support anchors the foot in the shoe and prevents you from sliding around in the shoe as well as giving your foot structure so it doesn't wind up smashed into one part of the shoe where it really shouldn't be. Most (all) cycling shoes have virtually no support and the insoles they provide with the shoe are almost laughable. I've never seen one that was any good. Just like you can't build a building unless you have a good foundation, you need to have your foot properly set in the shoe before you start with a lot of the other stuff.

I really like the Specialized BG insoles that are fit to your arch (high, med, low arch - they have a tool to measure in the store). They work the best for me since I have high arches and they provide good metatarsal support under the front metatarsal arch which, for me, is also key to eliminating foot pain. Another good brand are the moldable Sole ones or Superfeet. Sole and Superfeet are available at REI where you can try them. I like the Sole ones because you can take a heat *** and mold them to your liking - I did that for my mtb shoes and added more metatarsal support to my forefoot which really helped me. You may or may not be comfortable doing that, I have a background in ski boot fitting which is much more complicated and precise than cycling shoes so I was but it's not for everyone.

The other reason to do a bike fit with a pro fitter is simply that they can put you on your bike on a trainer and watch how you pedal from different aspects. You can't do that and as such you'll not be able to have the insight that they would. As well, just because you get your leg measured on the bike statically, doesn't mean that it all changes when you start pedaling. You can slump/slouch, not hold your hips properly rotated etc... and it can change your fit to the pedal (again, part of the technique issue). All of this stuff is interrelated and then overlaid with technique issues.

The problem is solvable but it's likely due to rather subtle issues. In my case it was a combination of q-factor and arch support. Fixing those two issues meant I ditched the wedges I had used under my cleats before and I've ridden now thousands of miles painlessly. It took me a good three years to track it down since most bike shops are not smart about Q factor because most pedal manufacturers don't provide much adjustability. That's starting to change, but right now, Speedplay is the most adjustable by far.

J.

Man - some great information there. Thanks. I do have some custom insoles I will try in the shoes. Since that costs me nothing it's a good place to start.