Darth Lefty 

Well, that should be good for another couple of pages

base2 

Moving saddle back, bars away is effectively the same thing. Which is the appropriate fix would depend on how a rider is rotated, (being further forward or bolt upright) and the riders individual propertions. Your point is taken though, I could have been more clear.

Carbonfiberboy 

Moisture, as mentioned above, you obviously did not take your measurements correctly and got a screwy result. One can't do that alone, one needs a helper to measure and one muse follow the directions precisely to get a correct result.

Be that as it may, there's a much more direct route to look at correct bike sizing and that's to measure with your body. I set saddle height by measuring with my leg, the "heel on pedal" method. I determine correct reach by measuring with my torso and arms. I was talking about your top tube seeming much too short just eyeballing it. We could take another look at that fairly simply:

1) Take a photo of yourself leaning forward with your elbows on your handlebars.
2) See if you can lean forward far enough that your back is almost level. You'll probably wind up resting your chest on your bars. Hang your upper arms so that those upper arms are at about a 90° angle to your torso. Then bend your elbows so that your forearms are horizontal. Take a photo of that position. It may take a few tries to get that position just so.
3) Post the photos.

Thanks.

Carbonfiberboy 

Not really.

aniki

Quite frankly it's very difficult not to make fun of your fit when by inference, you're making fun of everyone else's.
I can safely assume that you're the only person in this thread who modifies and rides a 'racing bike' to become some kind of 'shopping' bike or town bike while I also make the assumption that everyone else on this thread including me has a position more akin to the person you're calling mr. arched banana back.
Yet you've said that you can only ride for an hour and half before you get a sore butt (not that that surprises me at all as you clearly have far too much weight on it) whereas I, and no doubt all those who adopt the same position as mr. arched banana back can ride 6, 7 or 8 hours in a day without any butt soreness at all.
I don't think we've got much chance of 'seeing' your set up in action but maybe you can publish some garmin stats or show us some strava screenshots and we can see the phenomenal power you're able to produce with this 'optimal' position....

Moisture

no it isn't.

base2 

Just edited to add "individual proportions" to above post.

I have long monkey arms for example. At 6 foot tall and a 31.5 inseam, I am all torso & arms. All my bikes are 58's The proper saddle placement for balance for you, on your bike would obliterate my wrists & shoulders/neck in short order.

In isolation, moving the saddle back, or moving the bars away effect the same result: Less weight bourne on the hands/wrists/shoulders/neck muscles.

Here is my nearest equivalent fit to the OP that I owned & built before I donated it to a local bike co-op charity for auction. I used to ride it on the Lake Washington loop & do 30 mile trips to Ballard for craft beer inspection & testing.
20190330_180742 by Richard Mozzarella, on Flickr
You'll notice how far the bars are away, in comparison to how much the OP's arms are holding up his torso in the photo he provides in post number 1. One of us will be way more comfortable on much longer rides.

Mr. 66

Moisture, I just gotta say it.

That's an ugly bike, but it looks good when you use it...

Koyote

You're half right.

Moisture

Quite frankly, i don't give a sh*t what you think of my fit.

With the exception of cube wheels, I haven't made fun of one single persons fit on this forum. Even in his case, I was being very constructive and understanding that his choices are limited and he is making due based on what he has and his proportions, respectively.

From a postural perspective, an arched lower back is terrifyingly bad news. Unfortunately it would be wise to compromise your racy leaning forward position somewhat so you can keep your back in a more or less natural posture.

I am not here to argue whether such a leaning position is or isn't effective. I am certainly not here to judge other people's fit or criticize them directly because their opinion does not directly coincide with my own ideas. Shame on you for not doing the same.

When you ride your bike, assuming your stabilizer muscles are all engaged properly and keeping everything tight, you should feel like you are bang on centre. You should be able to easily weigh your front OR rear axle effortlessly, at any given moment of your ride, without ever feeling like there is too much weight positioned back or forth.

Bouncing can be alleviated with some mindful motor skills and keeping the weight of your butt off the saddle when you are sprinting.

According to the heel to pedal method of measuring leg extension, I am bang on perfect. (note, my inseam is about 34.8 inches and I ride with 175mm cranks) . I digress.

Try a frame your size.

Again, its not exactly the same thing. Moving your saddle back will bias more weight towards the rear of the bike. Moving the bars away from you will bias more weight toward the front of the bike.

Therefore, your body is not balanced or positioned identically in either circumstance;

Not the same thing .

Moisture

Dude, my seat is at the correct height .

Koyote

Then why did you post the photo and argue with everyone who commented on it?


It's not even close to the correct height.

Moisture

don't judge until you see leg extension at 6 o clock positioning

base2 

Base2 to Base2:
Hey Base2, Base2 here. Look, I know you wanna help an' all...& you know a thing or two about a thing or two, but this guy doesn't want your help & he isn't interested in listening. You see Base2, he doesn't share a common reality or have the experience with which to share a common understanding of what the words mean that you are using.

Just leave him alone, my friend. Just let it be. He'll come to understand in his own time.

Peace be with you, brother.
Base2

mack_turtle

everything about your fit is stupid. I tried to help, but I don't have time for sheer willful ignorance. I will continue to contradict all the ignorant crap you post on this forum whenever appropriate, lest you lead other riders astray and end up hurting themselves. your "advice" is just plain irresponsible.

Trakhak

Threads such as this one remind me of the 1960s folk and pop singer Donovan boasting in an interview that he had mastered the sitar in 6 months. Ravi Shankar, told of Donovan's statement, said "I've studied the sitar for 35 years, and I have yet to master it."

woodcraft

"- I have nearly full leg extension at the 3 o clock crank position"

FIFY

philbob57

Seat height is correct. Leg's too short. ETT and stem extension are correct. Upper body and arms are too long.

I don't mean to be nasty. My own way of handling a weak core is to avoid exercise and accept the pain of too much weight on my hands, arms, and associated joints. But my seat height is correct - no knee pain riding, but I get knee pain while walking and dancing. (I avoid running, too, whenever possible.) No back or butt pain, either, while on the bike, because the bike's length is about right, and my butt takes only part of my weight.

Moisture, You need to run some more experiments and check out more variables. You closed your mind prematurely, sort of like Donovan did.

Moisture

You seem to be rather accurate.

I'm going to begin gradually lowering my stem height in small increments as I get used to using my core more. So far, I'm definetly noticing an improvement due to extra mindfulness as well as increased core training.

My inseam is almost 35 inches. I actually thought it was my torso that was proportionally short. I do know that my arms are pretty long though. I think that these factors are the main reason why I wanted such a weird fit (flat bars on a drop bar bike)

Id be very eager to play around with some different road bikes and find a different riding position for reference. I am defintly keeping my options open here. I have been searching the classifieds nearly every single day for a 60-62cm or so frame to play around with i obviously want a more leaning forward position, but so far I haven't managed to make that possible in a way which works well for me.

As for poor core strength, like i was saying, its more a combination of nearly every muscle in your entire body which plays an important role. There's always something you can do about that. They say that even the wisest and most accomplished is never accepting of their achievements. It's always a work in progress. Why should you accept anything less when you can do more?

Moisture

its hard to get a picture on my own using just a 10 sexond timer lol. I will get around to doing so today.

Totally agree. But my proportions make it difficult to comfortably achieve what you consider "aggressive"

I've experimented enough with different stem lengths and heights to get a good understanding of what works for me. You told me that the only way to learn from this point onwards is by trying new frames. I 100% agree with you. I don't have ready access to that.

I think that by the point you're just being inconsiderate. I mean, what sort of advice have I ever offered, (which didn't come from you, or someone else on here directly) that you don't agree with? By all means,.show me even one valid example.

All I see on here is a couple of trolls mixed in with the rest of the friendly commenters on here. But at least everyone has made themselves useful and taught me a thing or two about bikes.

Youre delusional, and horrifyingly hypocritical.

philbob57

As long as your seat height is as far wrong as it is, you cannot know what works for you. My bet is that your hips rock all through your pedaling motion. That is bad for your muscles. It's bad for your most tender skin.

You don't need a different bike to check out stem lengths. All you need is a longer stem and perhaps a Technomic stem to get the height you'll want.. That will force you to bend to each the 'bars, and I hope you bend at your hips, and keep your arms bent at the elbow. .Start with you 'bars as close to level with your saddle as possible. Make your 'bars go forward of the stem so you have to stretch a bit.

You'll solve your butt soreness by taking weight off your butt. You'll open your chest and probably be able breathe better. Your arms will hurt at first, but you'll probably develop core strength, and they'll stop hurting. (I say that because I'm overweight, and my upper body is weak, but my core gets strong enough by the end of the season if I focus on decent form.) You'll find riding easier and more enjoyable.

Some time conventional wisdom is conventional because it works well. Try it - it may work for you.

aniki

Your golden nuggets of baseless nonsensical 'advice' can be found in at least the following threads on this very page...

What size track frame will fit me?
Canyon road bike sizing
Stem Length & Fit According to your Proportions
Confused About Vintage Trek Sizing (Feeling Cramped)

mack_turtle

still waiting. you were able to get a photo of it before, what's stopping you now?

mack_turtle

How to avoid hand pain while biking?

Giant Roam 2?

diet advice nonsense, contradicting an author's dietician Did you start a new diet with the new year?

more bike fit/ physio gobbledygook How to avoid hand pain while biking?

unqualified nonsense Ribble Endurance SLR vs Specialized Tarmac SL7 Pro

Dr. Moisture telling people to scald themselves in the shower Impact of strength training
where did you go to medical school?

The Cannondale Badboy was designed for a flat bar. someone should remind Cannondale! Cannondale Bad Boy 1 City Bike

so vague Gravel bikes w/flat bars?

someone told you that your saddle is too low, and you agreed. then in this thread, you say it's fine and setting up a camera to get a second opinion is too hard. Clydesdales & Baseline For Frame Fitting..

Rage

Boy, at first I thought he was just an overly enthusiastic newbie with a buncha goofy ideas but now I’m not so sure hahaha!