Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Folding Bikes
Reload this Page >

Helix Update?

Notices
Folding Bikes Discuss the unique features and issues of folding bikes. Also a great place to learn what folding bike will work best for your needs.

Helix Update?

Old 12-23-17, 10:44 PM
  #751  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
It's awesome that they finally finished the test bike, and it looks incredible. Titanium seat post and shot-peened finish confirmed!

I'm not sure now exactly what the differences are between the retail/pre-order bikes and the backer ones, so I sent an email off in the hope that maybe Peter could clarify all the differences. I know backers got a lower price and some component upgrades, but I'm not 100% if things like the shot-peened finish and Ti seat-post are for every bike, although I would assume so.

I wonder if manufacturing will actually begin in February. I am somewhat doubtful I'll have a bike by Spring, but you never know. Let's hope that backer #1 does at least.
MrFlamey is offline  
Old 12-24-17, 05:11 AM
  #752  
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Hi Mr. Flamey, this is an educated guess from snipets of official and unofficial information:

The difference between backer and retail: Ti-Seatpost vs. standard (Al or steel) seatpost.

Shot-peening finish: May be a one-off for backers but since this process changes, (to a small extent), the stresses distribution in the frame, I believe this could be generalized to all back.

Per helix team: pre-orders were "the last time the bike would be offered at this price", so unless their business strategy changes, I expect retail buyers (such as myself) may have to shell out a heftier amount of money. And it would make sense.

From my experience in manufacturing (machine tools): Once the first production demonstrator is down, it is almost immediately (2 weeks) possible to produce more of those, at a slower rate. To increase the rate, 2 months is a solid estimate (February), 3-4 months if the production team really screws the pooch. (I've seen it happen first hand, it's extremely frustrating when everyone is ready and the ball is dropped that way, however, it usually is amenable to someone in the organization being lazy/soft/incompetent, so it's a human factor at this point most of the time).

Anyway, I'm trying to say end of Feb. is reasonable for first deliverable bike, from the technical point of view.

However, they need to have the bike certified now...how long does that take? (To be added to the Feb. estimate).
RatonLaveur is offline  
Old 12-24-17, 06:36 AM
  #753  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,500
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 772 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 232 Times in 197 Posts
Originally Posted by RatonLaveur
Hi Mr. Flamey, this is an educated guess from snipets of official and unofficial information:

The difference between backer and retail: Ti-Seatpost vs. standard (Al or steel) seatpost.

Shot-peening finish: May be a one-off for backers but since this process changes, (to a small extent), the stresses distribution in the frame, I believe this could be generalized to all back.

Per helix team: pre-orders were "the last time the bike would be offered at this price", so unless their business strategy changes, I expect retail buyers (such as myself) may have to shell out a heftier amount of money. And it would make sense.

From my experience in manufacturing (machine tools): Once the first production demonstrator is down, it is almost immediately (2 weeks) possible to produce more of those, at a slower rate. To increase the rate, 2 months is a solid estimate (February), 3-4 months if the production team really screws the pooch. (I've seen it happen first hand, it's extremely frustrating when everyone is ready and the ball is dropped that way, however, it usually is amenable to someone in the organization being lazy/soft/incompetent, so it's a human factor at this point most of the time).

Anyway, I'm trying to say end of Feb. is reasonable for first deliverable bike, from the technical point of view.

However, they need to have the bike certified now...how long does that take? (To be added to the Feb. estimate).
All this planning assume that the test bike is right, i.e. no problems are detected on this test bike that need to be fixed to have the bike certified !
Jipe is offline  
Old 12-24-17, 09:39 AM
  #754  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by MrFlamey
I'm not 100% if things like the shot-peened finish and Ti seat-post are for every bike, although I would assume so.
Actually, I expect they throw in the Ti post for us (pre-orders) too. I'm just about ready to pull out of this, and give my soul and a few limbs to Brompton.

Last edited by DaKineDatFolds; 12-24-17 at 05:05 PM.
DaKineDatFolds is offline  
Old 12-24-17, 09:59 AM
  #755  
Señor Mambo
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 1,406

Bikes: TST roadie, Cannondale CAAD 3, Surly Karate Stokemonkey Leap, Tern Cargo Node, Helix Alfine; 36er and 29er Triton Unicycles; a couple Bike Fridays; one Brompton; RadPower Radburro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by DaKineDatFolds
.... I'm just about ready to pull out of this, and give my soul and a few limbs to Brompton.
Just make sure you get one with a working bottom bracket!

(Oh, you said a few limbs. I guess you already know.)
spambait11 is offline  
Old 12-24-17, 10:16 AM
  #756  
Junior Member
 
Jonesandrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked 11 Times in 7 Posts
Testing

Originally Posted by RatonLaveur

However, they need to have the bike certified now...how long does that take? (To be added to the Feb. estimate).
Peter has said it should take 2-3 weeks. This estimate has slightly better credibility than his previous schedule predictions since it has to be from the test lab, but as Jipe has already pointed out, there's potential for delay if (heaven forbid) it fails to meet one of the test criteria for any reason. Let's hope there aren't any nasty little stress risers lurking under the surface of those "perfect" welds.

Last edited by Jonesandrew; 12-25-17 at 03:00 AM. Reason: error correction
Jonesandrew is offline  
Old 12-24-17, 10:57 AM
  #757  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by spambait11
Just make sure you get one with a working bottom bracket!

(Oh, you said a few limbs. I guess you already know.)
Right, I saw the 12/21 post. Is yours a 2014-2017 model?
DaKineDatFolds is offline  
Old 12-24-17, 12:42 PM
  #758  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,687

Bikes: Trek 730 (quad), 720 & 830, Bike Friday NWT, Brompton M36R & M6R, Dahon HAT060 & HT060, ...

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 831 Post(s)
Liked 332 Times in 247 Posts
Originally Posted by Jipe
All this planning assume that the test bike is right, i.e. no problems are detected on this test bike that need to be fixed to have the bike certified !
Indeed, I am astounded by all the hurray after the single bike got produced. There are so many things that need to line up to make a good bike . On the other hand the audience has an abnormally large component of those who jumped in the first place, so certainly not typical. Even though there are so many bikes in the world that are long in production, but are duds for one reason or another, good luck there!
2_i is offline  
Old 12-24-17, 04:10 PM
  #759  
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
You are, my dear sir, no doubt right.

This being said, one bicycle produced entirely with the envisioned industrial process is a production prototype. Helix has now therefore officially gone from "functional proof of concept" to "designed for manufacturing concept" to "fully produced demonstrator". Which is perfectly in-line with how an industrialization process should go.

Hence there IS reason to rejoice, for they are one serious step closer to victory, but there is no reason to cry victory just yet.

I wish every one of you, and the Helix team, a Merry Christmas!
RatonLaveur is offline  
Old 12-25-17, 05:06 AM
  #760  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,500
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 772 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 232 Times in 197 Posts
But the quality of the production must then be demonstrated.

The next step is to have customer qualified samples.

To reach this step, the demonstrator must successfully pass all the test including reliability test.
Jipe is offline  
Old 12-25-17, 10:51 PM
  #761  
Señor Mambo
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 1,406

Bikes: TST roadie, Cannondale CAAD 3, Surly Karate Stokemonkey Leap, Tern Cargo Node, Helix Alfine; 36er and 29er Triton Unicycles; a couple Bike Fridays; one Brompton; RadPower Radburro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by DaKineDatFolds
Right, I saw the 12/21 post. Is yours a 2014-2017 model?
My Brompton? No. Circa 2004.

(Bought it before they came with latches to keep the rear triangle from swinging freely.)
spambait11 is offline  
Old 12-27-17, 04:40 AM
  #762  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by RichardLee
Beautiful.
Hi!

Where are I can see photo of test bike from Helix?
SunDuck is offline  
Old 12-27-17, 05:28 AM
  #763  
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
SunDuck,

Lest I am mistaken, the website pictures are of the test bike from now on.

If you meant a real world (not marketing) picture, I suppose we'll have to wait until actual backers, pre-orders are allowed to share the more recent content with the world. Or Helix does.

Have a pleasant day every one.
RatonLaveur is offline  
Old 12-27-17, 05:44 AM
  #764  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
GTizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 187

Bikes: Miyata 621 Touring, Dahon Smooth Hound (Demountable)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I feel like Raton Laveur is Peter Boutakis wearing a moustache

Joking aside, in the progression from "functional proof of concept" --> "fully produced demonstrator," has the bike been validated from a testing perspective? I know that ISO, and a number of other international organizations, require safety and durability testing before a bike can be sold in most European and American markets.

Has this 'fully produced demonstrator' been through these tests? If not, it could require 1) a fundamental redesign and 2) a fundamental revision of manufacturing.

Any insight? With the lefty fork and bolt-action locking mechanism, I've got my doubts about durability.
GTizzy is offline  
Old 12-27-17, 11:05 AM
  #765  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 4 Posts
Bike is scheduled in for 2-3 weeks testing in the new year.

There is always the risk of failure in testing. Don't think it likely given the genesis of the bike though.
Gibsonsean is offline  
Old 12-27-17, 12:02 PM
  #766  
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,556

Bikes: Mike Melton custom, 1982 Stumpjumper, Alex Moulton AM, 2010 Dawes Briercliffe, 2017 Dahon Curl i8, 2021 Motobecane Turino 1x12

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1640 Post(s)
Liked 1,764 Times in 1,027 Posts
Originally Posted by RatonLaveur
Lest I am mistaken, the website pictures are of the test bike from now on.
If those website pictures are images of an actual, physical bicycle - and I'm certainly not saying they're not - then Helix went to some effort to make them appear like computer renderings.

But perhaps we're mere moments away from seeing pictures of a final configuration Helix being ridden around Toronto.
tcs is offline  
Old 12-27-17, 01:05 PM
  #767  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 4 Posts
Actually, I was incorrect. I can see significant differences between the test bike pictured on the portal and the images on the website. I guess think the images on the website are still of the final prototype.
Gibsonsean is offline  
Old 12-27-17, 02:04 PM
  #768  
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
@Gibsonsean: thanks for checking, will be happy to see pictures when they escape in the world.

@tcs: no they are definitely pictures of a real bicycle taken by a professional, under professional lighting. Potentially photoshopped. What gives it away is the tires, you can see slight variations in color and the molding markings. I know CGI has come a long way but I am convinced it's real.
RatonLaveur is offline  
Old 12-29-17, 06:42 AM
  #769  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hello everyone - another long time lurker of this thread coming out....

Quick question: does the test bike have internal cable routing? To me that's aesthetically the biggest shortcoming of this otherwise beautiful bike, and I'm surprised nobody else has brought this up. IMO Ti-seatpost is nice, but ultimately a side show.

Happy new year to everyone & may the first helix bikes hit the road soon!
helixhelix is offline  
Old 12-29-17, 07:05 AM
  #770  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by tcs
...Helix went to some effort to make them appear like computer renderings.
Originally Posted by RatonLaveur
...they are definitely pictures of a real bicycle taken by a professional, under professional lighting. Potentially photoshopped. What gives it away is the tires, you can see slight variations in color and the molding markings. I know CGI has come a long way but I am convinced it's real.
Originally Posted by helixhelix
...does the test bike have internal cable routing? To me that's aesthetically the biggest shortcoming of this otherwise beautiful bike, and I'm surprised nobody else has brought this up.
Oh! Whoa! You guys are right. Why the need for the pro photos on a test bike? And will the test bike will be able to shift gears?

Originally Posted by spambait11
My Brompton? No. Circa 2004.
Well I'm betting that your Brompton works, and the Helix test bike doesn't!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
1.jpg (75.9 KB, 292 views)
File Type: jpg
2.jpg (99.9 KB, 284 views)
File Type: jpg
3.jpg (42.2 KB, 279 views)
File Type: jpg
4.jpg (31.9 KB, 276 views)
File Type: jpg
5.jpg (72.6 KB, 278 views)
File Type: jpg
6.jpg (101.0 KB, 285 views)
File Type: jpg
7.jpg (96.5 KB, 272 views)
File Type: jpg
8.jpg (130.4 KB, 282 views)
File Type: jpg
9.jpg (63.2 KB, 283 views)

Last edited by DaKineDatFolds; 12-29-17 at 07:25 AM.
DaKineDatFolds is offline  
Old 12-29-17, 07:33 AM
  #771  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thx for the pics DaKineDatFolds! But... which one is the final design? My guess would be picture 3 (Ti-Seatpost, round rear triangle) which would mean no internal cable routing... I love the clean looks of pics 1 & 5, but even there the front cable routing does not seem (aesthetically) ideal. Routing back break & shifter cable in the back triangle would be the cherry on the cake, but presumably tricky because of the fold.
helixhelix is offline  
Old 12-29-17, 07:51 AM
  #772  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by helixhelix
Thx for the pics DaKineDatFolds! But... which one is the final design? My guess would be picture 3 (Ti-Seatpost, round rear triangle) which would mean no internal cable routing... I love the clean looks of pics 1 & 5, but even there the front cable routing does not seem (aesthetically) ideal. Routing back break & shifter cable in the back triangle would be the cherry on the cake, but presumably tricky because of the fold.
You're right about the final design. Internal cable routing for shifting AND folding? How about... where's the shifter? Not knowing what's internal and external on my own non-folding bike, I had to check: Front and rear shifting is internal; front and rear brakes are external.

Last edited by DaKineDatFolds; 12-29-17 at 07:54 AM.
DaKineDatFolds is offline  
Old 12-29-17, 08:13 AM
  #773  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Indeed - where is the shifter? Do you have other pics from different angles for the final design to share? Ideally with a shifter installed...
helixhelix is offline  
Old 12-29-17, 08:23 AM
  #774  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by helixhelix
Indeed - where is the shifter? Do you have other pics from different angles for the final design to share? Ideally with a shifter installed...
Okay, let me start by saying that I would've rather much preferred to keep things internal but after reading about the possible suspicions on the test bike, I feel that this needed to come out for comparison.

That's the only photo that I'm aware of for the test bike update, helixhelix. I wonder if anyone here with Photoshop skillz can help out.

Last edited by DaKineDatFolds; 12-29-17 at 08:34 AM.
DaKineDatFolds is offline  
Old 12-29-17, 12:20 PM
  #775  
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Olney Illinois USA
Posts: 1,021

Bikes: to many

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
interesting way to attach the saddle ....
ThorUSA is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.