Hi guys, I am currently riding a Felt F-series aluminium frame and while I like the bike on very long ride the aggressive geometry can be a little uncomfortable. I use a few spacers and have swapped the original 12cm stem for an 11cm version which has improved things but I still get pai nin all sorts of places. So I am looking for a bike upgrade anyway and don't want to go down the full Gran Fondo path but have found a bike that looks exactly what I want in terms of geometry, still sporty but less aggressive than the Felt. It's the Votec VRC Comp which I believe is available in Europe only (I am currently based in Spain).

These are the geometry numbers for the two bikes, the Votec comes with an 11cm stem as standard:

Stack: Felt 616 / Votec 625
Reach: Felt 415 / Votec 407
Top tube: both 605
Head tube: Felt 210 / Votec 218

Looking at these numbers the Votec is about 9mm higher at the front and 8mm shorter, correct? So, with the same number of spacer I would be slightly less stretched and a bit higher up which sounds great. Is that the right conclusion when looking at the numbers above or do I need to take any other things into account in terms of riding position? Any advice is much appreciated!

Thanks

Lars

So far I think that you are right. You should however also consider saddle setback. More saddle setback will take the weight off your hands and shoulders which I think is usually a good thing and based on both bikes having the same top tube length but the Votec having less reach then it SHOULD consequently, have more saddle setback and a more relaxed seat tube angle.

It would be good to compare seat tube angles.

Now, do you want to move the saddle back compared to your current Felt? Are you positioned at KOPS(Knee over pedal spindle) already? Moving the saddle back will generally make you more comfortable on a bike by taking the weight off your hands and shoulders.

However, if you are currently positioned at KOPS and want to stay at KOPS then you will need to position the saddle forwards on the new bike, which will make the effective reach even shorter than you think.

Where is the saddle positioned on your current bike. I suggest experimenting by moving the saddle rearwards.

Anthony

Hi Anthony, thanks for the reply. I really want to keep the saddle-to-bottom-bracket position as is, just because I seem to have found my optimum in this regard It's pretty much KOPS as with everything else I seem to end up having knee-pain these days....but a little less reach is actually welcome and no problem at all.

Well that sounds good. I'd still want to compare the seat tube angles between the 2 frames just to make sure everything adds up. The Votec, going by the figures should have a more relaxed(lower number) seat tube angle. If it doesn't then somethings amiss.

Anthony

Aluminum is harsh. It's a great material for building bikes but it will beat you to death. You can try a saddle with more padding or less air in tires or bigger.
Merckx geometry coupled slack seat tube angles with aggressive head tube angles. This can resulted in a more comfortable ride with performance handling. Longer chainstays also can take some harshness out of your ride, as they did with some of the early aluminum racing frames.

Hi again, the seat tube on the Felt is 73 degree, on the Votec it's 72.5. Does that make sense? Half a degree doesn't sound like much...

Head Angle is 74 degree on the Felt and 73 on the Votec.

Lars

Yes, but actually, compared to my Principia road bike from the 90s, the Felt feels very comfortably, it has much thinner seat stays and seems to deal better with road vibrations. I also have 25mm tires which makes a difference but the problem is less vibration and more my riding position.

From your last sentence in your post above, it seems that it is not a geometry question, but fine tuning your fit. I am always cautious when bike geometry, especially HA/SA comes into play on 2 similar sized bikes. Bike handling characteristics change as geometry changes and if your Felt is too aggressive from a handling point of view and you want a more laid back ride, then geometry changes are a benefit. If you love the way your Felt dives into corners and the overall handling, then the Vortec may be disappointing. You have to ride it to see if you like the way it rides.

If it is only riding position, you can get a shorter stem that has more angle to raise the handlebars. If you don't want a "riser" stem, or there is not one that will work, you can probably get an uncut fork and make up the head tube/stack differences between the Felt and Vortec.

As for you Princpia, I'm not familiar with the bike. From the few pictures I have seen, it looks similar to an older aluminum Cannondale. I ride a Cannondale and it is a stiff frame. Fortunately I am running a steel fork that does wonders.

John

Hi John, given I am already at maximum spacer capacity there isn't much flexibility left. I am planning to get a new bike anyway, so just want to make sure the new one is better in terms of position. The Felt was cheap and only bought as an "intermediate solution", so getting a new fork makes no economic sense. I think it's absolutely great value for money but now I want to sell it and get something a little more high-end. And yes, the Principia frames were quite similar to the Cannondales from the same era. They were made in Denmark, I have the R700 model. It was a very nice frame back then and still is fun to ride nowadays, just a little painful on the spine

Sounds like a good plan. Try to test ride the bike first, or at least get an understanding how it will perform. I guess the Vortec VRC is in the same bike category as the Specialized Roubaix as an endurance bike, so it should be a lot more comfortable nad easier on your body.

Good luck with your decision.

John

I haven't done the maths but the fact that the Votec DOES have a half a degree slacker seat tube angle should add up. If the seat tube angles were the same then I would be concerned. Half a degree over 700-800mm adds up.

Anthony

Thanks, Anthony! Also got some geometry device from the people at Votec and have decided to order the bike, really looking forward to ride it. I have a 100 mile ride in hilly terrain coming up in a couple of weeks, so hopefully I can get my position properly set up before then