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Knee pain but nothing has changed

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Knee pain but nothing has changed

Old 12-26-19, 07:23 AM
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chadtrent
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Knee pain but nothing has changed

After my last two rides I have been getting pain in the back of my right knee. It doesn't seem to happen until I'm done. But these have been 20-25 mile rides so maybe I wasn't riding long enough for it to start bothering me.

I'm riding the same bike I've been riding for the past 5 years. Same position. I got new shoes in February of this year but have been riding them all year. Same cleats. Everything is the same. Not a very hilly route, and one I've ridden hundreds of times.

So, I'm at a loss as to what to do to address it. The first time I just thought maybe it was a fluke and ignored it. But it happened again so that tells me that it's something I do need to worry about.
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Old 12-26-19, 10:38 AM
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You can't say, nothing has changed. You are older. That alone screws things up.
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Old 12-26-19, 11:02 AM
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Well, yes I am older. I'm about two weeks older than the last time I rode that I didn't have this problem.
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Old 12-26-19, 11:20 AM
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You probably did something to your knee and didn't notice it. The bike noticed it. Try stretching. Can you put your fingertips under your toes while wearing shoes? I can get 2 knuckles under and I'm 74. I do a somewhat elaborate stretching routine almost every morning, takes about 15 minutes.

Other than that, temporarily lower your saddle about 1/2 cm. or even a full cm., but no more.
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Old 12-26-19, 11:24 AM
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Just my 0.02. Not everything with the body is exact
Assuming nothing changed and you are doing your normal routine as often as normal... MIGHT not be the bike ride causing the problem, the ride could be further agitating an upcoming or underlying nagging issue. Just an example.. I had a couch that was soft and had a slight dip in the middle, I am bow legged and when I slept on my side my knee on one leg was slightly suspended in the air putting pressure on it. Showed up the next day on a bike ride. On marathon sessions at my computer looking up at my monitor from my crappy non ergo setup would cause problems with my neck on long rides the next day. I'm not saying these are happening to you but something might be. As odd and unique as those sound... They were a major cause of pain on or after a bike ride.
Note.. your seat post could have slipped down or the problem may just go away on its own.

Last edited by u235; 12-26-19 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 12-26-19, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
You probably did something to your knee and didn't notice it. The bike noticed it. Try stretching. Can you put your fingertips under your toes while wearing shoes? I can get 2 knuckles under and I'm 74. I do a somewhat elaborate stretching routine almost every morning, takes about 15 minutes.

Other than that, temporarily lower your saddle about 1/2 cm. or even a full cm., but no more.
Advising someone over the internet that you have never met or seen to to your specific stretch is asking them to perhaps do permanent injury to themselves if they follow your advice. We differ a lot on flexibility. Growing up, I watched my sister to ballet positions that would have me in the ER getting untangled (when I was her age and if I did the same training she did). The best I have ever done with your test is first knuckle on the floor barefoot.

I now do stretches of my Achilles and hams each morning as I grind my coffee to near espresso with a small hand grinder. Yes, I consider the stretches that important, but not the "number" I can get to.

Ben
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Old 12-26-19, 12:04 PM
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OP, has your conditioning changed? Hamstring looseness? Have you ridden in cold weather with warm knees? ANd especially, have two or three of these occurred at the same time?

I was diagnosed with CP, chrondomalcia patellae, after I did a 100 mile ride on my racing bike early March in Massachusetts wearing the same clothes and shoes I wore and raced the year before. Difference was that I had a head injury and massive lose of conditioning late the previous fall. I also switched from my short cranked fix gear to 175 cranked racing bike. That started my journey with CP that has continued to this day.

Take a look at Sore knees when on Greenspeed GTO post #12 . I posted what I wrote for another forum near 20 years ago about my experience with CP and the excellent advice I was given by a sports ortho surgeon. (Sometimes you get far more than what you pay for. That surgeon diagnosed me for free in the back of a van following the first race of the season that I had to drop out of due to the above knee issue, now 3 days old. That doc was a competitor in the race. Race promoter introduced us.

I am not saying you have CP. But if you do , it isn't going away. Ignoring it will take you to a knee replacement. Good thing is that the new titanium ones are pretty good, unlike the choices 40 years ago.

Oh, every ortho I've talked to since that day has told me the advice given to me in that van was right on the money.

Ben
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Old 12-26-19, 12:27 PM
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I've never been in great shape, but I don't think there has been a big change in my conditioning over the past few months. I'm sure I've put on a few pounds with all the holiday meals, but nothing major. Cold has never really bothered me that much. I regularly ride when it's below freezing. But it was 55 degrees yesterday.

My wife has has both her knees replaced this year, so I know all too well about knee replacement. I made an appointment with the local bike fitter for early next month. Hopefully they can see something I can't.
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Old 12-26-19, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
OP, has your conditioning changed? Hamstring looseness? Have you ridden in cold weather with warm knees? ANd especially, have two or three of these occurred at the same time?

I was diagnosed with CP, chrondomalcia patellae, after I did a 100 mile ride on my racing bike early March in Massachusetts wearing the same clothes and shoes I wore and raced the year before. Difference was that I had a head injury and massive lose of conditioning late the previous fall. I also switched from my short cranked fix gear to 175 cranked racing bike. That started my journey with CP that has continued to this day.

Take a look at Sore knees when on Greenspeed GTO post #12 . I posted what I wrote for another forum near 20 years ago about my experience with CP and the excellent advice I was given by a sports ortho surgeon. (Sometimes you get far more than what you pay for. That surgeon diagnosed me for free in the back of a van following the first race of the season that I had to drop out of due to the above knee issue, now 3 days old. That doc was a competitor in the race. Race promoter introduced us.

I am not saying you have CP. But if you do , it isn't going away. Ignoring it will take you to a knee replacement. Good thing is that the new titanium ones are pretty good, unlike the choices 40 years ago.

Oh, every ortho I've talked to since that day has told me the advice given to me in that van was right on the money.

Ben
Pain behind the knee isn't CP, which one feels as anterior pain. Raising the saddle helps CP, as do certain exercises and supplements, but that's neither here nor there. Posterior knee pain is almost always from something being too tight behind the knee:
When it comes to treatment, Monger-Godfrey recommends icing and more foam rolling – saying: “Icing for five minutes every hour can really help. Then foam roll and stretch the posterior chain – the hamstrings, calves and glutes. And stretch – hanging your heel off the back of a step helps, or you can shift forwards on the bike and stretch your calves and hamstrings by hanging your heel off the pedal, for about ten seconds.”
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/fitnes...to-know-329957

No of course one wouldn't - and couldn't - instantly become more flexible. But stretching is the long term solution. My stretches are here: IT Band pain (during ride)

Remembering what I said about a possible minor injury, when you stretch, carefully feel for any pain back there and go easy if you find it but recognize it as the probable source of the issue.
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Old 12-26-19, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Pain behind the knee isn't CP, which one feels as anterior pain. Raising the saddle helps CP, as do certain exercises and supplements, but that's neither here nor there. Posterior knee pain is almost always from something being too tight behind the knee:https://www.cyclingweekly.com/fitnes...to-know-329957

...
Re-read the post and saw that it was behind the knee. (CP is abrasion just under the kneecap/patella.)
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Old 12-26-19, 01:04 PM
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Pedaling a bike is extremely repetitious so that if something is even a little bit off, the effect is compounded. I've found during a massage, that muscles can be knotted up due to tension and I'm not aware of any such tension until the therapist finds that muscle. Whatever the cause of that tension, the tension itself causes discomfort and or actual pain. I'm a big fan of stretching to reduce discomfort and to maintain range of motion. I also, near daily, do knee exercises with the stretches. One test of mobility is to sit on the floor and try to stand up. It it takes more the 3 seconds to get on your feet, you have work to do.
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Old 12-26-19, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
You probably did something to your knee and didn't notice it. The bike noticed it.
Most likely cause...IMHO
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Old 12-26-19, 03:09 PM
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I'm not saying it's because of getting older, but the body can take a lot of beating and not complain. There is a magic window of time when injuries go to being intolerable to painful and noticeable.
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Old 12-26-19, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by chadtrent View Post
After my last two rides I have been getting pain in the back of my right knee. It doesn't seem to happen until I'm done. But these have been 20-25 mile rides so maybe I wasn't riding long enough for it to start bothering me.
The fact that it doesn't bother you while you ride, only after you finish and cool down, (plus inferred that it "heals" before the next ride) tells you it is fixable. I'm sure you will find the cause after listening to enough folks and doing your own troubleshooting.

Addendum: Although anterior physical problems in the knee usually produce anterior pain or symptoms they most definitely can in certain individual cases manifest as symptoms in the posterior knee.

Last edited by BengalCat; 12-26-19 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 12-26-19, 08:49 PM
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I've been sitting here, trying to think of someone, anyone, of my acquaintance who had a posterior knee problem. I'm the only one I can think of. My problem was a slightly torn meniscus, torn by one of the posterior knee tendons, I forget which one. 15 years ago, maybe. But i knew exactly when I did it and how. I massively overstressed that tendon. I've torn hamstrings too, but they aren't behind the knee. I've done a good bit of crazy stuff.

All that said, don't wait for the fitter. Just lower your saddle now, try stretching a little, and see how that goes. My guess is you might have it resolved before the appointment. Not that you shouldn't go even if you feel perfect. There's always more to learn.
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Old 12-27-19, 09:21 AM
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Turns out something did change. I was double checking all my measurements on my bike last night. Everything was right. So I got on to ride around the block and noticed my right heel was closer to the crank arm than it should be. Turns out the cleat on my right shoe had twisted slightly. Not enough that it was immediately visible just by looking, But it had twisted slightly. I guess enough to throw things off and make my knee stretch out more or whatever.
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Old 12-27-19, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by chadtrent View Post
After my last two rides I have been getting pain in the back of my right knee. It doesn't seem to happen until I'm done. But these have been 20-25 mile rides so maybe I wasn't riding long enough for it to start bothering me.

I'm riding the same bike I've been riding for the past 5 years. Same position. I got new shoes in February of this year but have been riding them all year. Same cleats. Everything is the same. Not a very hilly route, and one I've ridden hundreds of times.

So, I'm at a loss as to what to do to address it. The first time I just thought maybe it was a fluke and ignored it. But it happened again so that tells me that it's something I do need to worry about.
Do you have recorded measurements from before and a tape measure now that says the position hasn't changed?

Edited to add: I typed that before I read your resolution post.

Last edited by nomadmax; 12-27-19 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 12-27-19, 09:29 AM
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Yeah. Got it figured out. But I do have a sheet given to me by the person that did my fitting that shows all the measurements for my fit. I use it whenever I get a new bike.
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