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Crotch on fire.

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Crotch on fire.

Old 07-25-20, 02:14 PM
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Helderberg
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Crotch on fire.

I have adjusted my seat height to what is the correct height according to a couple different formulas, adjusted the saddle level, I have adjusted the front to back so I can pedal and let go of the handle bars and sit up. I can not stop sliding forward and at about 18-19 miles my crotch is burning. I have bibs and they will help to some degree but I can not get past this mile wall. I do not have a bike fitter near me that is worth the money that he wants. My current saddle is the photo below and that is on a medium Cannondale Topstone alloy, also the second photo is of my stem as I am not flexible enough to run the stock stem. I am 5'7", long torso and 28" inseam, 71 years old. Any and I mean ANY ideas as to what I can try would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Frank.


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Old 07-25-20, 02:20 PM
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If you are sliding forward you need to tilt the saddle more nose up. It should in fact be slightly nose higher than the rest of the saddle. Try it.
If you are 'hot crotched' get rid of the bibs with the extra padding and get some shorts with more air flow and stand up once in a while to cool off.
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Old 07-25-20, 02:23 PM
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Are you trying to sit more upright? Though that would make my tail bone hurt. I had more issues with sliding forward in my seat when I was at a more upright position.

Have you moved your saddle both fore and aft a little to see what that does? For me, going forward with the saddle and down with the bars helped with a lot of things.

Not sure about the burning crotch. Unless you mean what I'd call t'aint. Although crotch by definition probably is t'aint, I always think genitalia when I hear something like "I got hit in the crotch" <grin>.

But yes, if you are sliding forward in your saddle in a more aero than upright position, then your t'aint will be sore. Maybe burning.


How wide is that saddle? or is it long nosed? Selle Italia's usually work well for me.
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Old 07-25-20, 02:23 PM
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Try (before you buy) a significantly different saddle. Since you seem to want to ride more upright, a Brooks B-17 might be a good place to start.

Is your bike frame too big?
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Old 07-25-20, 05:05 PM
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That's a very flat saddle in profile. IME it should be level, not nose up. A little nose up works with saddles with a little rocker to them - all my saddles which have a little dish in profile are set so that the spot my pelvis hits is level, which puts the nose up a little.

My guess is that the hot crotch is because you rock your hips, which is probably a combo of your being a little inflexible and your saddle a bit too high. Try dropping your saddle about 1 cm. Also try greasing your butt with Bag Balm.

My guess about your moving forward as you ride is that it's a product of hip rocking and that working against the saddle's taper.
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Old 07-25-20, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
Try (before you buy) a significantly different saddle. Since you seem to want to ride more upright, a Brooks B-17 might be a good place to start.

Is your bike frame too big?
You know, I have been thinking this but am afraid to go there. I have tried to find my bike in a small but there is nothing available at the moment. Will try find out if this is a possiblity but need for the bikes to come back into stock first as I am sure you are aware. Thanks.
Frank.
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Old 07-25-20, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Helderberg View Post
You know, I have been thinking this but am afraid to go there. I have tried to find my bike in a small but there is nothing available at the moment. Will try find out if this is a possiblity but need for the bikes to come back into stock first as I am sure you are aware. Thanks.
Frank.
My wife bought a bike that is too big and is going through a very similar process.
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Old 07-25-20, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
My wife bought a bike that is too big and is going through a very similar process.
Thank you. I don't know what I will do if this the origin of the problem.
Damn.
Frank.
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Old 07-25-20, 08:22 PM
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"Crotch on fire" isn't terribly specific and there could be so many possible reasons with some of those reasons having nothing to do with fit.

Now this may be asking for too much information yet, do you have a fungal infection down there?
So many avenues that need exploring.
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Old 07-25-20, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Helderberg View Post
Thank you. I don't know what I will do if this the origin of the problem.
Damn.
Frank.
If you can stand over the top tube with your feet flat on the ground, it's unlikely that it's too large or perhaps better, not so large as to be unworkable. For more precise advice, go to the bike calculator, have someone help you take your measurements, and fill it out: https://www.competitivecyclist.com/S...ulatorBike.jsp

It's plausible that your body is unfamiliar with how a road bike is supposed to fit. We might be able to help you make your body fit your bike, just like in the fairy tale.
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Old 07-26-20, 05:04 AM
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Might be the wrong saddle width or the center cutout is too big.

When I was looking for saddle, I needed a center cutout and turns out the best for me is a smaller one. This needs trying different saddles before choosing which to buy.

Moving forward will definitely put you in the narrow part of the saddle and cause crotch burn.

Also try putting more effort / force at the top of the pedal stroke (like kicking forward at the pedals) and this will push you to the back of the seat. Just don't over-do it as you still need to optimize power during the downstroke. And putting too much force at the top of the pedal stroke could hurt your knees. It takes practice and you'll probably get used it in a week. This pedaling technique works better with short cranks to avoid straining your knees and have a wider hip angle
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Old 07-26-20, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
If you can stand over the top tube with your feet flat on the ground, it's unlikely that it's too large or perhaps better, not so large as to be unworkable. For more precise advice, go to the bike calculator, have someone help you take your measurements, and fill it out: https://www.competitivecyclist.com/S...ulatorBike.jsp

It's plausible that your body is unfamiliar with how a road bike is supposed to fit. We might be able to help you make your body fit your bike, just like in the fairy tale.
I can stand over the top tube and have a small amount of room to spare. I am going to try another seat I have and see what difference that will make. Also, I forgot to say that my feet go numb about the same millage.
Thanks again to all that are posting here. Very much appreciated.
Frank.
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Old 07-26-20, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
"Crotch on fire" isn't terribly specific and there could be so many possible reasons with some of those reasons having nothing to do with fit.

Now this may be asking for too much information yet, do you have a fungal infection down there?
So many avenues that need exploring.
No, thankfully, I have no infections, boils, rash, or other malidites at the present time.
Frank.
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Old 07-26-20, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Helderberg View Post
I can stand over the top tube and have a small amount of room to spare. I am going to try another seat I have and see what difference that will make. Also, I forgot to say that my feet go numb about the same millage.
Thanks again to all that are posting here. Very much appreciated.
Frank.
Yeah, numb feet. Lower the saddle.
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Old 07-26-20, 10:31 AM
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I used to have the same problem early in my cycling. Some saddles have a wedge shape when viewed from overhead. I found I was much happier if the saddle was more T shaped and narrowed down quickly to the nose area. I also use a relatively wide saddle at 155 mm. It was a long hard struggle to find saddles that work and then to find the best saddle position. At one point I considered giving up the bike. Good thing I'm stubborn.
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Old 07-28-20, 04:36 AM
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Saddles shouldn't be pointed up. Check if the saddle is wide enough to support your sit bones (the bony parts of your backside should squarely sit on the saddle), if it isn't then it's too narrow, and that could be causing the problem. Otherwise, the saddle is probably fine.

I'd look first at saddle height and cleat position - if you pedal "toe down" a lot then I'd move the cleats back a bit and re-examine the saddle height. A very possible cause is a saddle just a bit too high; if it's a bit of a challenge to reach to the pedals, the body tends to compensate for it while pedalling, and that could cause you to slide forward. Plus, a more "heel down" stance, which you get with the cleats a bit back and the saddle a bit lower pushes you back in the saddle. Basically, for saddle height I'd start deliberately lower than formulas suggest (being able to just about pedal with your heels while you're sitting on the saddle as you would while riding, as a starting point), bring an allen key with you on a ride, then go up a hill and see how it feels - then raise it by a few milimetres, and again, go up a hill to see how it feels and so on - if your pedal stroke stops being smooth, dial it down.

Now, your fore-aft adjustment sounds alright (as you say, you can let go of the bars while pedaling, without sliding, that is good), but I would suspect if you slide forward as you ride that your reach may be too long, especially since the bike is a bit big (personally, I'm a hair over 5ft 10 and my bike is a slight bit smaller). If your arms feel stretched out rather then having a bit of a bend to them, then the reach to the bars could be part of the problem.

With a stem already on the very short end, you don't really have any more room to correct the reach of the bike without trading it for a smaller bike (which would be great if you could, though, you'd also get shorter cranks and that'd be probably good given your inseam length). Maybe trying to see how you get on with the saddle a bit more forward, although it's not an ideal way to adjust reach.

I'd look at cleat position / saddle height (and saddle width, too) first. When I was playing around with saddle height, sliding forward was one of the signs that I pushed it a bit too high.

Last edited by Branko D; 07-28-20 at 04:53 AM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 07-28-20, 08:10 AM
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Thanks again for all of your advice. I have changed the saddle to a wider piece and a different basic style. I have also lowered it about a 1/4" and took it for a ride. It felt much better but I got a flat and had to repair that and ended up only getting 8 miles in. After the flat was fixed the thunder and lightning started so I will get out today or tomorrow and see how the changes work out. I can say that the lowered saddle seem to have made the biggest noticeable improvement but then again not a real test yet. As far as the reach is concerned, my arms are not stretched and my elbows are easily bent. I also have noticed that I have been stressing my shoulders to get my head up high enough to see all the way down the road and that locks out my arms and causes my butt to move forward. Realizing this I have made a conscious effort to keep my head at a more appropriate angle and that was a noticeable improvement also. I need to stop making wholesale changes so I can understand what is working and what is not. Just happy to see improvement in the feel. Also, I use flat, wide, studded pedals not clips.
Thanks all again for all of your help. Very much appreciated.
Frank.
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Old 07-28-20, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Helderberg View Post
Thanks again for all of your advice. I have changed the saddle to a wider piece and a different basic style. I have also lowered it about a 1/4" and took it for a ride. It felt much better but I got a flat and had to repair that and ended up only getting 8 miles in. After the flat was fixed the thunder and lightning started so I will get out today or tomorrow and see how the changes work out. I can say that the lowered saddle seem to have made the biggest noticeable improvement but then again not a real test yet. As far as the reach is concerned, my arms are not stretched and my elbows are easily bent. I also have noticed that I have been stressing my shoulders to get my head up high enough to see all the way down the road and that locks out my arms and causes my butt to move forward. Realizing this I have made a conscious effort to keep my head at a more appropriate angle and that was a noticeable improvement also. I need to stop making wholesale changes so I can understand what is working and what is not. Just happy to see improvement in the feel. Also, I use flat, wide, studded pedals not clips.
Thanks all again for all of your help. Very much appreciated.
Frank.
Re head neck issues: Riding Position Discovery
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Old 07-28-20, 01:38 PM
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OK. Now I have to get out and see what my body is doing to influence or accentuate my issues. The flat back balance direction is a very compelling reason for my pain. So much information for this old man to digest and implement. Will change the stem first and take it from there. Damn. Also, called around today to see if any of the local, reasonable mileage from my home, bike shops had a small size in my bike and they said nothing will be coming in for at least three months. Going to see what can be done with the bike I have and it seems I will have plenty of time to experiment. Again, to all that have taken the time to help me I can not thank you enough. If nothing else I sure as hell am much better informed now.
Frank.
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Old 08-02-20, 01:27 PM
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I'm a new member and have been reading this thread with interest. With all my local gyms closed I have cleaned up my old bike to start ridding again. I previously suffered from numb hands and rear when reaching 15 mile rides. I have a weak center core (hernia) and have tweaked with replacing and positioning seats and handle bars. I recently purchased gloves that may help with my numb hands. I was given advice to look into a Brooks leather seat from a biker (he's a engineer) in his 70's (i'm 67). From what I have read the more expensive Brooks seat the better. It is suppose to form to your body over time. One thing that helped me was being able to adjust the seat moving it forward and back to find a sweat spot. My current seat is limited to the amount of adjustment forward and backward and I may be exploring one that allows more adjustment. I also might buy a Brooks leather seat. I imagine the seat break in might be uncomfortable!

Last edited by justbob; 08-02-20 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 08-02-20, 05:54 PM
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Sometimes/often its not so much a matter of breaking in the saddle as its a matter of toughening up your arse.
My experience is that the longer your rides get the more you benefit from a HARD saddle yet at first hard saddles can be bruising. Soft saddles at first are useful for preventing the initial bruising yet as you extend your time in the saddle soft saddles become very numbing.
So it comes down to a numbing/bruising balance. Hard saddles win out in the long run but getting to the point where hard saddles are comfortable can take some time and miles.
When I hop on my bike these days, for the first few km's the saddle can still feel a little hard yet I soon settle into it.
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Old 08-03-20, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by justbob View Post
I'm a new member and have been reading this thread with interest. With all my local gyms closed I have cleaned up my old bike to start ridding again. I previously suffered from numb hands and rear when reaching 15 mile rides. I have a weak center core (hernia) and have tweaked with replacing and positioning seats and handle bars. I recently purchased gloves that may help with my numb hands. I was given advice to look into a Brooks leather seat from a biker (he's a engineer) in his 70's (i'm 67). From what I have read the more expensive Brooks seat the better. It is suppose to form to your body over time. One thing that helped me was being able to adjust the seat moving it forward and back to find a sweat spot. My current seat is limited to the amount of adjustment forward and backward and I may be exploring one that allows more adjustment. I also might buy a Brooks leather seat. I imagine the seat break in might be uncomfortable!
I've never used a hard saddle that didn't at first give me great pain though later on a long ride, my whole butt would get numb. OTOH, soft saddles don't suit me either. I like a saddle that's padded fairly firmly so that I can just get my thumb into it. Everyone's different is the rule. The way to get your butt used to a saddle is to start by riding about 30' every day. After a week or two, you should be used to it enough to ride longer.

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Old 08-03-20, 10:40 AM
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Thanks AnthonyG and Carbonfiberboy for your replies.

Back in the 1990's I had several bike wrecks (road potholes) that injured my shoulders. My right shoulder showed scaring in a X-ray. This and a weak core (hernia) along with frame reach distance probably contribute to my hand numbness on rides over 10 miles.

I have bookmarked the links relating to bike adjustments and will walk thru.
Thanks!
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