Post of the year! :roflmao2:

Maybe he's counting on people becoming too old to ride and they'll forget they ordered a Helix.

That's actually more than jest. Some backers' personal situation changed drastically that the bike wasn't needed any more. Who knows perhaps some became gravely ill or died. A fair few have moved to different addresses. In 1000 people you get all sorts of issues over 2 years. And for sure everybody got older, perhaps some to the point where the bike is totally redundant.

Actually, backers didn't order a bike, only people with a pre-order did it.

Like for all Kickstarter projects, Backers gave money to help to create the Helix, they will, maybe, eventually, receive a bike as reward for this help.

Look what happened with the Knog Oil bell project where the bell was first available in shops and backers eventually received a bell only after the actual bell commercialization.

Thanks for the timeline. I sat there for quite some time, shaking my head at Peter's progress and lack of updating on time throughout the year. I'm sure there's a few pre-order people on this forum who ordered in late January. Well, our 1 year anniversary is coming up. I think it'll be a good time for me personally to jump ship.

You were right. It wasn't an update before the update. We'll have to wait...

As a non-backer, this is like a train wreck you just can't glance away from! I'm going to be sad when the bike finally gets delivered (assuming it does) because this is priceless drama.

True to a point .... but in all reality I will be happy for all the folks who put money down and finally get their bike they have paid for so long ago. I feel bad for them as this pipedream is simply not possible to produce with the components promised, and sell and have some kind of aftermarket service, freight, custom clearing, etc etc etc ...


thor

Back in May I posted a link to this thread on Facebook with the following comment:

This is a very entertaining story, on par with "Harry Potter" and "The Lord of the Rings." It is about selling and (possibly) delivering a wonderful new bicycle, loaded with comedy and suspense. Right now we are at the cliff hanger...

I foolishly thought the cliff hanger was 7 months ago.

Of course...I'm currently a backer on 3 items that are way past delivery dates, so I can totally sympathize. It is just that this product has created a much more interesting and informative thread, I've learned a lot about bike manufacturing. And - it has been entertaining ;-)

I'll miss being told how boring I am. I got used to it!

I funded this project. However I would like to get out.

Last year I communicated with Peter, and offered help after I quit my teaching gig in Hawai'i. I understand he thought I was looking for a job...I wasn't.

At this point I don't think he should have taken money in this manner. I was hoping to help fund a new concept. I have no interest in continuing on this path.

Thanks
Yan

Tesla Model 3 and Helix sound quite similar in many respects.
* plays cards close to chest
* stuck in production hell
* hyped for 2 years
* buyers haven't seen the vehicle yet
* production line not working
* burning cash

Others i have missed?

Meant to be humorous not negative...

Differences between Tesla & Helix....
- Helix doesn't get massive US Gov subsidies.
- Unlike Elon Musk, Peter doesn't become Homer Simpson's friend.
- Chinese hackers can't take over the Helix's brakes & other features.
- Peter doesn't plan a tractor trailer version of the Helix.
- Helix doesn't have a space program, & prattle on about Mars.

Elon has a Tesla car, Peter doesn't have a Helix bike.

Am I doing this right?

Not quite ... Elon ALREADY had production electric cars on the road, Peter had absolutely NO production bike of any sort on the road at the launch of their own hype trains.

Actually there is ONE pre-production Helix - Peter's. So that's a match.

Is it two weeks yet?

"Prototype" ( its not even pre-production as no actual production processes were used in its creation) and serial production vehicless are world's apart in scope and delivery.

Not comparable at all.

I think that it is not a prototype as a prototype has the characteristics of the final product.

I would call the bike shown in the Kickstarter campaign video a concept demonstration, not even a proof of concept because the bike needed a complete redesign.

The proof od concept step (that demonstrate that the concept works and prototype step (product very close to the final product but for instance hand built) were skipped.

Peter is in fact trying to make in one step both a proof of concept bike and a pre-production bike (= what validates the manufacturing process).

Now the chance for Peter to be first time right in any aspects, i.e. that there will be no need for any modification/improvement nor for the design of the bike, nor for the manufacturing process, so that this bike will really be a pre-production bike seems to me very low

In terms of strict mass production semantics , you are absolutely correct !

I wrote this also to show clearly in what stage of the development process the project is and what steps have been skipped.

Skipping steps is dangerous because as a rule of thumb, the later a problem is discovered in the development process, the heavier the consequences in term of delay and cost.

Are you privy to the backers portal? From what you say I conclude not.

There is a final version bike built, just not by the robot welder. Except for that, it is exactly equal to the production bikes.

The proof of concept is what was shown in the KS video and pic. Go to the Helix.ca site and see for yourself that the pics there of the redesigned, refined version show subtle differences to the KS version.

The last 6 months Helix have struggled to get the welder going and the last news I had was that the welder is finally on line.

That's all based on what I know, not speculation. So if you have that backers access as well I cannot understand how you can justify your statement.

I do not agree with you what was shown on KS is not a proof of concept because it needed to be heavily modified, it was just a concept demo.

For the next one (and also the KS one), showing pictures is not a proof of concept, the proof of concept requires testing what as far as I know didn't happen yet ?

BTW, the bike to come is called "test bike" which seems also confirm that testing wasn't done yet unless "test bike" means testing the manufacturing process ?

The KS bike was more than a concept. It was the culmination of some years of design. It is a fully functional bike and was demonstrated by Peter riding it around. I think it may have not had a rear brake installed but that's it. It was in all respects fully functional and the KS premise was it would be built as-is. But when the KS campaign was successful beyond his wildest dreams, that made other things possible as well as necessary, the most important one being that a serious production facility was needed to fulfill the large volume of orders. He teamed up with a manufacturer in the car industry. The proof of concept was scrutinized by this team for manufacturability. Changes were made with that in mind; that also gave Peter opportunity to scrutinize the hinges and latches. The latches especially were redesigned from scratch; although the original designs worked well enough, Peter cam up with what he thinks are improved designs. The hinges remained substantially the same, as did the rest of the bike. Details were refined such as having replaceable dropouts.

The team-up with the manufacturer did not last as there were differences in conviction as to what is the best way to manufacture - the company wanted castings and glue to be used, but while pursuing this angle, it became clear that the casting process was introducing unwanted constraints and dependencies. That was abandoned and the collaboration dissolved.

Peter went back to welding but found that tube cutting, CNC part manufacturing and welding by subcontractors was far more expensive than he thought it should cost. He then embarked on the long and painful process of procuring everything for a factory from scratch. You might appreciate that this is a HUGE undertaking and he thoroughly underestimated that project.

That seems to be all behind him now. The test bike isn't what you seem to think it is; it isn't a proof of concept, rather it is a bike built using normal production processes, submitted to a 3rd party testing company for testing against various ISO standards for compliance. This is a legally required step by some countries at least as I understand it; most countries only have something like a recommendation or require a self-certification.

A final version of the bike has existed for a long time now, I think perhaps a year. That was obviously welded by a subcontractor so is not suitable for testing. But it is essentially identical to the production bike.

The past 18 months or so has been spent on setting up the factory and if not already finished, is d*mned close.

So far from skipping steps, the opposite is true. The proof of concept which is a fully functional bike except a rear brake was refined, and new patents taken out. Manufacturing processes were explored. The final version which is what I would thoroughly stamp as a pre-production sample, exists. The last 18 months was spent with the single goal in mind of setting up the factory to produce that very same sample with in-house processes to control cost but importantly quality as well.

The only downside of all this history is the huge amount of time it is taking to do all these due diligence steps and Peter's drastic underestimate of doing it.