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tikit is being phased out for the pakit

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tikit is being phased out for the pakit

Old 09-27-16, 07:42 PM
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Bummer

I also saw the price increase. In in my mind thought this would be my next folder. I guess not! Clearly BF was not selling enough of these to justify keeping it in the line up.

Will be interesting to see how the packit evolves. I'm curious how the rear rack will turnout, what the solution for fenders will be and if a front mounted rack will be created.
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Old 09-27-16, 07:46 PM
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From what I have noticed, the Pakit isn't nearly as good a bike as the Tikit.
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Old 09-27-16, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by DeadGrandpa
Bike Friday is simply rolling out a new,improved model, and discontinuing the older model so they won't compete with themselves in that segment.
How exactly is the pakit an improvement? Because it packs smaller? Because it can get about 2 pounds lighter? These are small potatoes.

The tikit folds ultra-rapidly and sits well in a locked position; and rolls well in the same. The pakit is terrible in this regard: its "fold" involves removing the handlebars and dangling them on the side of the bike; and it abandons the tikit's better seatpost design in favor of one involving readjusting every time. Furthermore, the only reason the rear triangle doesn't unfold again is because it's gently pressing against the seatmast tube; but it's still free to bounce. I don't see the pakit as an improvement at all, but rather a retrogression: it's a very small segment that would want to stuff an entire bike into a backpack.

So the question is: *why* is BF pushing this new bike rather than the tikit? Because they need some new blood -- perhaps the tikit sales are petering out? Because they're trying to compete more directly with Brompton? My guess is yes to both, but additionally: the tikit has been a bleeding edge bike which has caused some headaches for BF. They might have figured the calculus tilted in the favor of a new design, albeit one lacking a great many of the tikit's signature advantages.

Last edited by feijai; 09-27-16 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 09-27-16, 08:20 PM
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Short answer: I don't know because they didn't consult me. I was not aware of the differences of which you spoke, as I've not researched either the Tikit or Pakit. If I had, I probably would still have been wrong, as I am a generalist, speaking in generalities, in a world of specialists. New model introduced, old model discontinued. I postulated the two actions were related. I am frequently wrong. See, I was wrong about it being a short answer. Sorry. Maybe they were having trouble with Tikit production, cost overruns or warranty returns. There I go again.
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Old 09-27-16, 08:56 PM
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I'm hoping once they ramp up pakiT production, they will look at other markets. I cannot imagine taking the pakiT to the grocery store, for example, and bagging it and carrying it around a crowded market. And if I am going to have to lock it up, then I am fine with my NWT. I think the pakiT is of value to folks who travel a lot and want something easier to lug around. But I just don't see it for mutli-modal commuting or errand running, maybe I'm wrong...we will find out once they are on the "streets".
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Old 09-28-16, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by feijai
So the question is: *why* is BF pushing this new bike rather than the tikit? Because they need some new blood -- perhaps the tikit sales are petering out? Because they're trying to compete more directly with Brompton? My guess is yes to both, but additionally: the tikit has been a bleeding edge bike which has caused some headaches for BF. They might have figured the calculus tilted in the favor of a new design, albeit one lacking a great many of the tikit's signature advantages.
This book comes to mind:
Rick Chapman is In Search of Stupidity - Joel on Software

Why kill an overall good product that could be improved when you can replace it with an inferior productů
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Old 09-28-16, 11:34 AM
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I suppose its to satisfy the Weight Weenies .. It is said to be Lighter.

The Tikit achieved a Faster fold than Brompton, pushing the saddle forward, released the handlebar mast
and the rear section to fold, at same time.

It's introduction killed the Sat-r-day, a suitcase packable recumbent.




./.
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Old 09-28-16, 01:04 PM
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If there is continuing demand, then BF may well keep the older model. It doesn't cost them much to maintain a low production model.

However, it appears as if the Pakit has a simpler fold, and probably is easier to weld than the TiKit.

For those people who don't want to drop the change for a new bike, there are used ones available. They show up from time to time in Eugene, as well as elsewhere.

Bike Friday Tikit Folding Bike - $700 (Springfield)

Bike Friday/New World Tourist for sale!! - $900 (Eugene)

I could probably help facilitate shipping on local Eugene/Springfield bikes to USA, and perhaps Canadian locations.

I don't know what BF's wages are. I presume everything is moderate to high skilled work, and may well pay reasonably decent wages. Obviously they use components sourced globally, but the factory for building and painting (powder coating) the frames is certainly here in the USA. None of that "packaged in the USA" stuff.
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Old 09-28-16, 02:02 PM
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I don't understand this either. The Tikit is a great bike, I don't like the Packit at all. I would not be surprised if they changed their minds and moved back to producing the Tikit in bigger numbers.

Thanks,
Yan
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Old 09-28-16, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by smallwheeler
i had a feeling this was going to happen.

R.I.P world's greatest 349 platform folding bike. ]
Interesting comment small wheeler.
Could you elaborate on my you feel this is the case. I have never ridden a bike friday other than a dual drive pocket rocket.
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Old 09-28-16, 02:25 PM
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I haven't looked at the Tikit much. Perhaps I should look at it more, but I'm more of a drop-bar fan, so the Pocket Rocket and related bikes seem better suited to my needs.

The market will determine whether they produce 10 TiKits, 100, or 1000 a year. And, thus will determine whether they keep the model active.

I would think it would take very little to maintain the design for low production (assuming no critical flaws). And a web page would be essentially free to maintain as long as it doesn't confuse buyers.
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Old 09-28-16, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Abu Mahendra
I chuckle at your defense of BF prices based on 'Made in the USA'. Then when actual Americans living in the Homeland complain about their prices (two on this thread alone), you change the topic with lines like these. This fetish means that BF faces less pressure to continually explore cost reduction for the consumer because it has a captured, complaisant audience. For example, why does BF not explore high-quality manufacture of their frames in Taiwan, Malaysia, Thailand,etc., you know, those countries that already manufacture for the likes of Intel, Apple, Canon, Toyota and Shimano? This fetish ignores the interests of the American consumer for they are saddled with the high costs identified here. This fetish is a nationalist figleaf for intellectual laziness, and self-congratulatory complaisancy. 'Make America Great Again' on bicycle manufacturing? Right, Donald.

Because I can walk much better with New Balance 608s than cheaply made and short-lived Vietnamese/Chinese shoes, as one instance, and Malaysia made some of the worst Sonys I ever owned for a long time...oddly enough KOREA made some really great Pioneers in the early 80s, well before the K-boom.
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Old 09-28-16, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by downtube
I don't understand this either. The Tikit is a great bike, I don't like the Packit at all. I would not be surprised if they changed their minds and moved back to producing the Tikit in bigger numbers.

Thanks,
Yan
I agree, Yan, the pakIT seems like a 16" wheel BF travel bike like their other models, not a true folder like the tikit. I'd rather have a tikit.
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Old 09-29-16, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
I haven't looked at the Tikit much. Perhaps I should look at it more, but I'm more of a drop-bar fan, so the Pocket Rocket and related bikes seem better suited to my needs.
You will be happy to hear that the Tikit works (or worked ) splendidly with drop bars.
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Old 09-29-16, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Abu Mahendra
I chuckle at your defense of BF prices based on 'Made in the USA'. Then when actual Americans living in the Homeland complain about their prices (two on this thread alone), you change the topic with lines like these. This fetish means that BF faces less pressure to continually explore cost reduction for the consumer because it has a captured, complaisant audience. For example, why does BF not explore high-quality manufacture of their frames in Taiwan, Malaysia, Thailand,etc., you know, those countries that already manufacture for the likes of Intel, Apple, Canon, Toyota and Shimano? This fetish ignores the interests of the American consumer for they are saddled with the high costs identified here. This fetish is a nationalist figleaf for intellectual laziness, and self-congratulatory complaisancy. 'Make America Great Again' on bicycle manufacturing? Right, Donald.
So it is always going to be cheaper when the manufacturers steal designs and virtually everything else.

So in China how many of the computers used to manufacture things have hacked software on them?---virtually all of them. Anybody that takes a proprietary item to be manufactured in the far east will be competing with the guy that made it for them.

Your example--Shimano pedals were made in Taiwan until the factory they were made in started selling a knock off---imagine that.

There is a ton of pressure on all manufacturers to cut costs. BF uses computers that have legal software, CAD, and actually paid for operating systems.

There is a manufacturing axiom in taking an item to be made in China.

You design it and they will steal the design...
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Old 09-29-16, 08:56 PM
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This is a great speach as Will Butler-Adams comments on Why they still build the Brompton in England.


You might enjoy this--- Abu Mahendra
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Old 09-29-16, 08:59 PM
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Another problem with designing an item in the US and building it in China--etc. is much less contact between designer and builder. When the builder can get right into the factory it makes a positive difference in quality.

Ask Specialized how well it worked when the factory in China moved the Pivot on the FSR by 3/4 of an inch from where the designer spec'd it?
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Old 11-02-18, 06:27 AM
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Since this thread started with a link to my blog, I'll bookend it with these:

NB: since I have less than 10 posts, I can't post URL's. Search for these on my blog if you want
one-last-ride-on-the-tikit/
brompton-vs-tikit/

Short version: I sold my Tikit this summer to someone who is a Tikit enthusiast and so I'm happy it found a good home. I had it for just over five years, and I enjoyed it very much, including doing Seattle to Portland. However, for the kind of riding that I do, with some multimodal in a big city, the Brompton has been more useful due to the fact that it folds much smaller. Case in point: in one year I've logged more mileage on the Brompton than five years on the Tikit.

The shifting on the Tikit was far superior. The braking on the Brompton is much better. Both are apparently made in factories in the west that pay living wages.

Just in case you think I'm anti Bike Friday, I still have a Haul a Day and a Family Tandem, and I believe in their mission. I visited the mothership back in 2012
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Old 11-02-18, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jnyyz
Since this thread started with a link to my blog, I'll bookend it with these:

NB: since I have less than 10 posts, I can't post URL's. Search for these on my blog if you want
one-last-ride-on-the-tikit/
brompton-vs-tikit/

Short version: I sold my Tikit this summer to someone who is a Tikit enthusiast and so I'm happy it found a good home. I had it for just over five years, and I enjoyed it very much, including doing Seattle to Portland. However, for the kind of riding that I do, with some multimodal in a big city, the Brompton has been more useful due to the fact that it folds much smaller. Case in point: in one year I've logged more mileage on the Brompton than five years on the Tikit.

The shifting on the Tikit was far superior. The braking on the Brompton is much better. Both are apparently made in factories in the west that pay living wages.

Just in case you think I'm anti Bike Friday, I still have a Haul a Day and a Family Tandem, and I believe in their mission. I visited the mothership back in 2012
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Old 11-02-18, 02:26 PM
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In that PakiT is now a partial fold, rear to the side, seat mast down ,
and partial knock down, remove bar mast, front wheel ,
its similar to their travel 20" wheel ones..

A JIT build, order in build queue , bikes built for the customer
from their parts pick list, as they are next,
not warehoused ready to ship.

Brompton has racks of frame parts in various colors , frame 1 length.
but they fold with no parts removed..

that are combined to buyers preference , if not buying off the shop floor, inventory..
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Old 11-02-18, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
In that PakiT is now a partial fold, rear to the side, seat mast down ,
and partial knock down, remove bar mast, front wheel ,
its similar to their travel 20" wheel ones..

A JIT build, order in build queue , bikes built for the customer
from their parts pick list, as they are next,
not warehoused ready to ship.

Brompton has racks of frame parts in various colors , frame 1 length.
but they fold with no parts removed..

that are combined to buyers preference , if not buying off the shop floor, inventory..
For the Pakit quick fold, one does not need to remove the front wheel. Just flip the rear under and drop the seat (like a brompton). Then unclip the stem mast and attach to frame. That's all you need to do. Pick up and carry or roll on front wheel. Packing for travel ( or carrying in the stupidly large backpack) requires front wheel removal.
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Old 11-02-18, 03:45 PM
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Yup they have a back pack, available, that's part of the Name of it.. .

Seller Shipped my Tikit in the Suitcase.

(I added a strap to keep it from folding at the wrong time)
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Old 11-02-18, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
Yup they have a back pack, available, that's part of the Name of it.. .

Seller Shipped my Tikit in the Suitcase.

(I added a strap to keep it from folding at the wrong time)
Yeah, hardly anyone uses the backpack. For multi-modal, just quick fold and carry or roll. For travel, the backpack doesn't provide enough protection so you gotta use a suitcase. The backpack is about as useful as one of those nylon carry bags.
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Old 11-03-18, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick Imby
So it is always going to be cheaper when the manufacturers steal designs and virtually everything else.

So in China how many of the computers used to manufacture things have hacked software on them?---virtually all of them. Anybody that takes a proprietary item to be manufactured in the far east will be competing with the guy that made it for them.

Your example--Shimano pedals were made in Taiwan until the factory they were made in started selling a knock off---imagine that.

There is a ton of pressure on all manufacturers to cut costs. BF uses computers that have legal software, CAD, and actually paid for operating systems.

There is a manufacturing axiom in taking an item to be made in China.

You design it and they will steal the design...
This is just nonsense, doesn't make sense let alone has any evidence behind it. I am going to spend a few hundred million tooling up a factory yet a site license for some software... nah my pockets arent deep enough for that, just get cant scrape the extra few thousand together. Whatever.

The clear fact is that for bike tech Taiwan is where the expertise is. You want your bike parts made by a true expert? Then you want it done in Taiwan because that is where they are. You drop 15K on an aero road bike.. Its made in Taiwan.

Somehow its good enough for every serious bike company who sell bikes as valuable as cars, yet for little folding bikes the IP is just so awesome that Taiwan cant handle it?.. Mind boggling logic.
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Old 11-03-18, 10:03 AM
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Back to Original topic,

... in conclusion, is Has, been so, yes, production time and materials for the PakiT,
have replaced the Tikit.. They make no more..

So you now look to used bike sales.

Happy shopping...
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