Tern is based in Taiwan. The first recall was China based factory. Subsequent recall was Taiwan based. So if you want to sue Tern proper, you'd have to go to Taiwan.

Bike breaks in two out of the blue .... accident? :foo: Negligent rider? :thumb:

Ah...Taiwan is it, the country that gave them three awards of excellence, say no more.

Dishonest pratice by Tern would have made it more difficult to pursue a claim?
Isolation by edited forums keeping claimants isolated.
Poor information.
Denial of issue.
Blame on rider by Tern.
Under reporting of injuries.
Tern with holding the evidence of broken frames from owners in some cases so it can't be anyalised independently once submitted for refund/exchange.
There has been some cover up going on.
Much harder to know what's going on.

There is a lot of brand loyalty in the UK and this is probably true in many or most countries. As soon as a brand gets a good reputation for quality or has been successfully marketed a lot of rational thinking goes out the window. For example 2 bikes, lets say a downtube fitted with good quality components and a similar priced Dahon or Tern fitted with low end components people will recommend the Dahon or Tern despite the implications of poor reliability, frequent maintenance and low strength indicated by the components they have fitted. I've seen forums where the person has followed the recommendation only for a follow up posting from the same person saying 'my gears don't work very well' or 'there's a noise coming from my bottom bracket' etc.

Another example a professional cycle repairer replied to a listing in a bargain forum for an entry level bike warning of the quality of the bike based on its price and entry level components suggesting buying secondhand was a better choice but on asking for his recommendation on ebay/gumtree current listings of models he recommended a bike from a good brand actually fitted with worse components which was used with worn components and tyres and of course had no warranty at all which was only marginally cheaper than the new bike. A huge can of worms.

A lot of people look at the brand before the actual bike plus there is a lot of defence of people's purchasing. Someone who paid £1500 for a bike doesn't want to hear or accept that the frame is junk and dangerous and could have got a better stronger bike for maybe a half or even a third of the price they paid.

It's a bit like headphones you get companies like Grado, Sennheiser and a few others making great sounding headphones but you also get more expensive headphones that sound poor but are fashionable and stylish like Beats. One is a quality choice the other is more a lifestyle fashion choice. Actually owning and wearing Beats for some people has a feel good factor and gives them an identity of the type of person they want to be, sometimes that is more important than better sound quality. However if you can actually get the same person to wear Grado headphones they immediately admit they sound far superior and make the music far more enjoyable and suddenly realise how poor the Beats are.

One last comment relating to this is many years ago I worked in a hifi shop and sold Bose equipment. It's price was high but its sound quality mid to low ranking at the time but they were stylish and looked premium. One product in question was exceptionally poor inside with many corrective wires on the circuit boards. It looked absolute junk internally and the only reason I saw this was because the service engineer wanted to point out how bad it was and how difficult it made the repair. Perceived quality and actual quality are not the same. Just because a bike sells at a high price doesn't guarantee the manufacturing quality is any better than a bike that sells for a fraction of the price. It's about what the market will bear not what it cost to make. However for people who are brand rather than product focused its near impossible for them to accept that.

They claimed to be a Hong Kong company in the patent infringement lawsuit they filed against me.

Thanks
Yan

Wow. That is interesting. In the US, the recall cites the distributor. Maybe Tern does not have a presence in the US.

That's one good thing about living in the UK, strong consumer laws. Over here if you have a problem with something it's down to the seller to sort it out not the manufacturer, they were the people that sold you the item after all. All stores and stockists are well insured against claims so it's more of a nuisance than anything else.


Interesting post from Bonzo, is it as I said before a case of style over substance.

Stile products the USA distributor was a party in the case against me.

In the complaint they alleged I run a bunch of shell businesses.... who thinks of that stuff?

Thanks
Yan

Shell businesses ? they must have been all at sea on that one :)

Ha ha

Yan

I bought a phone from ebay business recently.
Illegally modified IEMI number,
flashed with illegal software to unlock it.
Unusable as a phone and illegal to sell on.
I got the money back only after paypal claim.
Company still selling phones.
No apologises,
Could not leave negative feedback due to length of time after purchase.
Police asked me to let ebay deal with it.
All to often legally dubious companies stay in business.

Ok I think I got it straight now, let me know if I am missing something. Tern is a Taiwanese Company, Stile is a USA company distributing the bikes, Mobility Holdings is a Hong Kong Corporation that holds the IP for Tern.

Talk about shells.....

Thanks,
Yan

Probably the same as in many companies: Due to the complex legislation regarding taxes, patents and cooperations throughout different countries worldwide as a company you need lawyers to hinder you from making mistakes. You end up with even more complexity, just this time within your own company. And therefor you need more lawyers to manage it, while other lawyers on the governmental side add more rules to the legislation to stop you from doing whatever hole you lawyers found in the legislation. Which means you need even more lawyers and at some point they just take over, making whatever the purpose of your company was a side-effect, only necessary to feed the lawyers' stream of income. Same goes for the governmental side: More complexity, more lawyers. Economy and politics in our days are a perfect self-feeding system for lawyers...

Is this what customers subsidize when they buy a Tern?

Thanks
Yan

We'll all tell you the same thing: read the thread, check the links, drink lots of coffee.

Summary.
Tern tried to cover up amount of broken frames, injuries, blamed customers. Factories.
Closed forums. Edited forums.

Not conjecture.

They also threatened to sue me ( and possibly others ) for defamation for talking about it on their forums. Later they did sue me on a patent claim...they lost.

Thanks,
Yan

What I think is worrying a couple of years on is firstly, we still don't know what caused the welds to break. ok rubbish welding but why was it bad. Wrong welding heat, incorrect rods used, frame pre heating not carried out properly or maybe not at all who knows.
Secondly although many bikes were recalled there must still be a great deal more on the road, not every cyclist is an enthusiast who reads bike forums and keeps up with all the latest news & gossip. There could be many more accidents just waiting to happen.

That's been the case since early 2014. This situation has made me sick to my stomach for years.

Thanks
Yan

Yep. Don't buy a Tern, don't sell a Tern, don't ride a Tern.

I hope you consider the maker some sort of authority:
https://www.ternbicycles.com/2014-li...ry-recall-faqs
What bikes are included?

The recall covers specific production batches of first generation Link OCL frames. The recalled models include certain Link Uno, Link D8, Link D7i, Link P7i, Link P9, Link P24h and Link D24 bikes. The bikes were made in 2011 and early 2012 and mostly shipped in those same years.

How can I tell if my bike is included?

If you have one of the above models, check your Frame Number – the unique ten-digit alphanumeric number stamped underneath the bottom bracket. If your Frame Number begins with “AI”, your bike MAY be part of the recall.

If you have one of the above models and your Serial Number begins with AI, you should stop riding your bike until you have checked if your bike is part of the recall.

To find out if your bike is part of the recall, please take your bike to your Tern dealer or visit our bike submission info page where you can submit information about your bike and find out if it is included.

Do I really need to stop riding my bike?

Yes. If your bike is part of the recall, you need to stop riding until the problem is fixed.

Is there a way to inspect my bike to see if there are problems?

No. However, as part of regular maintenance, we recommend you periodically check the weld lines on the frame hinge and handlepost for cracks or signs of metal fatigue. If you ride your bike heavily, for example over 25 km per day, in all kinds of weather and over rough roads, you should inspect your bike every 2 weeks. If you suspect metal fatigue, even if there are no cracks evident, or if you have any questions, please bring your bike to an authorized Tern dealer for checking.

My bike is affected, when will I receive the replacement frame?

We are already producing replacement frames and are working to get these out to our distributors as soon as we can. We apologize for the wait.

What about your other bikes?

This recall is limited to a specific frame-hinge combination produced at a single factory during a defined period of time. We no longer make bike frames at that factory.

When we found this problem, we checked other bike models made at the same factory and did not find problems. We are confident that our other bike models are OK.

What are you doing to make sure this doesn’t happen again?

We have upped the amount of testing we do, especially testing of random frames taken from production lines. We pull the frame out of production and test them to make sure they meet EN standards for strength and durability. We are making bikes that are as safe as we can make them.

I’m a second hand owner, am I still entitled to the free replacement frame?

Yes, you are, however, there might be a handling charge or labor fee.

I purchased my bike from another country, how do I apply for the free frame replacement?

You should contact the original dealer from whom you purchased the bike. That dealer will provide a free replacement. If you have moved or are otherwise too far removed from your original dealer, you can contact your local Tern dealer but they may charge a handling/labor fee for the replacement.

I think Mark Bickerton would be sort of an expert. Maybe he would like to chime in?

Alu Maga Industrial Co., Ltd., of Taiwan is the manufacturer on record for the one recall. Taicang A&I Medical Appliances Co., of Jiangsu, China is a manufacturer on record for another recall. Having the same problem with at least two different factories seems to contradict their above rationale. Additionally I believe there has been a failure on nearly all of their frames.

Thanks
Yan

Interesting that Tern blame the failures on " a specific frame-hinge combination " so what's peculiar about that mix of design materials that causes the problem. Correct me if I'm wrong but the frame hinge used on the bikes that had these failures is still in use by Tern, and frame welding has not change in concept.

Maybe somebody decided that failing frames would make them sell more Medical Appliances... :roflmao2:

Wheel chairs and bicycles share components, hence it is not uncommon for an intersection in the two.

Thanks
Yan