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Old 10-02-17, 03:11 PM   #126
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Drilling out the bolt and replacing it is a permanent solution. Do that and the bike is repaired,...
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Old 10-03-17, 10:10 AM   #127
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Thanks for the replies all. I have just got a tax note from FeDex I had ordered the replacement bolts from Tern in Taiwan (Mobility Holdings), I bought 2 sets (4 bolts) from them. Now I got a notice that I need to pay £4 for import duty, but Fedex is charging me £12 for an "advancement fee" - apparently they had forked out their own money first to pay the £4 duty. Sigh. So I'm going to have to pay an extra £16 total for a 2x$10 bolt set. That means I will have paid £40 total for these bolts (including duty and shipping). I am losing my faith in Tern! So stressful!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzo Banana View Post
If your in the UK the 2 best folding bike bargains currently I know of are these;

Alloy Folding bike,Hi Spec,20 Inch wheel

muddyfox.com/muddyfox-evolve200-folding-bike-938023
Yes I am in the UK. Both look really nice and the second one (evolve200) especially although it says 7 Shimano gears but there is no rear derailleur? But I don't really want to spend time thinking about it, both are way above my budget. The £150 bike is already a price I'd have to really stretch out my budget for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dahoneezz View Post

Its just a broken bike. No need to be depressed about that. There are bigger things like cancer, wars and things like hurricanes and earthquakes where you loose everything! So cheer up.
I know, I used to say this to other people too. But, there are a lot of things happening, and I am out of time. I do need to make my appointments or other people will take over the lab space, and I'm really running out of time.

Quote:

While I was in college, I walked. At the end of it though, I bought a used road bike. So do you actually need a folder? If you just need transport, a used road bike would be cheaper and safer (coz no hinge). If you insist on a folder its better to pay a bit more because the hinge makes or breaks the bike.
I used to walk too. But a bit stressed out about time at the moment. I cannot use a normal bike for now (there are no railings and I have to take the bike up next to our shared space outside the lab). I would have gone for that option first if I have this choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackstrida_A_ View Post
Hi masch!

This is true tool cost here in Austria - again, where are you located?
Thanks Blackstrida_A_, I'm in London, UK. Really thanks for the offer, but I wish I had known 2 weeks ago. I've booked up the next weekends until before Christmas to use the lab so I can't work on the bike any more. Maybe early next year I can spend time on it again to remove the threaded parts of the bolts out, hope you can help me with the tools (especially the drill bit head and the drill guide) then?

Quote:
Well...he did definitely NOT advice to stop that way of repairs.
What I meant was, the bolts broke in the first place for some reason (shear stresses?) Eventually once I've replaced the old bolts with new ones, that force is still applied against the bolts and given enough wear and time they would break again unless reinforcement modifications are done on that part of the bike, if there are any. I may just try to sell off this Tern but a part of me feels that this would be irresponsible on my part.

Thanks for the replies.

(btw can anyone comment on the £99 bike or the other 2 eBay bikes I posted before?)
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Old 10-03-17, 01:27 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masch
Maybe early next year I can spend time on it again to remove the threaded parts of the bolts out, hope you can help me with the tools (especially the drill bit head and the drill guide) then?
I will, please find additional info regarding that at your pm box - which should be active now with 10 posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by masch
What I meant was, the bolts broke in the first place for some reason (shear stresses?)
And what I mean is, the bolts simply broke due to faulty manufacturing of themselves.
Shear stress would break the new bolts again.
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Old 10-03-17, 03:06 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by masch View Post

Yes I am in the UK. Both look really nice and the second one (evolve200) especially although it says 7 Shimano gears but there is no rear derailleur? But I don't really want to spend time thinking about it, both are way above my budget. The £150 bike is already a price I'd have to really stretch out my budget for.

(btw can anyone comment on the £99 bike or the other 2 eBay bikes I posted before?)
The Evolve 200 has Shimano Nexus 7 hub gears which is gears within the hub itself so are not visible externally. This is a higher cost gearing system than entry level derailleurs which is ideal for folding bikes and normally costs much more.

SG-7R46

Ignore the mention of roller brakes on the hub the Evolve has V brakes but the gearing is the same.

The cheaper ebay bikes will be usable but you are looking at products with entry level components which may be weak, require additional maintenance and will have a shorter lifespan. It doesn't mean they won't do the job but it's a route that may cause problems. Also be wary that some ebay folding bikes have low weight limits, sometimes as low as 60kg. Make sure you read the full description if heavier than that. You may have to spend some time adjusting them correctly when you get them but this is common to a lot of bikes purchased on the internet especially at lower prices.

Anyway best of luck with your Tern fix.
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Old 10-03-17, 04:17 PM   #130
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Mmmmmn.....I was always under the impression these many hinge bolt failures that have occurred were a result of a design fault, in which case the manufacturer is liable for the cost of repair. Irrespective of the bike's age or whether it's new or used liability still lies with them. I don't understand why people are buying bolt kits from around the world when it's down to Tern to sort out any costs involved in putting things right.
I'll stand corrected if wrong....
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Old 10-03-17, 04:54 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technician View Post
Mmmmmn.....I was always under the impression these many hinge bolt failures that have occurred were a result of a design fault, in which case the manufacturer is liable for the cost of repair. Irrespective of the bike's age or whether it's new or used liability still lies with them. I don't understand why people are buying bolt kits from around the world when it's down to Tern to sort out any costs involved in putting things right.
I'll stand corrected if wrong....
I agree, it should have been sent as a warranty replacement ( duty free ).

Thanks,
Yan
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Old 10-04-17, 05:11 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by downtube View Post
I agree, it should have been sent as a warranty replacement ( duty free ).

Thanks,
Yan
Terns customer service seems a bit,...lacking,...when their bikes have part/frame failures. Horrible,...
Thank goodness I bought mine from a reputable dealer!
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Old 10-04-17, 05:15 PM   #133
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Hi all

Im a newbie to the forum but a well travelled cyclist for the last 42 years. Im sure you can guess whats coming...
I also have a Tern. A Tern Eclipse P9 bought originally in the UK at Evans. It was subject to recall and a new frame was prescribed and swapped out 2 years ago. It has the newer hinge pin, not the two bolts (thankfully) not too sure if the original Eclipse had two bolts. However it started to develop a slight play in the OCL joint. Upon extraction the bushings seem to have given out and the pin has bent in to a very slight 'S' shape which is very noticeable on an engineering surface table/plate.
I ride busy London roads to work which I consider far more dangerous than the MTB stuff I do and I really dont want an accident to spoil my weekend fun.
The short of it is.
Original dealer not interested (dont worry they all have some play in them!).
No Tern spares available in the UK from other dealers for many months (will be trying Mr Bikerton next).
Loss of faith in folding bikes full stop, beginning to think they are a liability.
Im sorry but any bike frame that can be visually flexed at its mid point is going to generate a serious stress fracture sooner or later, probably along with a skeletal fracture of the rider, why am I apologising, typical English.
So i'm not so sure this hinge pin is any better than the bolts, just a stronger method that is still prone to failure eventually.

I will keep you posted.
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Old 10-04-17, 05:46 PM   #134
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Get a Brompton.
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Old 10-04-17, 05:50 PM   #135
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“Like cameras, each bike should last for about three years before it’s replaced. This will allow product designers to work towards designs which will be put into production three years from now, not in six months’ time. They will have time to work on really worthy innovations to produce true distinctions between older and new models.”
About Tern | Bicycle Business | BikeBiz

Whyterider,

You are about due for a replacement.
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Old 10-04-17, 06:46 PM   #136
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Whyterider, my Dahon Vitesse 3 frame is rock solid after 4 years almost daily riding, over NYC potholes. Didn't like the gearing or saddle it came with, also had to replace the pedals after 2 years, and 2 spokes in the rear, but would buy again in a heartbeat. A great design, imo. This can be a really fast and comfortable bike (I'm 6'4"). Rolls easily folded, and fits into an airline - legal suitcase.
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Old 10-05-17, 04:42 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technician
Mmmmmn.....I was always under the impression these many hinge bolt failures that have occurred were a result of a design fault,...
You wrote that was impression...
If it really is/was a hinge design fault - then must the new bolts break again, that is just logical.
But they did (most of them) NOT break again.
Conclusion:
The new bolts are different (=not faulty).

I do still believe that it is/was just a bolt issue, otherwise neither my friend nor me would even attempt to replace them.
My friend, who is an engineer and folding bike store owner, wanted to create an alternative repair method for his customers convenience.
Please consider that a complete frame change will take several weeks for frame delivery and many hours of working time to un/remount all parts.
Bolt repairment can be done by trained personnel within 1-2 hours.
At the Eurobike '16 already he got questionable praise by the Tern guys, they said:
"Hej, you're an exception here in Europe; you want to repair and you're also able to."
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Old 10-05-17, 09:17 AM   #138
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“Like cameras, each bikeshould last for about three years before it’sreplaced. This will allow productdesigners to work towards designs which will be put into production three yearsfrom now, not in six months’ time. They will have time to work on really worthyinnovations to produce true distinctions between older and new models.”
quote over........................


Ok .. this is out of context and also admittingly written pretty bad. What it means is that Tern does not change models every year, like other bike companies. They might change a color but basically its the same bike available for at least 3 years. It does NOT mean that the bike is junk after 3 years.


As for dyi to fix a frame with problems, do not do it. It voids the warranty, is definitely unsafe to ride.
This and any other forum is NOT the way to get things done. First contact is your dealer, if that dealer is not responsive any other listed "Brand" dealer is fine, If that doesn't work, or if there is no listed "Brand" dealer is available... ANY dealer should be able to help. Now... if that doesn't work either, than the Importer in each country is supposed to help. In the UK its Mark Bickerton... he is easy to find and email or call him directly. Its pretty icy around here in this forum, with competitors throwing oil on the fire. I don't blame him to stay away from endless ( worthless ) discussions.
But I know him personally and he is a good guy and will help you to get a new frame.
Now lets pretend this doesn't work .. than contact Tern direct ... they will help, period !


Thor
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Old 10-05-17, 10:23 AM   #139
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I would still like to know why legal action was not taken against Tern by individuals who sustained injury's as a result of faulty bikes.
The have after all admitted liability so where's the court action that usually follows such events ?
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Old 10-05-17, 10:27 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technician View Post
I would still like to know why legal action was not taken against Tern by individuals who sustained injury's as a result of faulty bikes.
The have after all admitted liability so where's the court action that usually follows such events ?
I think this is a problem. Do you know who to sue? If so please share.

Thanks,
Yan
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Old 10-05-17, 10:28 AM   #141
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I would still like to know why legal action was not taken against Tern by individuals who sustained injury's as a result of faulty bikes.
The have after all admitted liability so where's the court action that usually follows such events ?
Settlement's are usually made with non-disclosure clauses. Going public usually results in a breach of contract.
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Old 10-05-17, 10:28 AM   #142
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Thor,

He got the frame bolts from Tern, and he paid for them ( plus duty ). So I guess they took care of him.

Thanks,
Yan
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Old 10-05-17, 10:29 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorUSA View Post
Ok .. this is out of context and also admittingly written pretty bad. What it means is that Tern does not change models every year, like other bike companies. They might change a color but basically its the same bike available for at least 3 years. It does NOT mean that the bike is junk after 3 years.
It makes much more sense if you include one more line:

“We’ll refresh a third of the product line each year,” says Hon.
“Like cameras, each bike should last for about three years before it’s replaced. This will allow product designers to work towards designs which will be put into production three years from now, not in six months’ time. They will have time to work on really worthy innovations to produce true distinctions between older and new models.”

Hey, Thor,
It was great to meet you at InterBike!
Steve
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Old 10-05-17, 11:40 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technician View Post
I would still like to know why legal action was not taken against Tern by individuals who sustained injury's as a result of faulty bikes.
Before the Tern forum went dark, injured riders were reporting that they were asked to (and in good faith did) turn the broken bikes over to Tern via their dealer. I'm not suggesting anything nefarious, but will point out once past that point, the company had the artifact/evidence.

Seeing how this has all gone down, I'd encourage anyone who suffers an unrecalled broken bike frame of any type to of course allow the dealer/company to inspect/photograph it in your presence, but do not relinquish the bike until you are satisfied with the company's response/recompense.

Last edited by tcs; 10-05-17 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 10-05-17, 11:46 AM   #145
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Settlement's are usually made with non-disclosure clauses. Going public usually results in a breach of contract.


Non-disclosure usually means the kind of settlement or amount agreed is not to be disclosed, the fact that action would/could be taken would be in the public interest.
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Old 10-05-17, 12:42 PM   #146
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Non-disclosure usually means the kind of settlement or amount agreed is not to be disclosed, the fact that action would/could be taken would be in the public interest.
Actually, when a settlement is reached with someone, the person who is receiving the compensation is usually asked to sign a nondisclosure agreement which stipulates that the ENTIRE SITUATION REMAIN PRIVATE. That means no information about any of the details is to be PUBLICLY disclosed. This way a company saves face, and can continue to sell it's products without loss of revenue.

The public's best interest is of no concern to the company making the payout,...
so caring about what we know is of no concern in nondisclosure settlements.
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Old 10-05-17, 01:32 PM   #147
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As for [DIY] to fix a frame with problems, do not do it. It voids the warranty, is definitely unsafe to ride.
...
In the UK its Mark Bickerton... he is easy to find and email or call him directly.
...
But I know him personally and he is a good guy and will help you to get a new frame.
masch, if you're still reading this thread, I hope you will heed ThorUSA's words. He was a Tern dealer in the past (not sure if he still is), so I would definitely suggest contacting the UK distributor, Mark Bickerton, before you attempt a repair. Stay safe, and I hope you will keep us updated.
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Old 10-05-17, 01:46 PM   #148
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Actually, when a settlement is reached with someone, the person who is receiving the compensation is usually asked to sign a nondisclosure agreement which stipulates that the ENTIRE SITUATION REMAIN PRIVATE. That means no information about any of the details is to be PUBLICLY disclosed. This way a company saves face, and can continue to sell it's products without loss of revenue.

The public's best interest is of no concern to the company making the payout,...
so caring about what we know is of no concern in nondisclosure settlements.

That is assuming they were asked/told not to speak of course...
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Old 10-05-17, 01:56 PM   #149
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That is assuming they were asked/told not to speak of course...
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Old 10-05-17, 01:58 PM   #150
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[Now... if that doesn't work either, than the Importer in each country is supposed to help. In the UK its Mark Bickerton... he is easy to find and email or call him directly. Its pretty icy around here in this forum, with competitors throwing oil on the fire. I don't blame him to stay away from endless ( worthless ) discussions.
It is not only Tern's competitors who have been vocal in their criticism of Tern's handling of the frame failures, and I think it's unfair to imply that their motivation is commercial. downtube/Yan, for example, has regularly praised Bike Friday, Brompton, and Helix, who are all his competitors.

I am not a bike dealer, and I join many other posters on this forum in condemning Tern's suppression of frame failure evidence, denial of responsibility, and censorship of discussion on their forum regarding this topic. The recall they did issue was far from satisfactory. While mistakes happen in manufacturing, Tern's mishandling and their obvious disregard for the safety of people riding their bikes left a bad taste in my mouth.
I had a bike manufactured by Tern (a Novara FlyBy), and after learning about the debacle and seeing the photos of broken frames and serious injuries, I could not in good conscience let my wife ride it any longer, nor sell it to anyone. I think Tern makes some intriguing bikes, but I will never purchase a Tern bike in the future.
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