BruceMetras

Moultons are handmade in England.. building/brazing the steel chromoly frames is very labor intensive .. if you get a polished stainless model, an extraordinary amount of time and care is taken ... they sell every one that they build .. there is a generally a waiting period while a bike is built on a customer by customer basis.. the waiting period can be 3 months or more.. there are people who appreciate this type of attention and are more than willing to pay the going prices .. they are among the most comfortable bikes to ride, regardless of tire size ... when set up to race, they were very successful, to the point of being banned from some competitions.. they certainly are not to everyone's liking, and some can't see the value, but I think it speaks volumes that this small, factory operation has trouble keeping up with demand for their product which has spanned 50+years from their introduction.

smallwheeler

it's a shame that you had to explain that but, thanks for doing it anyway.

Abu Mahendra

As far as i am concerned, it was not necessary at all. It's not anything new or previously unknown. And it does not change my calculus in the least. I can afford a Moulton, but no, they will not be getting my money. The only 'shame' was the implication that some of us don't quite have the high-brow, refined sensibilities that your Excellencies enjoy.

smallwheeler

well, you did say this:

which conveys ignorance.

bruce is a very knowledgeable guy and also a nice man so, i'm sure his post was intended to be helpful.

jur

If you REALLY could, then you would buy one. The very fact that you decide not to, says that you actually can't, plus your choice of words say that you are quite peeved about this fact. At least I'm honest about it. I can't afford one, at least not at the moment.

Abu Mahendra

it was a reply to you, and a reaction to your post, not to his. We could have left it with his post, but you had to, as you are often wont to do, stir the pot. my beef was not with him. it is with you.

pinholecam

Thanks for the inputs.

I may still try one out in future before deciding.
In no hurry.

I had a nice foldie that had a rear elastomer suspension.
On the flats, it was a nice ride.
But if I pushed hard for speed or climbed, the bobbing was a PITA.
Later on, I tightened the suspension to the max to reduce the bobbing.
It improved, but I can still feel the reduction in pedal force to actual movement.
Thats why I'm apprehensive about rear sus bikes (birdy, moulton).
But perhaps they are better thought out in this respect.


Still have to try one out in the end.

BruceMetras

There is also a dual rate 'race spring' available for the front, and of course the ability to adjust the friction dampners (in practice, I run my bikes pretty compliant) .. much like the difference between a rigid frame motorcycle and a full suspended one, you are able to go faster in more comfort on less than perfect roads with a Moulton ..

invisiblehand

Wasn't that Jan Heine's complaint?

badmother

Could the OP plse explain what this thread is actuallu about? First:

Then:

Further:

More envy?

smallwheeler

i just read an article wherein heine demonstrates that a suspension fork or flexy steel fork reduces energy loss even on smooth surfaces.

invisiblehand

Here is recent summary on the BQ blog

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/...ension-losses/

At some point -- I have the article someplace ... probably at work where I share the magazines with some colleagues -- he test rode a Moulton. I think a stainless steel 406 model and complained about the bounciness of the rear suspension.

smallwheeler

interesting stuff as always. thanks, 'hand.

Abu Mahendra

You and Jur have already adjudicated that it it is clear case of Sour Grapes, right? What else is there to say? I don't buy everything I can afford. I was interested in something different in a frame for 406 wheels with v-brakes. I looked into a Moulton, but after getting a price quote, I don't see value in their TSR frame at $1,790 frame. Made-in-England, Made-in-Oregon, Made-in-XX place, or that the bike is one in a long line spanning back to half a century means nothing to me. And I will not pay for that. I don't own bikes to brag about or get satisfaction from how and where they were made, that it was made to my specification as the order came up on the queu, to belong to a tribe or cult, or how much they cost. I didn't say that I wasn't going to spend $1,790. I may still get a Reach which costs $200 more. I hinted that there were other competing interests more deserving in my estimation of my money (e.g. my 29"er build, a Bannard SR frame). That calculus still stands. You guys want a Moulton, you want to spend your money on one, buy all means, knock yourselves out. Over and out.

badmother

Boy you make a lot of noice...

BruceMetras

If it's the same test that I read, the bike that was used for that test was a well worn loaded tourer out of Seattle that had also been purchased used by the owner who had loaned it out for observations .. after the review, it was determined that the more complex hydrolastic sphere (not the simple rubber sphere found on the vast majority of Moultons) was not working properly.. the entire bike was sent back to England for repair/refurbishing as the bike had a lot of hard miles under its belt.. I don't know if a follow up test was ever done ... I also don't know if Jan is a masher or spinner.. generally the spinners are happier on Moultons than the mashers ..

invisiblehand

AFAIK, there was only one review. I've read most of the issues.

It was definitely a well-loved and used bike. At the time, a Moulton representative was given a chance to respond and I don't recall much substance to it. To be clear, they didn't write anything ridiculous. It just sounded like their typical pitch rather than a detailed response. I also recall a note that Moulton techs were looking at the bike but never a follow up. Naturally, my memory is loaded with mistakes.

I believe Jan has a high cadence. He uses a 46-30 chainring crank. But given his PBP times, I'm pretty sure that he's cranking out some power in the back too.

FWIW, if I was riding more, I'd seriously consider getting a TSR with the 406 wheels.

invisiblehand

Anytime bud.

dezzie

Can always join the Moulton facebook group for info, the guys who build them, write books on them, restore and have all the knowledge, info and history you could wish for and even quite a few that compete in road races and triathlons for their opinions.

bmac.to

From what I remember, Moulton fixed the bike for the owner but with the stipulation that it could not be tested again. I have always dreamed of owning a Moulton and this stipulation kind of put a damper on that dream.

invisiblehand

If true, it would be very disappointing.