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Between the sizes - road bike

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Between the sizes - road bike

Old 02-11-23, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Although some bike brands now use "endurance" to describe a more relaxed fit compared to a race fit. IMO, all typical bikes we consider a road bike are a endurance geometry bike. If you notice, race fit bikes are used by many that put 100 - 140 miles a day on their bikes. I'd think that qualifies as endurance use..
Ok, but then... everything becomes relative. If racing is equivalent to "endurance", then the big weight and oversized components of the endurance bike do not fit racing requirements (I mean on pure road, not Paris Roubaix). On a special event, I had the occasion to touch Vincenzo Nibaly's retired "golden bike". I lifted it with one finger and I don't think it reached 6 kg weight (unless if you add special weights to comply with rules). Definitely skinny and ultra light, very far from the bulky bikes that are ranked as "Endurance".
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Old 02-11-23, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Redbullet
Thanks. Now, with this explanation, I'll try to simplify using real figures from their sizing chart. I use Reach+ and Stack+, since they include the length and angle of the stem, which can not be counted separately, because it is integrated. For the same height, we have the following recommendations:

For 84cm inseam:
Top tube length, up to the handlebar: 635mm
Stack+ (Stack up to the handlebar): 635mm

For 85cm inseam: 659mm
Top tube length, up to the handlebar: 659mm (24mm longer)
Stack+ (Stack up to the handlebar): 656mm (21mm higher)

So, apart from the fact that longer leg (85cm) is positioned a few mm backward compared with 84 (because the saddle is higher), and the torso is smaller with 10mm, it is further “penalized” with 24mm in longer top tube. In total, it might add up to more than 30mm longer distance to cover from saddle to handlebar if your inseam is just 10mm longer. The 21mm higher stack+ will not compensate for that, I think.
So yes, there might be a suspicion that they do it wrong, maybe adding some 20mm too much to the length of the bigger size bike top tube.
I'm having a hard time following all this. Would you mind divulging what website you're looking at for these numbers - and lack of spacer options?
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Old 02-11-23, 07:53 PM
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I found this cool website.. https://bikeinsights.com/compare
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Old 02-12-23, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Redbullet
Ok, but then... everything becomes relative. If racing is equivalent to "endurance", then the big weight and oversized components of the endurance bike do not fit racing requirements (I mean on pure road, not Paris Roubaix). On a special event, I had the occasion to touch Vincenzo Nibaly's retired "golden bike". I lifted it with one finger and I don't think it reached 6 kg weight (unless if you add special weights to comply with rules). Definitely skinny and ultra light, very far from the bulky bikes that are ranked as "Endurance".
And that's where I have the issue of the use of the term Endurance. Back well before the turn of the century there was a term used to assess bike geometries. It was largely based on the seat tube angle. Cruisers had a very slack seat tube. Time trial bikes had a much more vertical seat tube. Neither of those bikes being anything desired for very long distances. Cruisers were comfortable but weren't efficient for power transfer. TT bikes were very efficient in power transfer, but most didn't want to ride for long periods of time on them. In the middle where what was called endurance geometry and those tended to be called road bikes. Within that endurance geometry you could get a bike with a relaxed fit or a aggressive fit. But regardless of which fit you got, it was and is still an endurance geometry bike. You can ride a endurance geometry bike comfortably for many miles. Some will do that with a relaxed fit which for reason odd to me have come to be known as endurance fit. And others will do that comfortably in a aggressive fit which has come to be known as a race fit.

Originally Posted by Redbullet
Ok, but then... everything becomes relative.
It's been relative. That's why there is no one right answer.
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Old 02-12-23, 12:44 PM
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There is no one industry definition of "endurance". It isn't a geometry, an equipment spec or a ride quality. It is a contrast the manufacturer makes between its race bikes and slightly less sporty road bikes.


I find this thread infuriating because the OP refuses to divulge these mystery brands that have spacerless steerer tubes and no handlebars to purchase.
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Old 02-12-23, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
There is no one industry definition of "endurance". It isn't a geometry, an equipment spec or a ride quality. It is a contrast the manufacturer makes between its race bikes and slightly less sporty road bikes.


I find this thread infuriating because the OP refuses to divulge these mystery brands that have spacerless steerer tubes and no handlebars to purchase.
I'll add multiple complaints about why buying the right bike from this particular DTC brand is difficult, but (what appears to be) a lack willingness to find another option.

Measurements only get you part of the way. We might be the same height, weight, and have the same limb lengths, but our preference of bike fit might be quite different. For me, I can pretty much guarantee I can get a bike to fit my preferences based just on a couple of frame measurements, but that's because I've done this for a long time, and I know exactly how I like my bikes set up. Without that experience, it's a gamble, and you can expect that you're going to be replacing some parts after the fact as you start to understand your own fit more.
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Old 02-12-23, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
I'll add multiple complaints about why buying the right bike from this particular DTC brand is difficult, but (what appears to be) a lack willingness to find another option..
Not lack of willingness. I think I mentioned that LBS in my country have a very limited offer in terms of types of bikes. It would be frustrating to spend some 25% higher price, just for a random bike that happens to be available in my size at the LBS.
I think I'll manage somehow with tables and measurements.
In fact, the big issue (sometimes a game changer) is the integrated handlebar (which, as I sad, I do not really need). With non integrated bars, it would not be so difficult to adjust +/-2 cm in Reach, with a new stem of 50-80 EUR.
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Old 02-12-23, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Redbullet
Sorry, that was not my intention.
LBS offer in my country is not only overpriced, but also very limited in terms of bike types, so, I might not have other choice than to contact and buy directly from one of the two targeted suppliers in EU. In this context, it might not be wise for me to challenge the brand in contradictory discussions on the forum, regarding their sizing method.
Unless you plan on paying with the name "Redbullet", I can't imagine how this mystery company could hold you responsible what is posted here.
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Old 02-12-23, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Redbullet
Sorry, that was not my intention.
LBS offer in my country is not only overpriced, but also very limited in terms of bike types, so, I might not have other choice than to contact and buy directly from one of the two targeted suppliers in EU. In this context, it might not be wise for me to challenge the brand in contradictory discussions on the forum, regarding their sizing method.
Just for reference, I attach the table that I assessed, but there is no need for others to jump in a detailed effort of analyzing it. I shall just measure reach+ and stack+ on my actual bike (although not easy to make it at home with the ruler), then Ill take a decision.

so, this is obviously the geo chart for a canyon ultimate. https://www.canyon.com/en-us/road-bi...rGridContainer

the integrated cockpit claims to have 15mm of vertical adjustability, and they offer it in two sizes, 90x390 and 100x410, which does seem quite few compared to other integrated cockpits from major brands. perhaps you can email canyon and ask them.

I’m sure we have a lot of canyon riders here, you would get way better advice if you just asked about the specific bike in question.
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Old 02-12-23, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Redbullet
In fact, the big issue (sometimes a game changer) is the integrated handlebar (which, as I sad, I do not really need). With non integrated bars, it would not be so difficult to adjust +/-2 cm in Reach, with a new stem of 50-80 EUR.
Buy the bike, buy the bar and stem you want, and sell the integrated bar. This has been mentioned before. There are ways to work around things.

Or, keep throwing up road blocks.
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Old 02-12-23, 06:51 PM
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WTF. Just checked back into this thread and it is a classic BF dog and pony show. Still don't know the manufacturer, why the secret? What mysterious location only provides one online source for bicycles? Bike shops are so over priced the purchaser is required to purchase a bike which will not fit? Finally the OP has been a member for over 7 years and offers no solutions to this ridiculously easy problem to solve. Something does not add up here.
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Old 02-13-23, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
WTF. Just checked back into this thread and it is a classic BF dog and pony show. Still don't know the manufacturer, why the secret? What mysterious location only provides one online source for bicycles? Bike shops are so over priced the purchaser is required to purchase a bike which will not fit? Finally the OP has been a member for over 7 years and offers no solutions to this ridiculously easy problem to solve. Something does not add up here.
I smell the need to be spoon-fed the answer to a riddle he cannot solve for himself. However, only he has the answer. He just doesn't know it yet.
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Old 02-13-23, 04:32 AM
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I am really sorry for bothering, I didn't imagine that this thread might create such a discomfort.
Please ignore it, I'll try to see whether it can be deleted.
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Old 02-13-23, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Redbullet
I am really sorry for bothering, I didn't imagine that this thread might create such a discomfort.
Please ignore it, I'll try to see whether it can be deleted.
Why not just be honest and open about where you are and what brands you're looking at? Because it seems like you have some bad information and could use some help figuring out what is actually available to you.
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Old 02-13-23, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Redbullet
I took a deeper look on the geometry:
"Reach+" is 18mm longer for bigger size (10 mm probably come from longer handlebar - call it “stem”, although it is integrated).
"Stack+" is 21 mm higher for bigger size.
Are those significant differences for comfort?

And regarding the “inseam” measure: if I press a little more, I am at the lower limit of the bigger size bike. Arm span minus height ratio - which I have just red that it counts - is +2 or 3 cm.
This is very simple.

Your upper body should be prioritized with that data.

Go for the longer reach frame.

My ape ratio is close to 1.05. I usually am offered a 58 cm or 61 cm. Using the type of online tools that you have apparently used is indispensable. Note that although the integrated bar and stem cannot be easily or cheaply changed, when you insert spacers or take them out, you can effectively change the effective reach. A small amount of compromise can be made in the saddle fore/aft adjustment. The risk of erring on insufficient reach is ending up with a 150mm stem.
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