Specialized Romin EVO Pro with Mirror: fitting advice
 

I've been feeling a wee bit uncomfortable on my Brooks B-17 after 10 years, a little bit of weight loss, and 10 years of aging, so I have been undergoing a round of musical saddles at home.

My second-favorite leather saddle is a Berthoud Apsin, so I put that back on my bike. After riding it for about two years, it started to develop hints of breaking in, and it began to get uncomfortable around mile 35, especially when climbing hard. But overall I like the form-factor and the shape more than my Brooks B17. I put it back on the bike, and everything was bliss until mile 35. I played around with the saddle tilt (I tend to nose saddles down slightly, more than recommended) and height, but no dice. I guess what is good for Jan Heine's heine is not necessarily ideal from mine. (My approximate body shape, despite losing a bit of weight recently, is still best described as "lard-arse."

About five years ago I was at Sea Otter and stopped by the SQLabs booth. They measured my heine and determined my inter-ischial protuberance distance to be a bog-standard 120mm, and gave me a discount coupon to purchase a 14cm 611 active saddle, which I did. Although I did not fall in love with that saddle, it was quite good, and my wife seems to really like it, so it is on her titanium all-road bike. (612 is really their road saddle, 611 is their mountain saddle, but they are more similar than different. They have now also introduced a 164 gravel saddle, which appears to combine the best of both worlds. I may get one).

I tried a Bontrager Verse that came off my daughter's Domane (she has a favorite saddle) and it was surprisingly comfortable (albeit a bit wide at 155 mm).

But two days ago my wife suggested I try one of those 3D printed saddles, so I got measured up at one of the twelve dozen Specialized LBSs in the region.

They put you on a Retul arse-o-meter, and it wants your age, sex (not gender), height, riding position. social security number, voting history and blood type. It phones home. The connection gets dropped several times. Finally, it takes a reading. We do it twice. 109 mm.

Either my pelvis shrank 11mm, or I put in the wrong social security and bank account details. But it came up with a recommendation consistent with the earlier measurement as well, making me suspicious that the thing works like an 8-ball (remember those?) stuck on one possible answer: The $350 Specialized Romin EVO Pro with Mirror, 143 mm.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...717e22b67.jpeg


So after a couple of minutes of hemming and hawing and questions about the 30 return policy (bottom line -- pun intended -- if it doesn't feel like a flock of angels caressing your back-side, I can bring it back for a refund and a round of public humiliation, and by the way, the thing will wind up in a landfill and destroy the planet, which will be entirely my fault).

So off I go, with my new purchase. I dutifully install it on my very-much non BIG BICYCLE boutique steed, and the next morning we go on a comparatively easy 50 mile ride (Carmel and the 17 mile drive, since now that I am spending $350 on a saddle, I might as well mix it up with the ultra-rich.)

I was 10 miles into the ride and thinking that Specialized actually isn't so bad (if you ignore their litigation department), and they do seem to get ergonomic design in a way that the other BIG BIKE cabals apparently don't. The saddle felt like a good, broken in leather saddle that just worked, no drama. I guess their designers really nailed it, and the fitting worked, despite the highly unlikely result of lard-arse having a 109 Sitz bone spacing. (They only have 2 widths, and I would have picked 143 based on my previous, more plausible, measurement of 120mm anyway.)

As we rode the gently rolling Five Star coastal road between the white sand beaches of Monterey Bay and the endless golf courses and modest 30-room mansions, it started.

First it was the shooting pain in my legs and hip. This wasn't at the saddle interface. It was well outside the perimeter of the saddle. But it was kind of shocking, as in never before experienced shocking. I did what any reasonable person would do at that point: I ignored it and hoped it would go away.

It did not.

After a few more such miles, I eventually lowered the saddle. That seemed to help. For a little while. But then it was a different, additional, set of pains. The second set was more what I would consider conventional saddle pain, like when you are trying to break in a new Berthoud saddle, freshly dispensed from the cement mixer.

I did a lot of standing and sitting, adjusting saddle height, tilt, fore-aft, and each of these brought temporary relief. But after five miles it always began to hurt. Around 25 miles, I nosed the thing up as far as my Enve seatpost enabled me to, and we turned around to head back. This was a bit of a revelation, because the distal leg shooting pains began to subside. But by that time my saddle contact points were really screaming. I continued to play with saddle height, mostly, for the second half of the ride.

At about mile 35, I really began to covet the narcotic pain killers I have been hoarding since ankle surgery 11.5 years ago, and wondered if I would be able to complete the ride standing up. I was squirming around pretty much constantly by the time we got to the end, and we decided to cancel dinner plans and head home.

I am still a wee bit sore today, but considering 12 hours ago I was fantasizing a night of popping vicodin and reading beatnick poetry, I guess I am ok.

I'll give the saddle another try today if my rear end will allow. But I have a bad feeling I am going to have to put that Specialized 30 day, no questions asked, return policy to the test. I suspect their legal department is already fired up.

But before I give in, does anyone with a positive experience with this saddle, who isn't an AI bot, have any suggestions?

I really was hoping I could get this to work, and the funny thing is, I feel like it is right at the edge of working, and one magical saddle position tweak is all that is needed.

B17 being a different type of saddle entirely, I'd expect you will have issues on longer rides till you get height and maybe angle squared away. As well as just getting use to the new way of sitting on the saddle. Depending on what that pain was, sometimes continuing on isn't the right thing to do. Though then how you gonna get home. So just continue on as best you can. Give it time to heal.

Curious though about your 109mm sit bones compared to what you said previously was 120mm. Was that older measurement the actual sit bone measurement or the size saddle they recommended based on your sit bone measurement. Usuaully you add 15 or 20 mm, IIRC, to the sit bone measurement to get your saddle size.

What size saddle did you actually get? If you stated it, then obviously I missed it.

After saying for 4 years that I need to replace the saddle that came on my Tarmac, I'm closer to pulling the trigger. 3D saddles are intriguing. So I appreciate your thoughts and experience with it. I still tend to lean towards a Selle Italia flow or superflow of some sort, which was on my previous bike and was a very comfortable saddle for long rides. But surprisingly not so much for short rides compared to my current and other saddles that definitely aren't comfortable for long rides..

SQLabs measured me at 120mm (their rep at Sea Otter, so presumably he knew what he was doing), which is also consistent with the indentations in my Brooks. I think the 109mm is almost certainly incorrect, unless they don't measure center to center for some reason.

SQLabs says for someone who has bars only slightly below saddle (i.e., what I have), I ride "semi-upright." Thus 120mm + 20mm = 140mm saddle recommendation. (The Specialized saddle is 143mm, so essentially the same result.) It is quite possible 143mm is too narrow, as their saddle has more of a curve than my Brooks or SQlabs saddles. The 155mm Bontrager Versa saddle that my daughter's bike came with was a little bit too wide, but I haven't tried their narrower one. (She lovers her Selle Italia flow diva or whatever it is called.) When I say too wide, I mean it interfered with my legs. The Brooks should be way too wide by this standard, but it isn't. It could probably benefit from some lacing, but I don't possess that skill set.

I probably should not have started with a 50 mile ride, but at least I brought 4mm and 5mm allen keys so I could mess with it. It is normally an "easy" 50 miles. My wife did it just before, and soon after, hip replacement.

Interesting that you mention the curve of the new saddle. You are talking about the cross section curve from side to side aren't you? My Selle Italia had a lot of that... IIRC, compared to what I've been riding on. And I've sort of wondered if that is why I found it very comfortable for longer rides over 40 miles, but not so much for rides of just 30 miles or less.

Yes, the cross-sectional curve.

My thoughts, no special ortho knowledge.

A custom fit, polymer saddle, should not require any break-in. Not the saddle, not you. If it feels bad, return it promptly and get your money back.

I rode a traditional leather saddle for decades, but it and the bike it's on is DEEP in storage so I started with the cheap saddle on my folder, made do. But then I found a saddle laying in the gutter ("it fell off a truck bike"), looked like new. Wider and flatter than I typically use. Tried tilting it about level in my normal position, immediate pain along the top "edges" of the nose. Tilted it more down, so really all the weight is on my buttocks, not the crotch. Amazingly comfortable. Been riding it for over a year. After a while I recognized that it is the exact same model as on the various rental bikes. (Whom I called for a year telling them about one of their bikes halfway down an easy ravine, they never picked it up. So I doubt they would come get a saddle. Plus I don't know which brand of bike it came off, if it did.) Makes sense; A saddle to fit most butts. Someday I may get the old leather saddle out of storage to compare.

I've started to consider those butt-o-meters to cause more harm than good. They give you a reading from the wrong place (ie. too far behind) so it's not really useful for fitting a saddle, UNLESS you're fitting a bike with a bolt upright seating position. However when one rides a road bike or a mountain bike one tends to tilt the pelvis forward. This means that the contact point shifts from the butt-o-meter measured point forwards along the pubic rami (the pelvic arches which contact the saddle). The rami narrow going forward and so depending on your pelvic tilt the actual width you need may be dramatically less than a butt-o-meter would indicate.

For example my measured sitbone width is around 135mm. That'd put me on a 155m saddle, but that's incredibly too wide for me. The saddle I do use has a functional seating width of around 110mm. But since I tilt my pelvis forward the point that contacts the saddle is at the narrower part of my pubic rami and is beneath that 110mm value.

The other thing people don't even consider is the pubic angle, ie the angle at which the pubic rami separate from the front attachment point (this would be easier with pictures). But why would anyone consider it since it's not easy to measure. Either you need an MRI or a very open minded trusting life partner and some aluminum foil.
But this pubic angle effectively dictates the shape of your saddle (T-shape or triangle shape), it's length and nose width. Some would call those pretty important metrics. For reference if I paint with a broad brush, women tend to have more obtuse angled pubic arches whereas men tend to have more acute pubic arches. In an extreme generalization this means that women would be best served with a T-shaped saddle whereas men need more of a triangle shape. But there's so much variation that such generalization is pointless. But it can give people pointers.

In the end the butt-o-meter measures two points in a triangle in a situation where the whole triange with all its parameters matters. It's not very helpful.

They indeed did have me sit at 90°. However, my measurement was implausibly narrow, and the only recommended saddle was 143mm wide, so I am at a loss. (I don't think 143mm is too wide for me, especially in my bars almost level with the saddle height semi-upright position).

Mirror?

Specialized mirror technology. It means fancy cushion.

very odd result.

i have two of the s-works version of those saddles. I used the DIY ass measuring technology (a piece of cardboard) and interestingly also came up with the smaller (143) recommendation. apparently there isn’t all that much relationship between overall body dimensions and sit bone spacing.

unfortunately I have no idea why a saddle would have produced such pain for you; but I highly, highly doubt it’s the width. for reasons which are not interesting to visit, the two s-works romin evo pro with mirror saddles I have are different sizes - 143 and 155 - and i can’t say it makes much difference at all. perhaps that’s because I’m in between sizes so one is a smudge big and one a smidge small, but I have always found both of them very comfy. I had a bit of chafing with the “power with mirror” which is wider and shorter, but as long as it’s at the right height and position fore and aft, zero problems with either width of romin.

I probably need to mess with it more. This all got started because a Brooks that was fine for 10 years suddenly isn't. I think it is more likely me (muscle loss) than it is the saddle.

I've been doing some glut bridges regularly and some other things that strengthen ones lower back and core muscles. I haven't had a issue with saddles, but my gluts have always been non-existent and even more so as I go further into retirement.

Working on my gluts has helped with the amount of weight I feel my hands and arms carrying. If you don't have that issue, the glut bridges might help with your butt issue.

That's exactly what my kid told me (who is into weight lifting in addition to bikes). He said cycling essentially isolates the glutes and leaves them underdeveloped, and that has a detrimental effect on any other muscle groups that act antagonistically.

I am now trying this on my X C bike. I've only put on six miles, so it is too soon to know.

I did one steep sustained climb and verified the previous experience in the context of my XC bike.

Back it goes.

I really wanted to like this thing, but it sure didn't like me.

The Romin EVO Pro?

With all the other chatter in here, I just want to be sure which you are talking about. And for me it'd help to restate what that previous experience is to make certain I didn't miss something in a later post.

Yes, I retuned the Romin EVO PRO mirror saddle, 143mm, the saddle that was the original subject of this post.

Briefly, I was unable to get comfortable on it, on two different bikes (my best all-road bike and my best mountain bike), and it wasn't for lack of trying. On long rides, or even long climbs, it became absurdly uncomfortable.

Interestingly, I was talking to the bike fitter specialist at the shop today where I purchased and returned it, and he told me he tried two of them (I think two sizes, maybe two models), and never got comfortable. Presumably with him it wasn't user error. (I keep thinking I must have been doing something wrong, because it was so extremely unpleasant.)

Sorry to hear you ran into such issues with this saddle. I'd be curious to hear if you found a new saddle that kept that problem from coming back.

Personally, I have been riding the 155mm version of the Romin Evo Pro Mirror saddle for my new road bike about 2 months now and I love it. It's the most comfortable saddle I've ridden. My previous road bike had a 15 year old Specialized Avatar in a 143mm ... similar design/shape saddle but according to my bike fitter, was much too narrow for my fat butt. And with all my other bikes and saddles over the years, nothing feels as nice (to me) as the Romin Evo Pro Mirror for long rides. Hope your next saddle works out better.

I currently have an Ergon SR Allroad Core Pro Saddle M/L and it is vastly more comfortable, with minimal adjustment.

I do wonder if it was too narrow. I'm almost certain they mismeasured me. I didn't have the heart to try the wider one. (Despite electrical tape and my best effort, I think I scratched one of the rails up bad enough to prevent resale.) I can't help but think I was doing something wrong (and insufficient width is easiest to imagine). The M/L saddle I am on now has a lower bound of 120mm, which is what the SQLabs guy measured me as having, and is rather close to average. One look at me and you would know that 109 mm is an impossibility.

I should also mention I am reasonably comfortable on the SQLabs active saddle I was fitted for. I have it on my mountain bike. I get a bit of pain on the left side after about 15 or 20 miles. I recently noticed the saddle is either slightly bent or has a manufacturing defect that results in the left side sitting slightly higher. My wife rode on it for a couple of years and really liked it, but then found it problematic after she had a hip replacement.