Seat Height / Leg Angle
09-11-14, 10:50 AM
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Seat Height / Leg Angle
I developed some pain in my neck and shoulders a month ago. I was riding a lot, and have several bikes and was spending time on a cross bike where I recently changed the saddle and I think this led to the issue. I went to physio (I'm still going) and it's much better. While going to physio, I decided to change to a flatter saddle on my main road bike (was 'falling' forward on the previous one), and have already felt the improvement as there is less pressure being put on my hands and through my arms, neck and shoulders. I took this bike, with the new saddle (ridden a few times), for a bike fitting with my physio guy. He does do some cycling, but isn't a bike fit expert...however, it was a good experience and we confirmed that my posture on the bike was pretty good (spine angle, arms, neck, etc.). One recommendation was to raise my handlebar a bit (one spacer above the stem that I could move below) so that there is even less pressure on hands/arms.
With that as context, one thing he did mention is that my leg angle at the bottom of the pedal stroke was 40 degrees. We both are aware that 25 degrees is recommended (or 25-35). My knee is in a good position (over the pedal spindle), but does drop inwards a bit on the downstroke (and corrects on the up stroke - I got to watch this as he recorded me pedalling). So...a part of me wants to raise the seat 3-5mm, but I'm worried that doing so will negatively impact my previous issue of too much pressure on hands/arms. I'm more about comfort over power, but I do ride 8-10 hours a week so I'm on the bike enough to notice any positive improvements I can make.
Thoughts?
Note - I'm not actually going to make any changes at the moment. I'm going to ride more and see how it goes, for now. If/when I change anything, it's only in small increments, and one thing at a time (other than possibly raising seat/bars at the same time, as the initial change).
Thanks!
With that as context, one thing he did mention is that my leg angle at the bottom of the pedal stroke was 40 degrees. We both are aware that 25 degrees is recommended (or 25-35). My knee is in a good position (over the pedal spindle), but does drop inwards a bit on the downstroke (and corrects on the up stroke - I got to watch this as he recorded me pedalling). So...a part of me wants to raise the seat 3-5mm, but I'm worried that doing so will negatively impact my previous issue of too much pressure on hands/arms. I'm more about comfort over power, but I do ride 8-10 hours a week so I'm on the bike enough to notice any positive improvements I can make.
Thoughts?
Note - I'm not actually going to make any changes at the moment. I'm going to ride more and see how it goes, for now. If/when I change anything, it's only in small increments, and one thing at a time (other than possibly raising seat/bars at the same time, as the initial change).
Thanks!
09-11-14, 12:01 PM
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More people ride with saddles too low than too high. 25 - 35 is a generous spread and if you are outside of that I would consider raising the saddle 5mm. Maybe more. You say nothing of where the bars are now in relation to the seat or where they would be if you raised the saddle. You should be comfortable with the bars up to an inch below saddle height. Some riders have their bars as much as 4" below saddle height. Drop bars should never be above saddle height. Flat-bars can be level with and up to 4" and more above saddle height. There are hipsters rocking flat-bars that are well below saddle height. Clear as mud?
H
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09-12-14, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
More people ride with saddles too low than too high. 25 - 35 is a generous spread and if you are outside of that I would consider raising the saddle 5mm. Maybe more. You say nothing of where the bars are now in relation to the seat or where they would be if you raised the saddle. You should be comfortable with the bars up to an inch below saddle height. Some riders have their bars as much as 4" below saddle height. Drop bars should never be above saddle height. Flat-bars can be level with and up to 4" and more above saddle height. There are hipsters rocking flat-bars that are well below saddle height. Clear as mud?
H
H
09-13-14, 07:12 AM
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Your saddle is way too low. You are not getting full power and will injure your knees. (Walk a block with your knees bent 40 deg, then compare to walking with your legs fully extended.)
Raise the saddle (gradually). Your bar tops will be 2" or so below the saddle. That is a common amount of drop. If you don't adapt to it, raise the stem or get a higher stem (more of an angle) and possibly a shorter stem too.
As for excess pressure on the hands:
- Make sure your saddle is horizontal, and try tilting it slightly nose up. Often people have their saddle nose down, so they are sliding forward and using their hands to push back, thus they complain of excess hand pressure.
- Try moving your saddle rearwards on the post. Don't worry about being precisely KOPS, that isn't important. Often, people are too far forward which also increases the pressure on their hands, and moving their butt rearward makes them more balanced.
Raise the saddle (gradually). Your bar tops will be 2" or so below the saddle. That is a common amount of drop. If you don't adapt to it, raise the stem or get a higher stem (more of an angle) and possibly a shorter stem too.
As for excess pressure on the hands:
- Make sure your saddle is horizontal, and try tilting it slightly nose up. Often people have their saddle nose down, so they are sliding forward and using their hands to push back, thus they complain of excess hand pressure.
- Try moving your saddle rearwards on the post. Don't worry about being precisely KOPS, that isn't important. Often, people are too far forward which also increases the pressure on their hands, and moving their butt rearward makes them more balanced.
Last edited by jyl; 09-13-14 at 07:15 AM.
09-13-14, 07:53 AM
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5mm is only .200 which is obviously less than a quarter inch. Not that much different than what your at now.
09-13-14, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jyl
Your saddle is way too low. You are not getting full power and will injure your knees. (Walk a block with your knees bent 40 deg, then compare to walking with your legs fully extended.)
Raise the saddle (gradually). Your bar tops will be 2" or so below the saddle. That is a common amount of drop. If you don't adapt to it, raise the stem or get a higher stem (more of an angle) and possibly a shorter stem too.
As for excess pressure on the hands:
- Make sure your saddle is horizontal, and try tilting it slightly nose up. Often people have their saddle nose down, so they are sliding forward and using their hands to push back, thus they complain of excess hand pressure.
- Try moving your saddle rearwards on the post. Don't worry about being precisely KOPS, that isn't important. Often, people are too far forward which also increases the pressure on their hands, and moving their butt rearward makes them more balanced.
Raise the saddle (gradually). Your bar tops will be 2" or so below the saddle. That is a common amount of drop. If you don't adapt to it, raise the stem or get a higher stem (more of an angle) and possibly a shorter stem too.
As for excess pressure on the hands:
- Make sure your saddle is horizontal, and try tilting it slightly nose up. Often people have their saddle nose down, so they are sliding forward and using their hands to push back, thus they complain of excess hand pressure.
- Try moving your saddle rearwards on the post. Don't worry about being precisely KOPS, that isn't important. Often, people are too far forward which also increases the pressure on their hands, and moving their butt rearward makes them more balanced.
10-05-14, 09:31 AM
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Thought I would update, with the thought of future searches from folks with similar issues...
I still have the seat at the level after raised 5mm. Have made no other changes. The fit feels good...I can lift my hands off the tops/hoods and not fall forward, and I feel good off the bike, next day, etc. On a second bike, I mimicked the fit as best as I could, and that bike is also fine. Only issue I've had is I love riding gravel roads, and the only time my shoulder/neck pain has come back is on such rides. I'm hoping that once my body is back to 100% I can again ride these roads without issue. That said, it might be this bumpy style of riding that contributed to the neck/shoulder pain, but we'll see.
I still have the seat at the level after raised 5mm. Have made no other changes. The fit feels good...I can lift my hands off the tops/hoods and not fall forward, and I feel good off the bike, next day, etc. On a second bike, I mimicked the fit as best as I could, and that bike is also fine. Only issue I've had is I love riding gravel roads, and the only time my shoulder/neck pain has come back is on such rides. I'm hoping that once my body is back to 100% I can again ride these roads without issue. That said, it might be this bumpy style of riding that contributed to the neck/shoulder pain, but we'll see.
10-05-14, 06:30 PM
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Getting your bike fit dialed in for your riding can be a real challenge, especially if you ride a lot.
There are some interesting theories here and some good reading:
bikefitting.com | made to measure
I basically use the heel on pedal method with my leg straight with the cranks at 6:00 with my riding shoes (Adidas Samba).
I have found this works well for me and my distance from my seat height to handlebars is a bit over 2".
I also just place my saddle in the middle of the post and move forward or back to utilize different muscles.
After driving myself crazy with different adjustments I actually found that keeping my feet heavy on the pedals,(continuous pressure on the pedals/crank) and my hands light erased most all of my fitting issues.
I used to way over think my fit, so I try to keep it simple...
There are some interesting theories here and some good reading:
bikefitting.com | made to measure
I basically use the heel on pedal method with my leg straight with the cranks at 6:00 with my riding shoes (Adidas Samba).
I have found this works well for me and my distance from my seat height to handlebars is a bit over 2".
I also just place my saddle in the middle of the post and move forward or back to utilize different muscles.
After driving myself crazy with different adjustments I actually found that keeping my feet heavy on the pedals,(continuous pressure on the pedals/crank) and my hands light erased most all of my fitting issues.
I used to way over think my fit, so I try to keep it simple...
10-16-14, 09:54 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
More people ride with saddles too low than too high. 25 - 35 is a generous spread and if you are outside of that I would consider raising the saddle 5mm. Maybe more. You say nothing of where the bars are now in relation to the seat or where they would be if you raised the saddle. You should be comfortable with the bars up to an inch below saddle height. Some riders have their bars as much as 4" below saddle height. Drop bars should never be above saddle height. Flat-bars can be level with and up to 4" and more above saddle height. There are hipsters rocking flat-bars that are well below saddle height. Clear as mud?
H
H
When I got my first fitting he set me up for 30 degrees, because I needed to be in that range, and he wanted to reduce hip angle closure. My belly is somewhat in the way of my thigh. The changes he made were very small.
See how it feels, but keep notes on what you did and when so you can reverse the changes if the result turns bad.
11-02-14, 04:42 AM
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I ended up dropping it back down to the height I've always used. I've had a tight muscle in my leg since raising it 5mm, I thought it would go away after I'm more use to the change, but no luck. Feels better already!
