Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Folding Bikes
Reload this Page >

Hummingbird Bike (new kickstarter) 6.5 kg folding bike

Notices
Folding Bikes Discuss the unique features and issues of folding bikes. Also a great place to learn what folding bike will work best for your needs.

Hummingbird Bike (new kickstarter) 6.5 kg folding bike

Old 11-12-15, 12:08 AM
  #26  
darukhan
Senior Member
 
darukhan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Chicago-land
Posts: 269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by GTizzy View Post
Hey Petre!

I really like the rear aluminum swing arm—don't replace it with carbon!

Keep the alu rear, and pair it with this awesome chainring from Factory Five: https://www.wearefactoryfive.com/pro...tice-chainring

I second these suggestions!
darukhan is offline  
Old 11-12-15, 01:06 AM
  #27  
feijai
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 912
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by craciunptr View Post
The bike will also have an integrated handle in the main frame for easier handling.
Be aware of the CPSC's regulations regarding protrusions on bikes if you wish to import into the US.
feijai is offline  
Old 11-12-15, 04:56 AM
  #28  
Winfried
Senior Member
 
Winfried's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 2,170
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 414 Post(s)
Liked 75 Times in 65 Posts
Originally Posted by craciunptr View Post
- You will be able to mount a front rack / bag.
Does it mean it'll have a lug attached to the head tube so that we can screw a luggage block and carry a bag on the frame without affecting steering la Brompton/Tern/Dahon?
If yes, please make the lug the same size as the Brompton, so we can use those great bags from eg. RadicalDesign.

The lack of lug is one reason I'm not going back to the Birdy. It's just too convenient, especially when commuting.

--

Edit: Also, if you can, replace the chain with a belt drive. Zero maintenance, zero dirt on our pants/shoes. That would be a significant selling point against the Brompton.

Last edited by Winfried; 11-12-15 at 08:04 AM.
Winfried is offline  
Old 11-12-15, 10:46 AM
  #29  
bhkyte
Senior Member
 
bhkyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: York UK
Posts: 3,027

Bikes: 2X dualdrive Mezzo folder,plus others

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Birdie takes front panniers on the front rack which also doubles as a pull handle. Doesn't need a front bag lug.
bhkyte is offline  
Old 11-12-15, 11:21 AM
  #30  
wildpanda86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Great looking bike... I just saw it on the Uncrate website

So things I would like
- main frame needs a fold to bring the front wheel back. In Socal this is needed to be able to put it into the overhead rack on the Amtrack
- If it's light it probably doesn't need extra wheels to wheel around... but maybe an optional detacheable luggage carrier with wheels incase you want to run to the store and use as shopping cart

Essentially if you give it a Brompton fold in a more modern design I could want to sell off my Brompton for this.
wildpanda86 is offline  
Old 11-12-15, 11:23 AM
  #31  
invisiblehand
Part-time epistemologist
 
invisiblehand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 5,862

Bikes: Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by feijai View Post
The hummingbird folds about its bottom bracket. On your website the claim is made that this causes the chain to always be in tension and thus you never have chain drops. This is a pretty incredible claim, given that chain drops are notorious on other bikes (notably ones from Bike Friday) *because* they fold about the bottom bracket. This is why the tikit, for example, folds ahead of the bottom bracket, so the entire rear triangle (including the bottom bracket) folds as a unit and never drops the chain.
Traditionally, the hinge for a Bike Friday is behind the BB. No?

The Hummingbird hinge appears to be around and centered on the BB.
__________________
A narrative on bicycle driving.
invisiblehand is offline  
Old 11-12-15, 11:43 AM
  #32  
ThorUSA
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Olney Illinois USA
Posts: 1,021

Bikes: to many

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
drawing of folded bike
Yo are getting e front wheel inbetween the chain and the crankarm ?
After you take it off of course
Just wondering
ThorUSA is offline  
Old 11-12-15, 12:32 PM
  #33  
2_i 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,128

Bikes: Trek 730 (quad), 720 & 830, Bike Friday NWT, Brompton M27R & M6R, Dahon HAT060 & HT060, ...

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 586 Post(s)
Liked 156 Times in 122 Posts
I cannot see a thing on that page, besides top ribbon. Win 8.1+FF 42.0. Count me out
2_i is offline  
Old 11-12-15, 04:59 PM
  #34  
craciunptr
Junior Member
 
craciunptr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi All,

To answer a few questions:

Yes hummingbird will come with a standard threaded head lug, to which you can mount third party carrier bags, We are also developing our own commuting bag.

My initial concept included the use of a belt drive, it was one of the initial design constraints, but for the moment I chose to go with traditional chain due to the cost and availability of belt drive systems. In the future we are thinking of offering a belt drive model, but that will only happen if we reach 50k and add a stretch goal to our campaign! So please help us make this happen

The front wheel will come with a quick release that will allow for the fast removal of the front wheel to be mounted parallel to the front wheel reducing the overall size of the package.

Thanks,

Peter
craciunptr is offline  
Old 11-12-15, 05:00 PM
  #35  
craciunptr
Junior Member
 
craciunptr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 2_i View Post
I cannot see a thing on that page, besides top ribbon. Win 8.1+FF 42.0. Count me out
Please have a look at our kickstarter page It has all the information found on the website https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...t-folding-bike
craciunptr is offline  
Old 11-12-15, 06:56 PM
  #36  
Winfried
Senior Member
 
Winfried's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 2,170
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 414 Post(s)
Liked 75 Times in 65 Posts
Originally Posted by bhkyte View Post
Birdie takes front panniers on the front rack which also doubles as a pull handle. Doesn't need a front bag lug.
Except the weight will rest on the wheel instead of the frame, unlike the Brompton/Dahon/Tern.
Winfried is offline  
Old 11-13-15, 11:21 AM
  #37  
bhkyte
Senior Member
 
bhkyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: York UK
Posts: 3,027

Bikes: 2X dualdrive Mezzo folder,plus others

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
The front mount is only a plate with two threaded holes in it. They are easy enought to make up or fit one to the headtube using one way pull ties. I personally wouldnt let that option dictate your bike choice. It would be more difficult to convert a brommie to v brakes for instance. Where welding is required.
bhkyte is offline  
Old 11-14-15, 12:01 AM
  #38  
feijai
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 912
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
Traditionally, the hinge for a Bike Friday is behind the BB. No?
Oh, maybe! Okay, that solves that then.
feijai is offline  
Old 11-14-15, 05:05 AM
  #39  
Winfried
Senior Member
 
Winfried's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 2,170
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 414 Post(s)
Liked 75 Times in 65 Posts
Originally Posted by bhkyte View Post
The front mount is only a plate with two threaded holes in it. They are easy enought to make up or fit one to the headtube using one way pull ties. I personally wouldnt let that option dictate your bike choice.
I don't feel secure drilling holes in the head tube on the Birdy, although it's been done by Steve Parry:


Otherwise, a store in Shibuya, Tokyo sells a baggage block for the Birdy… which turned out to be utter crap when used by someone I know:


Bottom line: I think the Hummingbird should come with a lug welded to the head tube, and ideally, should be identical to the Brompton's.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
birdyfrc.jpg (23.2 KB, 28 views)

Last edited by Winfried; 11-14-15 at 05:16 AM.
Winfried is offline  
Old 11-14-15, 03:56 PM
  #40  
dynaryder
PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes
 
dynaryder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: BicycleSPACE warehouse in SW Washington DC
Posts: 6,980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
The lack of lug is one reason I'm not going back to the Birdy. It's just too convenient, especially when commuting.
Meh. I put the carrier block on my S6 and never used it. Didn't bother on my S2. It's just far more convenient for me to use a mess bag or back pack. If I have to haul a load,I have both a touring and a cargo bike. Also,most of the Brommie owners around here aren't using them either.

Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
Edit: Also, if you can, replace the chain with a belt drive. Zero maintenance, zero dirt on our pants/shoes. That would be a significant selling point against the Brompton.
Problem with a belt drive SS is gearing. With a chain,you can make it any length you need to for your ring/sprocket combo. With belts,you're limited to the belt lengths the manufacturers produce.
__________________

C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Dahon Speed Pro TT,Brompton S6L/S2E-X
dynaryder is offline  
Old 11-14-15, 09:39 PM
  #41  
craciunptr
Junior Member
 
craciunptr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
Meh. I put the carrier block on my S6 and never used it. Didn't bother on my S2. It's just far more convenient for me to use a mess bag or back pack. If I have to haul a load,I have both a touring and a cargo bike. Also,most of the Brommie owners around here aren't using them either.



Problem with a belt drive SS is gearing. With a chain,you can make it any length you need to for your ring/sprocket combo. With belts,you're limited to the belt lengths the manufacturers produce.
Hi
My original concept was to use a belt drive system but after careful consideration I realised that a chain is both more efficient and cheaper. With that being said the Hummingbird can easily be upgraded to a belt drive system as the drop outs are horizontal and the pivot is concentric to the BB. All you need is to do is to buy the belt drive system and install it. Also as I stated earlier I am looking into producing a belt drive option, an upgrade which will work on any Hummingbird.

Peter
craciunptr is offline  
Old 11-14-15, 11:24 PM
  #42  
tds101 
Wake up!!!
 
tds101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Mastic Beach, NY
Posts: 3,361

Bikes: 9+,...

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 747 Post(s)
Liked 251 Times in 158 Posts
I can't wait to see what the 16" wheeled 5 speed will be like.
__________________
If it wasn't for you meddling kids,...
tds101 is offline  
Old 11-16-15, 09:27 AM
  #43  
invisiblehand
Part-time epistemologist
 
invisiblehand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 5,862

Bikes: Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
Problem with a belt drive SS is gearing. With a chain,you can make it any length you need to for your ring/sprocket combo. With belts,you're limited to the belt lengths the manufacturers produce.
Also applies to IGHs broadly. For small wheels -- 16" -- the lack of small cogs makes getting higher gears difficult.
__________________
A narrative on bicycle driving.
invisiblehand is offline  
Old 11-16-15, 09:26 PM
  #44  
ThorUSA
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Olney Illinois USA
Posts: 1,021

Bikes: to many

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by craciunptr View Post
Hi
My original concept was to use a belt drive system but after careful consideration I realised that a chain is both more efficient and cheaper. With that being said the Hummingbird can easily be upgraded to a belt drive system as the drop outs are horizontal and the pivot is concentric to the BB. All you need is to do is to buy the belt drive system and install it. Also as I stated earlier I am looking into producing a belt drive option, an upgrade which will work on any Hummingbird.

Peter
Nothing is ever easy .... besides on kickstarter so it seems ...
there is not enough clearance for a belt and the correct large chainring, it will bump the rear stay , or will be so small that you have a gearing which allows to go 8 miles top speed with a comfortable cadence.

As for lugs in the headtube... there are millions of dahons and terns and others with that, just listening to the few ( albeit loud and really proud ( nothing wrong with that ) brommy owners here, will somewhat distort reality ) Just look at all the companies who make attachments

its easy to claim stuff .... not so easy to actually do it ... again kickstarter stuff

thor
ThorUSA is offline  
Old 11-17-15, 09:03 AM
  #45  
Azreal911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 922

Bikes: Wheeler Mtn bike, Strida 5.0, Tern Link Uno, FSIR Spin 2.0, Dahon Mu P8

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I'd have to fully agree with this, and from there you can mount the klikfix system on it which gives you a alot of bags out there as well as ortleib, putting a brompton mount on there would be a mistake limiting it to ONLY the few expensive brompton bags on the market vs the bigger 3rd party market mounts that mostly use the R&K mounts. funny thing also is that my tiny fsir folding bike which has nothing to do with dahon also has the standard dahon lugs mount on the headtube.

Last edited by Azreal911; 11-17-15 at 09:08 AM.
Azreal911 is offline  
Old 11-17-15, 03:59 PM
  #46  
bhkyte
Senior Member
 
bhkyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: York UK
Posts: 3,027

Bikes: 2X dualdrive Mezzo folder,plus others

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
If people want they can attach the Brompton block using one way pull ties........
You can also attach a Mezzo bag compatable seatpost rack system as an after market add on.
Options are out there. I do like the Brompton front bag. I am surprised to hear people using rucksacks instead. I dont like it for faster riding as its a sail.
bhkyte is offline  
Old 11-17-15, 08:34 PM
  #47  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 26,053
Mentioned: 209 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14456 Post(s)
Liked 2,432 Times in 1,810 Posts
A most interesting bike. A little expensive but not unexpected.

I had thought about a bottom bracket fold pivot. BF and Brompton fold behind the BB, resulting in a shorter fold. Folding at the BB gives a longer fold, but it is easier to deal with chain/belt tension. Anyway, it is a nice design.

I would like to see a bit more of a road version. Drop bars, perhaps different gearing and wheel choices, but maybe in a future release.

As far as the website, I find it extremely annoying to open a website and have it start making racket. And, the music on your page is horrible. You can add a video if you wish, but make it click to play. I clicked on an icon with several bars, and got somewhere that gobbled up all my memory and CPU time, and crashed my computer forcing a reboot.
CliffordK is online now  
Old 11-18-15, 04:15 AM
  #48  
Winfried
Senior Member
 
Winfried's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 2,170
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 414 Post(s)
Liked 75 Times in 65 Posts
Originally Posted by Azreal911 View Post
I'd have to fully agree with this, and from there you can mount the klikfix system on it which gives you a alot of bags out there as well as ortleib, putting a brompton mount on there would be a mistake limiting it to ONLY the few expensive brompton bags on the market vs the bigger 3rd party market mounts that mostly use the R&K mounts.
You're being mistaken.

Between the lug on the headtube and the actual bag comes the luggage block, which can have any shape. All the manufacturer has to do, is to provide two different models: One for Brompton bags, and the other for Klickfix bags.

Besides, because of the cables standing out on the front, the luggage truss on the Dahon/Tern* has to stick much further, limiting the weight that the bag can take: 7kg on the Dahon/Tern, 10kg on a Brompton.

I'm just saying that it's an obvious marketing plus if people can buy bags for both the Brompton and the Klickfix adapter.

Originally Posted by bhkyte View Post
If people want they can attach the Brompton block using one way pull ties........
That would be so beautiful on a $2K carbon bike :-)

Originally Posted by bhkyte View Post
I am surprised to hear people using rucksacks instead.
+1. I've never seen any Dahon/Tern rider over here using the luggage truss. People seem unaware that they can hang a bag on the front of the bike and not carry stuff in a backpack.

* besides looking very unsightly:
Winfried is offline  
Old 11-18-15, 06:39 AM
  #49  
BassNotBass
master of bottom licks
 
BassNotBass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lou-evil, Canned-Yucky USA
Posts: 2,211
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
As I stated in the comments section of a YT video it looks like a nice bike however I think it falls short because too much effort was put into one aspect that IMHO isn't a major concern when it comes to folding bikes. Yes the prototypes are light however it appears that the design does not facilitate a way to roll the bike in a folded position so you have to carry the bike. This may be OK with a simple bare single speed bike but once you add multi-speed options, which apparently are in the works, lights, fenders, maybe racks if the rider is so inclined, then you are left with a bike that no longer is a 14 lbs featherweight yet you still have to carry it around when folded. We used to carry around luggage and briefcases yet we've gotten to the point where product designers have made things easier and we can now wheel them around. Why would we want to do the reverse with our folding bikes? Then there's the issue with the hummingbird's folded size... not very compact. Sometimes size makes something more unwieldy than weight. Give me a box of rocks over a canoe paddle when traveling on the subway any day. From what I've seen the projected cost of just a single speed Hummingbird will be in the range of a decked out Brompton... since both are marketed as multi-modal urban commuters I think that the weight of Pros vs Cons is in Brompton's favor.

In all fairness the Hummingbird is a beautiful bike with gorgeous lines and I like the concept of the swingarm pivot being right at the BB to maintain chain line length. If I had disposable income to spend on functional art I would love to add a Hummingbird to my collection... it could make a great foldable track bike. However from a practical urban commuter standpoint it just doesn't quite cut it for me.

Last edited by BassNotBass; 11-18-15 at 07:25 AM.
BassNotBass is offline  
Old 11-18-15, 11:29 AM
  #50  
Azreal911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 922

Bikes: Wheeler Mtn bike, Strida 5.0, Tern Link Uno, FSIR Spin 2.0, Dahon Mu P8

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
You're being mistaken.

Between the lug on the headtube and the actual bag comes the luggage block, which can have any shape. All the manufacturer has to do, is to provide two different models: One for Brompton bags, and the other for Klickfix bags.

Besides, because of the cables standing out on the front, the luggage truss on the Dahon/Tern* has to stick much further, limiting the weight that the bag can take: 7kg on the Dahon/Tern, 10kg on a Brompton.

I'm just saying that it's an obvious marketing plus if people can buy bags for both the Brompton and the Klickfix adapter.



That would be so beautiful on a $2K carbon bike :-)



+1. I've never seen any Dahon/Tern rider over here using the luggage truss. People seem unaware that they can hang a bag on the front of the bike and not carry stuff in a backpack.

* besides looking very unsightly:
You have never seen them use the truss in use but they are using them around other parts of the world though. just a simple google search and I see people showing them off with their bags. staring at it close up would probably be unsightly to some but it works great in actual use and there are smaller mounts that R&K created also.

also R&K klickfix system already uses the dahon spacing as their standard:
klickfix frame bracket - Google Search

but i think i understand what you are trying to say now, nothing to do with the mount points but make a luggage block that would work with brompton bags right? (why won't bold turn off!?)

not sure manufacturers are going to waste time/money making a brompton mount unless they have alot of brompton owners that suddenly want the hummingbird also, but the thread here from brompton owners i'm reading it doesn't seem to be the case. Unless there is going to be a large number of purchasers that want this I don't think they are going to manufacture this. Not having it would reduce the cost of stocking as well as designing and prototyping, may look simple but it's expensive making plastic molds for parts and factories usually want large numbers (1000's) else they won't even talk to you. With the dahon standard mount they don't have to create/stock or prototype anything for it because everyone else is selling it 3rd party for them and with fully tested mounts already. A good alternative to this would just 3d print a mount yourself, one would need to measure it out and have some good cad skills though, someone did that on the forums once.

I think looking at the bike people would have to stop comparing it to a brompton. Because it doesn't have the functionality of a brompton and does not come close to the fold of a brompton, adding a fold hinge on there would heavily increase the weight on that bike and ruin their selling point and the fold is probably even bigger than a 20" dahon. I'm looking at it as more of a throw in the back of a car trunk type of bike which is super light and would be a really fun ride type of bike instead of a daily rush hour get in the subway type bike. The bike looks amazing and I think they already have a market for it because the design is just different enough from the usual out there.
Azreal911 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.