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-   -   Moisture's Unique Frame Fit (https://www.bikeforums.net/fitting-your-bike/1222465-moistures-unique-frame-fit.html)

Moisture 01-26-21 09:25 PM

Moisture's Unique Frame Fit
 
If anyone is interested, I snapped a quick photo of my road/gravel fit.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3b55afa645.jpg


- Seat is almost all the way back on the rails
- I have nearly full leg extension at the 6 o clock crank position, maybe just below when my toes are pointed downwards due to the strap in pedals.
- Using a 220mm tall, 40mm long stem

- This fit is extremely effective from a power transfer and handling perspective while still being very comfortable. But aerodynamics obviously suffers somewhat.

In the future, the two main things I'd like to address with my current fit would be the height of the stem and the crank arms. I want longer than 175mm for my inseam. This will help me sit lower in the bike. I also want to figure out a way to comfortably lower the stem a little and get slightly more streamlined without getting an even shorter stem. But for now, with the exception of the crank arm length, I've achieved a perfect fit for myself.

-As for frame geometry itself, id prefer 10mm shorter chain stays (425mm), 10mm longer top tube (590mm) to bias my weight slightly more rearward toward a more nimble rear triangle while having some more space to stretch out.

Otherwise, i can push this bike hard through corners and obstacles with a perfect balance between front tire grip/ rear tire slide and the ability to effectively contr rear axle skidding with the inside of my leg against either side of the saddle. Also, the ride is super comfortable even over the worst bumps.

mack_turtle 01-27-21 06:55 AM

I am glad that works for you. It applies to no one else but you. That's a weird fit that would be awkward and painful to anyone else. Not sure why you keep posting these things as if you're an authority.

Your stance is like a Dutch-style city bike but on a road bike with a flat bar. I don't know what kind of terrains, speed, and distance you're riding but that looks miserable for more and a short ride around the neighborhood.

aniki 01-27-21 07:04 AM

Yeah it's not even that unique....
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...89670f3c62.jpg

Rage 01-27-21 07:29 AM

Please stop posting advice on bike fit lol.

mack_turtle 01-27-21 09:13 AM

you look like you're sitting at a desk, not on a bicycle. there is no way you're getting a balanced amount of weight front/ rear with that setup. there's so much rearward bias on that bike that you might as well be riding a unicycle. do you have a complete lack of upper body control that you can't build a balanced bike and hold some weight with your trunk/arms?


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f0e3566acb.jpg

that gel saddle cover. chain hanging off the bike. no front brake but there's a bolt there. surely you post here just for laughs, right? none of your bike setup makes any sense.

Moisture 01-27-21 09:19 AM


Originally Posted by shelbyfv (Post 21897310)
I can see this pic being useful in other fit related threads. Apparently we need your permission to re-post it. You OK with that?:thumb:

Useful how? I think you must be joking . Where do u wanna post it?


Originally Posted by mack_turtle (Post 21897321)
you look like you're sitting at a desk, not on a bicycle. there is no way you're getting a balanced amount of weight front/ rear with that setup. there's so much rearward bias on that bike that you might as well be riding a unicycle. do you have a complete lack of upper body control that you can't build a balanced bike and hold some weight with your trunk/arms?


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f0e3566acb.jpg

that gel saddle cover. chain hanging off the bike. no front brake but there's a bolt there. surely you post here just for laughs, right? none of your bike setup makes any sense.

No gel cover.

i remove the chain off the front ring to release tension from the derailleur when not in use. It was snowing out today.

The front brake is removed temporarily because I'm playing around with my 26x1.75 front rim. I also need to grease the pivot point on the brakes, but I've decided to simply get new tektros. So they need to come off anyways.

ive spent a lot of time working on getting more weight rearward and off my wrists/lower back. If this was too rearward for me (it may look like it, but feels great for me) I obviously would have done something about it by now.

Moisture 01-27-21 09:27 AM


Originally Posted by shelbyfv (Post 21897150)
:roflmao:What's your longest ride on that thing? You get the Iron Butt trophy if you can ride it over 10 miles! Take a curve at the bottom of a descent? Call the EMS ahead of time. :rolleyes:

Youre exaggerating, I mean come on now. I can ride the bike about 1.5 hours with no break before getting a sore butt.

I'll try to get a video of me pedalling, and then find a spot with a nice bumpy turn to navigate through to show off the balance. You'd be impressed.

When keeping my weight in the saddle and bars, I can feel it in my wrists and butt. This position actively makes me use a light grip in the bars while centering my weight into the pedals. This way, im quite fast on the bike with minimal lower back soreness.

in reality this is an extreme frame fit circumstance which few of you will ever have to deal with, and I've made it work perfectly according to the way my bodyweight is dispositioned. It sure does look like my weight is very rear biased based on the bike. Doesn't feel that way. In reality my weight is distributed fore and aft the same way as with any of you riding on a proper fitting frame.

If you truly do wish to use my photo for some sort of educational purpose, go right ahead. But please don't make fun of my fit - at least not until you see the setup in action.

Moisture 01-27-21 09:29 AM


Originally Posted by shelbyfv (Post 21897339)
I guess that's a "no." :foo:

Please refer to post #9 - sure- go right ahead. But please tag me if you do.

Moisture 01-27-21 09:38 AM

mack_turtle

On one hand, you seem to acknowledge that as long as it works, it works. On the other hand, you think I am incapable of learning and make fun of my setup (despite the strides I've made ever since I joined this forum, rarely getting offended by any comments om here and using it to learn instead) nonetheless, I admire your knowledge tremendously, and I credit your posts as being indispensable with helping me learn more about frame geometry.

Except for the case with cubewheels, I dont judge anyone on here. Him basing his immovable opinion on bike fit with whatever little resources he has is unreasonable, yet i still tried to keep my judgment to a minimum, at least until I see his setup in action. I would urge you to follow the same principle.

mack_turtle 01-27-21 09:58 AM

you're welcome. I am just perplexed by your intensions here. clearly, the way your bike fits is unique to you. it's quirky and I contend that it's not really ideal. If I were nearby, I'd ride with you and I'd be ASTONISHED if you could ride that bike with any sort of speed and grace over a distance. if you can, that means you have tremendous athletic ability that is a credit to you, but a bike that fits you better will handle MUCH better. it's something you have to experience to believe. it would like trying to write with your right hand all your life and suddenly realizing that you're naturally left-handed. a revelation! I think you would benefit from a bike that truly fits better, and any number of experienced bike fitters who have decades of experience would agree. if you don't want to hear that, continue to do whatever works for you.

however, what do you plan to accomplish by posting "advice" about bike fitting here, considering your experience it limited and does not make any sense in the context of over a century of development among generations of the global cycling community? I just don't get why you're so hellbent on sharing your whacky bikes that make everyone cringe/ laugh when no one is going to validate your half-baked ideas. please leave the advice to people who have the knowledge and experience and quietly listen rather than pontificating your weirdo circus bikes. you could do harm to someone who does not know better and could buy a bike that does not fit a normal person or suit their riding style.

Moisture 01-27-21 10:04 AM


Originally Posted by mack_turtle (Post 21897389)
you're welcome. I am just perplexed by your intensions here. clearly, the way your bike fits is unique to you. it's quirky and I contend that it's not really ideal. I think you would benefit from a bike that truly fits better, and any number of experienced bike fitters who have decades of experience would agree. if you don't want to hear that, continue to do whatever works for you.

however, what do you plan to accomplish by posting "advice" about bike fitting here, considering your experience it limited and does not make any sense in the context of over a century of development among generations of the global cycling community? I just don't get why you're so hellbent on sharing your whacky bikes that make everyone cringe/ laugh when no one is going to validate your half-baked ideas. please leave the advice to people who have the knowledge and experience and quietly listen rather than pontificating your weirdo circus bikes. you could do harm to someone who does not know better and could buy a bike that does not fit a normal person or suit their riding style.


Do you know how many times I've read "you'd be better off with a better fitting frame..." yes. I think so too. But what would be an example of a better fitting frame? Could you elaborate or show an example? Ideally I'd want a sloping top tube for better standover clearance and more exposed seat post.

- I haven't done much in the way of recommending fitting ideas. While I think I do have a decent understanding, basing my unique ideas of whatever works ideally for me doesn't apply to 99.5% of you.

The majority of my advice was simple try out different length stems and saddle positions. But I'll stop there as you've made a valid point.

mack_turtle 01-27-21 10:08 AM

we've been over this. any modern bike from any reputable manufacturer that was designed to fit someone of your height and designed to handle well on the type of terrain you want to ride would be terrific. literally any bike with the right size frame in a bike shop would be worth testing. go test ride a modern XL mountain bike or a 58-60 cm road bike. that might not be an option right now due to COVID restrictions and northern winter weather, but as soon as you get the opportunity, I'd like to hear what you think of a bike that was designed for you.

mack_turtle 01-27-21 10:13 AM

this is how most fitters and riders prefer a road bike to fit. it's possible to get a more upright fit for someone who is touring—riding day after day for very long distances— or for someone with mobility issues like a fused spine.

the setup you have there is bolt-upright. you're almost standing up like you're walking. that's fine for an upright city bike, and if that's what you're going for, please understand that and present your ideas in that context.

for a mountain bike, setup usually results in something between what you have and a conventional road fit.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...225e101116.jpg
Here's a pic I shared of how my "gravel" bike is set up. I have a different frame now, but this is what I use for paved and unpaved roads and quite a bit of punishing singletrack. I can ride this bike easily for 50+ miles. it's quite upright and compact compared to how most people set up a bike like this.

Moisture 01-27-21 10:23 AM

mack_turtle in the link you posted with the road fit, looks like a good fit for him, but that rounded back is awful. These type of fits promote that, which is not good.

You look reslly comfortable on that green gravel bike. Clearly whatever you have going on there works great for you, and your back is in a much healthier position.

Agree that a mountain bike fit would be somewhere In the middle. I definetely did always want the upright cruiser position, but most of the time I certainly do not treat or handle my bike like you would expect a cruiser to be maneuvered.

In real life scenarios, I imagine that my fore/aft balancing is not far off from you on your gravel bike (using thst as an example for good fit)

Really, the only way for this to make more sense is by seeing how 6ft3 riders (of similar stature and proportion) fit onto their own bikes. You dont see 6ft3 riders heavier than 180lb on road bikes very often, so i don't think there is much of a standard.

Options are limited at the bike shops. I did find a 61 size GT Grade nearby, but I couldn't ride it because it was salty and dirty outside after snowfall. I'll try again once it's clearer outside. But just from sitting on the bike, even with the long stem and drop bars it seemed to be comfortable. So I agree with you there. But looking at the triangle of comfort, performance and efficiency of my current fit, I'd say I'm actually slightly biased towards a endurance fit, based on the way my weight is distributed on the bike.

mack_turtle 01-27-21 10:35 AM

I was making a conscious effort to flatten my back when I took those images. I probably don't ride like that in practice, but I've never left my body to witness it in person.
I had to go digging for this photo, but this is my old Soma DCD when I rode Castell Grind in 2016. I think I road the 100K like this.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...69c3853aef.png
I am pretty sure I am mashing out of the saddle on a soft, sandy uphill in this photo.

Rage 01-27-21 10:38 AM

Hi Moisture, sorry if it seems we are being cruel. Speaking for myself, I never actually thought you were trolling. I can see the earnestness in/of your posts.

It’s just perplexing that you offer up advice as an authority on a subject you demonstrably show you might not fully understand yet.
The geometry you espouse and the kind of fit you advocate is just kind of wack for the purposes described.

Rage 01-27-21 10:42 AM

Get that Zaskar you turn your nose up at back in some semblance of its stock geometry, ride it like that for a while and get back to us.

mack_turtle 01-27-21 10:54 AM


Originally Posted by Rage (Post 21897442)
It’s just perplexing that you offer up advice as an authority on a subject you demonstrably show you might not fully understand yet.
The geometry you espouse and the kind of fit you advocate is just kind of wack for the purposes described.

this. sorry if I am rude, but I like the direct confrontation style of debate instead of tiptoeing around one another's feelings over clear disagreements like we're in kindergarten. I've taken my own lumps in this kind of discussion so I appreciate Moisture's resilience. to reiterate the underlying question though: Moisture comes across as a self-appointed expert. maybe that's not your goal, but that is how most of us perceive your posts. however, you offer no evidence that you really understand what you're talking about. you offer plenty of evidence to the contrary.

regarding modern bike fits: just go watch videos of anyone riding a bike. observe people around you riding. that rounded back that looks "awful" to you is the result of over a century of experience from the global cycling community. if your approach contradicts that, you're either a once-in-a-lifetime genius whose revolutionary insights will change the world, or you're an over-confident noob who has a lot to learn, starting with humility.

Rage 01-27-21 11:05 AM

You didn’t come off rude, Mack. More like exasperated lol.

wgscott 01-27-21 11:10 AM


Originally Posted by shelbyfv (Post 21897339)
I guess that's a "no." :foo:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3b55afa645.jpg

:foo:

Iride01 01-27-21 11:53 AM

If it works for you that is all that matters. I've been comfortable on frames many times the size my height suggest will work for me. But I was comfortable on them.

What I'd like to know about your current position is can you ride that for 4 to 5 hours with out issues on a regular basis. I can and do ride my position for 4 and 5 hours with not even a saddle sore.

Ferrouscious 01-27-21 01:05 PM

yikes

wgscott 01-27-21 01:08 PM

I like what has been done with the phone cable.

Moisture 01-27-21 01:37 PM


Originally Posted by Iride01 (Post 21897593)
If it works for you that is all that matters. I've been comfortable on frames many times the size my height suggest will work for me. But I was comfortable on them.

What I'd like to know about your current position is can you ride that for 4 to 5 hours with out issues on a regular basis. I can and do ride my position for 4 and 5 hours with not even a saddle sore.

No, if we are taking about 1.5 ghours straight or more butt gets sore... not sure how i can fix that


Originally Posted by wgscott (Post 21897771)
I like what has been done with the phone cable.

LOL, i think it isw for the tv actually.

mack_turtle 01-27-21 01:48 PM


Originally Posted by Moisture (Post 21897834)
No, if we are taking about 1.5 hours straight or more butt gets sore... not sure how i can fix that.

I can't help but leave a snarky suggestion: ride a bike that fits you.


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