regfman

I have a Dahon S7 that I use for commuting.

I'd like to get a second folding bike and pass the S7 to my wife. I'm thinking about another Dahon with an internal hub 3 speed since my commute is pretty flat. Dahon I think uses a Sturmey Archer IGH. I've heard disconnecting the wheel from the frame when repairing a flat is a bit more of hassle than a derailleur. How much more?

Reg

dorkypants

To start, you have nuts to loosen with 2(!) wrenches instead of a quick release skewer you can undo in a second or two (and conversely, you'll need the wrenches when you've fixed the flat and put the wheel back on). Often there are pesky washers between the nut and the dropouts that you have to position properly before tightening the nuts.

You'll also have to undo the connector between the shift cable and the actuator going into the hub. Some of them have a lockring to help reconnect at the proper tension on the actuator. Others don't: it could be a bother to reconnect the cable with correct tension. I don't know if it's still true, but old Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hubs had this interesting feature where just a little past middle gear there's a "neutral" setting where the hub and the cranks are not engaged to each other. If you get the cable tension wrong, it's easy to end up in neutral and find yourself spinning the cranks rapidly with no power going to the rear wheel when you try to shift to middle gear!

regfman

I don't mind the disadvantage of needing a couple wrenches to get the wheel off. I am using the bike mostly for commutes that are short and I don't carry tools. If I get a flat tire I'll figure out a way to not deal with it on the road and get it back home to repair where I do have the tools.

And hopefully I'd note the position of the pesky washer as they came off to be able to at least get them back in place. What I am concerned about is the tweaky adjustment of the cable tension. Although when compared to the adjustments of a derailleur maybe that isn't much.

But given what you've mentioned about the Sturmey-Archer should I be looking for a different IGH? As mentioned I like my Dahon S7 and was planning on buying a Dahon with IGH, but I am open to trying a different brand to get an easy to maintain IGH.

regfman

Answering my own question, there appears to be the Dahon Curve I3 20 with 3 Speed Shimano Nexus Revo, and the Vitesse i7 with 7 speed Nexus Revo Shifter. So the question is are the Shimano Nexus Revo shifters more convenient than the Sturmey-Archer?

In fact I can't remember why I asked about the Sturmey-Archer in the first place. Those two Dahon bikes I am mentioning seem like pretty nice bikes.

12boy

There are a few extra steps with an SA hub, at least the ones with an actuator chain.
1 undo the actuator chain which has a knurled shaft and nut. The nut is tightened against the shaft to keep it from loosening. If you leave the nut as is you can then tighten the shaft up to it when reinstalling. Then you unscrew the actuator chain, which gas a chain part with a spindle on one end and a solid shaft that screws into the axle. There is a nut which holds on the chain tensioner and two more that secure the wheel. These are all 15 mm. Don't know about Dahons, which may not have a chain tensioner, though Bromptons do. Reinstall the wheel and secure the nuts and reinflate the tire. Screw the actuator chain in all the way and back off 1/2 turn. If you leave it screwed in all the way it won't work properly. Then reinstall the shaft and snug it to the nut. Put it in high gear, which leaves the cable very slack, and then shift into 2nd. This increases the cable tension and when you you can just see the solid part of the actuator protruding from the axle, the tension is correct. The nut that hold the wheel or tensioner on has a hole bored through it that allows you to see how much shaft is coming out of the axle. It is nice to have that pointing up so you can easily check this as you ride. Do this a few times and you will be able to do the chain tension about as fast as it took to read this. Although you need a 15 mm wrench to remove the axle nuts the rest is done by hand, which is why the nut and shaft are knurled.

bhkyte

You dont need to remove the wheel to repair a flat.
I wouldnt remove the wheel to repair flats on an IHG bike on the fly. On a drailler with QR you may as well remove the wheel.

downtube

I've had several customers zip tie a new tube inside the axle when they buy the bike. That way they just swap tubes while on the road without tools.

Thanks,
Yan

regfman

Are 3 speed hubs less tweaky (easier to adjust the cable tension) than 7 speed hubs?

regfman

Also, this morning I see a used vitesse D7 with derailleur on craigslist for $600 less than I'd be paying for a new vitesse I7 after sales tax. Maybe I should forget the IGH thing. Hmmm.

bhkyte

Yes.
3 speeds are a case of putting it second gear and it maching 2nd at the hub. Then the shifter just needs a large enough deflection either way to find the other gears.

Multi speed IHG are pretty easy to set up if you follow the insructions. Easier than mechs.

Winfried

I'd be curious to see how it's done.

BTW, the SA BWR on the Brompton requires only one 15mm spanner to remove the wheel.

Might's well get a spanner with ten hex heads, so you also have a 10mm spanner if you need to undo the brake cable.

sdwphoto

Once you get used to it removeing SA hub is not that much of a deal.I ride a brompton 6sps and the wheel goes on and off easy.
After a couple of flats i bought tire slime and put it in the tubes. I've had a few punctures since I put it into the tubes and it works well.Since you don't have far to commute it should work well for you ,too.

Winfried

I got a pair of Marathon Plus from Schwalbe, and never had a puncture since.

Granted, they're heavier and more slippery in the rain, but I can live with that. Besides, folding bikes are normally meant for commuting, not long-distance touring.

CliffordK

My Bike Friday (Sachs 3x7 IGH) uses one of these quick disconnects.



Brompton Gear Cable Anchorage SRAM - QGCABANC-SA - £4.50
Gear cable anchorage SRAM, Part# QGCABANC-SR – NYCeWheels.com

I'm not sure if they can be adapted to Sturmey Archer chains. I suppose I could experiment a bit.

One just presses in the disconnect button and it slides apart. Remove wheel and service. Then, set the shifter to low tension (highest gear), and push it back together till it is tight without tension.

tcs

At various times on various models in different markets, Dahon has used Shimano Nexus, SRAM or Sturmey-Archer 3-spd IGHs.

You have to disconnect/reconnect the shift cable and reset/insure the cable position after some fashion on all three brands. If you can repair a flat, the cable thing is no big deal.

Uh, yeah, Sturmey started building some models of 3-spd hubs that didn't have a neutral between 2nd & 3rd gear in 1984, and hasn't built any with that quirk this millennium.

fietsbob

The NIG was a design change by the English engineers, when the TW company Sun Race Bought out the British one .

Now all they make is the 3 speed in the NIG design..

My British 94-AW3 Mk 2 Brompton with the steel trigger shifter was more difficult to push the lever into Low gear

Than is the New BSR in my Mk4 is with it's Plastic shifter.


so How long does it take you to remove a rear wheel of any bike ?
and how much longer if you have a solid axle and need to find the wrench to loosen the axle nuts.

mconlonx

The shifters won't be the issue, when considering ease of wheel removal, it is the interface with the shift cable and the rear hub.

I have no experience with the S/A rotary system, only the standard shifting mechanism in which the shift chain enters through the drive side nut. For those, removal of the rear wheel involves undoing the cable connector/tensioner, and unbolting the wheel. I've never had issues with the cable tension as long as the locknut on the chain end of the system isn't loosened too much.

The Shimano 3sp system has less opportunity for messing up cable tension/shifting tune, but requires an additional tool -- either a 10mm open wrench or a 5mm hex key to remove the shift box, after which the rear hub bolts may be loosened and wheel removed. Be careful not to drop or lose the shifter rod, which is not held into the hub by anything.

The Shimano 7sp system is different than these other ones, in that it has a rotary shifting mechanism inside the rear stays, up against the hub. The trickiest thing about removing the shifter cable is remembering the routing of the cable and stop on the cassette joint mechanism, but it can be done by hand, without tools. Again, if done properly, less chance of screwing up the cable tension than with the S/A hub, and one less tool needed compared to the Shimano 3sp hub.

In all cases, you'll need a 15mm wrench to remove the hub nuts; for hubs with coaster brakes, probably either a 10mm wrench and/or screwdriver and/or hex wrench; and when reinstalling any of these, make sure you get the rotational washer properly situated in the dropout.

tds101 

I had a Schwin 5 speed w/a Sturmey-Archer hub. When I had to remove the rear wheel for any reason, I'd just unscrew the small adjustment chain. I'd do what I had to, the put her back w/minimal adjustments necessary. Really simple actually,...and Lee's annoying (or dirty) than standard derailleurs. Quick too!