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can I compensate a small frame on bigger seatpostand stem?

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can I compensate a small frame on bigger seatpostand stem?

Old 02-03-21, 10:55 AM
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felipe.m
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can I compensate a small frame on bigger seatpostand stem?

I am 197cm (~6ft4) and can't find a big enough road bike frame where I am. The biggest one available is 58x58 cm (seat tube and top tube), whereas the ideal would be at least a 62.
Would it be ok to get it along with longer seatpost and stem? Or will my lower back kill me afterwards?
Many thanks, cheers!
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Old 02-03-21, 10:59 AM
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to some degree, yes. it depends on the specific frame dimensions and how far off the fit is. if you need an excessive seatpost and stem, the handling will be thrown off. if you need to go too far, that's like buying a size 12 sneaker when you need a 14 and cutting a hole in the front to let your toes can stick out so the shoe "fits."
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Old 02-03-21, 11:04 AM
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impossible to answer , mostly , pro riders size down and train to take the pain , your body measurements would be the best way to tell , can you test fit the bike at the shop or the seller , if you can then it will give you a better idea of what you will need to make the bike work and what is possible !
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Old 02-03-21, 11:05 AM
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Don't use a size you fit for one model bike to be the one and only thing you look at for other models.... even within the same brand of bikes. And especially if that 62 cm bike was a bike from 40 or so years ago.

What specific model and make is it? What does the actual manufacturer recommend for that model. (not the person or bike shop selling it, though most LBS's are honest)

Long torso vs long legs can make a difference. Also, how long and how intense an effort you'll ride a bike will make a difference in whether you need to really worry so much.
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Old 02-03-21, 12:34 PM
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felipe.m
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oh man. I only found this frame size online at an ebay sort of site (can't post the link here yet), and I haven't tried to get in touch with the brand, that's a good idea.
I have longer legs. the bike fit apps tell me I need a saddle height (from the middle of the crank set to the seat) of 82cm - which would mean a 24cm seatpost, which is doable.
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Old 02-03-21, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by felipe.m View Post
(can't post the link here yet)
sure you can. Just write it in the plain text portion of your message. Remove the https:// and try putting a space before and after the "." or change the ".' to "dot".

Then it's no longer a URL, the spam filters won't balk and the spam police won't come to your door.

We'll figure out how to make it a workable URL again.
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Old 02-03-21, 03:39 PM
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felipe.m
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but of course!
https :// produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-1173039729-kit-quadro-speed-absolute-wild-r-preto-fosco-5858-direco-_JM#position=1&type=item&tracking_id=81f3f8d8-fd7c-4d01-9641-fa8e70cd2a00
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Old 02-03-21, 05:11 PM
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https://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/...1-fa8e70cd2a00


Don't know what to say. You got a link to the actual manufacturer of the bike/frame? None of the pages I looked at had the geometry specs or a sizing guide.

In North America, Absolute mostly comes up as a bike shop for rentals and retail sales of other brands.

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Old 02-03-21, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
What is your inseam and how much do you weigh?
Stop asking irrelevant questions. Rider weight and inseam very far down the list of things that affect how a bike fits and what size frame the rider should choose. Your insistence in asking these questions indicates that you are not at all qualified to dole out bike fitting advice. Please stop.
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Old 02-03-21, 10:28 PM
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Also watch out for toe strike at your preferred crank length with smaller frames.
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Old 02-04-21, 03:38 PM
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I keep seeing people bringing up toe strike and overlap. I guess they are talking about the toes interfering with the front wheel. However IMO, during normal riding when at speed more than 2 mph, I'd doubt anyone will ever want to turn the wheel sharp enough to make toe overlap an issue.

I have actually seen it happen once. My son and I were at a long red light. He'd let his front wheel flop all the way in one direction and when the light turned green, he somehow wound up with that foot and crank forward and couldn't go because he couldn't straighten the wheel. But since he wasn't moving, it wasn't a big deal, just a big embarrassment for the ribbing I gave him.

If I were to go look at all my bikes, I'd be sure that they have toe overlap, but I've never been concerned enough to look. I just feel it won't happen when moving on a bike. If I turn my wheel that much while at speed, I'm already well into the process of having a wreck.
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Old 02-04-21, 04:01 PM
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Can I compensate for a small ...

I got this far into the title and thought "Sure, buy a big truck that spews soot at cyclists."
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Old 02-04-21, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
However IMO, during normal riding when at speed more than 2 mph, I'd doubt anyone will ever want to turn the wheel sharp enough to make toe overlap an issue.
Dealing with Manila Rush hour traffic in the CBD I suppose New York rush hour traffic is similar. Damn lucky bastards who never had to deal with such conditions!
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Old 02-05-21, 08:08 AM
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I've had a CX bike with a bit of toe overlap. I only noticed it when riding singletrack in places that a CX bike really doesn't belong, trying to navigate rock gardens on 35mm tires. on roads—paved or dirt—moving at speed in basically a straight line, it was never a problem. I don't think buying the next size up would have solved my problem, and, if it did solve the toe problem, it would have created a lot of fit and handling problems.
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Old 02-05-21, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
Stop asking irrelevant questions. Rider weight and inseam very far down the list of things that affect how a bike fits and what size frame the rider should choose. Your insistence in asking these questions indicates that you are not at all qualified to dole out bike fitting advice. Please stop.
Come on man, inseam is very important. Weight not important.
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Old 02-05-21, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. 66 View Post
Come on man, inseam is very important. Weight not important.
inseam is important eventually, but
1. most people think of this as "pants size." without getting them to make the effort to accurately measure "cycling inseam," it could be misleading. to avoid confusion, I would ask this question LAST
2. it's down the list in order of importance, even when measured correctly.
3. with the sloping top tube on many bikes, the standover varies depending on where you stand over the bike. standover is not a fit measurement, but it's a safety concern for people on extreme ends of the height spectrum.
4. if the request for inseam has anything to do with determining the rider's proportions—like if they have long legs for their height—that could be interesting. however, it's a factor that most keyboard bike fitters (myself included) can't use effectively. the rider in question has to get on the bike IRL for that to be useful in the end. unless someone has mutant-like long/short legs, 99% of bikes in a size designed to fit someone of their height will fit regardless of standover.
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Old 02-05-21, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
inseam is important eventually, but
1. most people think of this as "pants size." without getting them to make the effort to accurately measure "cycling inseam," it could be misleading. to avoid confusion, I would ask this question LAST
2. it's down the list in order of importance, even when measured correctly.
3. with the sloping top tube on many bikes, the standover varies depending on where you stand over the bike. standover is not a fit measurement, but it's a safety concern for people on extreme ends of the height spectrum.
4. if the request for inseam has anything to do with determining the rider's proportions—like if they have long legs for their height—that could be interesting. however, it's a factor that most keyboard bike fitters (myself included) can't use effectively. the rider in question has to get on the bike IRL for that to be useful in the end. unless someone has mutant-like long/short legs, 99% of bikes in a size designed to fit someone of their height will fit regardless of standover.
So if I had to guess, it would be a combination of torso length, arm length, and inseam.

Inseam, height and weight could be a decent starting point for a keyboard bike fitter (...?) because you'll automatically know how long the torso is in proportion to the legs, and how heavy they are.

But it's very basic, unless you know specifically what their body fat percentage, you still have very little idea where that weight is centered, and what sort of fit works best for them.

I'm sure you can give a person basic guidelines regarding fit over the internet, but thats about it.
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Old 02-05-21, 12:36 PM
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for people with average proportions—and by that I mean more than 95% of people—a well designed bike will fit them as the designer intended if they pick the right frame size based on their height alone. getting the details of saddle and handlebar position is secondary and has to be tuned IRL with the rider on the bike. If you are among the tiny minority of people who have proportions so unusual that you need a different sized bike or a custom frame, you probably already know that and can plan accordingly. PBH, arm length(s), body weight, flexibility, etc. only come into play after you've picked a frame that is designed to fit you in a general sense. the best advice anyone can really give remotely—although we're all tempted to try anyways—is to get the rider to become aware of what is working and not working about their fit, and what to generally do about it. "does this feel weird? does it hurt? try moving [component X] in this direction." if the rider is mindful of how their body fits on the bike and can make adjustments accordingly, they can get pretty darn near a perfect fit with enough time for trial and error. providing this kind of guidance requires a fair bit of understanding of how it works.

if the person giving advice rides a bike that looks like itwas pulled it out of a dumpster and was set up for use it in a juggling clown street performance routine, that rider's advice is probably not going to be helpful.

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Old 02-05-21, 12:55 PM
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Yea well, this is the most valuable point we can all get out of it.

i always see people delving over secondary details like shifting, brakes, frame material, things that are measurably useless in comparison to frame geometry. I do wish people were more diligent in actively learning what sort of fit works for them. Its really not that difficult. With the help of people like you, and some research on the internet, you can learn enough to get a baseline idea. From that point onwards, some continued fine tuning will really change the way you enjoy your bike.
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Old 02-05-21, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
if the person giving advice rides a bike that looks like itwas pulled it out of a dumpster and was set up for use it in a juggling clown street performance routine, that rider's advice is probably not going to be helpful.
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Old 02-05-21, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
I've had a CX bike with a bit of toe overlap. I only noticed it when riding singletrack in places that a CX bike really doesn't belong, trying to navigate rock gardens on 35mm tires.
That too. I don't go singletrack but dealing with severe traffic, I often had to make a sharp right turn into the kerb to use the walkpath when all lanes are blocked and there's not enough space to squeeze between cars. Walk path can have insane amount of obstacles during rush hour, people, parked bikes, definitely can't get through fast and you need to make lots of very sharp turns.

Toe strike was enough consideration I went for a frame size that is bigger than my preferred size.
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Old 02-06-21, 04:23 PM
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I scuffed the front of my nice shoes a few times due to toe strike dying up some very steep hills and tacking at low speed, but since my bike has a pretty long front-center measurement for a size 53, it really doesn't happen unless I get out of the saddle.

Different manufacturers have different geometries, if I recall correctly Canyon also had a reasonably long front-center measurement on it's size S race bikes while Specialized was noticeably shorter. Sometimes the one size up bike has a different headtube angle than the smaller one and ends up being shorter.

If it bothers you, check geometry charts but outside of switchbacks up steep stuff I don't see it as causing an issue.
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Old 02-06-21, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Branko D View Post
Sometimes the one size up bike has a different headtube angle than the smaller one and ends up being shorter.
That would really suck. Wish mfg's gave more attention to toe strike. Not everyone will race their bikes and a little bit of toe clearance won't make the bike suck so incredibly in handling.
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Old 02-06-21, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
i always see people delving over secondary details like shifting, brakes, frame material, things that are measurably useless in comparison to frame geometry.
Lots of people here already got their fit dialed in, often by professional fitters.

So all they care about are shifting, brakes, emptying wallet, etc.
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Old 02-12-21, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by felipe.m View Post
I am 197cm (~6ft4) ... The biggest one available is 58x58 cm (seat tube and top tube), whereas the ideal would be at least a 62.
Would it be ok to get it along with longer seatpost and stem? Or will my lower back kill me afterwards?
Many thanks, cheers!
The ideal would probably be 62mm'ish, which seem to be readily availble. To actually know It's gotten to where it's going to involve a bike shop. Let me start talking about extending seatposts and extending handlebar Heights that's when I think the customer should start thinking about upping lping the size of the frame.

I'm 6'5". And I once had a Schwinn Le Tour III that was 27" and I think it was just a little bit too tall, 26 is about right for me which equates to 62 millimeters however I have been on a 63mm bike (27") and it fit better than the schwinn 27!

Those 63mm framesets are also available or these bikes come up for sale pretty frequently depending on what you're looking for. But yes I think that 58mm could very well turn out to be a disappointment. And I know what it's like to live with a disappointment bicycle for a number of years and for me, it was the 27" frame.

But a proper fitting in a proper shop, with proper footwear proper togs and the like would be advisable, especially if you are close to, or approaching life outside the 90th percentile where tall people dwell.

Last edited by UncleG; 02-12-21 at 05:41 AM.
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