I haven't got a DIY yet other than the taping of the bolts inside. Still waiting to see if I can borrow money to top up for another bike. Also BlackStrida offered to help me with drill bits to extract the old threaded part out but I don't see that I could do it anytime soon, still riding (carefully) in this condition.

I have contacted Mark Bickerton by email, and he has forwarded his (and my) email to a Tern Bicycle services address with my serial number and bike QR code. I still have not got a reply on that email either from Mark or Tern (sent on 26th September). I've not followed up because I don't feel I'm entitled to any help as it was bought used. Should I write Mark another email? I really don't want to intrude on his life. I don't know what my rights are or even if I have any.


:(

My wife doesn't even want to look at that bike any more and have asked me to not keep it inside away from her.


:eek:

I thought the better models would be better. Luckily you were able to detect it (I imagine if it has been bent out far enough you wouldn't even be able to extract it out). So now it seems the frames itself are fine but their bolt manufacturer (one pin or two pin) isn't making bolts that are strong enough - whereas other bolt supplies for other bike manufacturers don't seem to be facing the same problems.

The bolt is bent out of shape by 1 degree at both ends at the point of insertion in to the bushings and one of the bushings has almost disintegrated. The main problem from my point of view is the lack of spare parts in the UK which Mark Bickerton is helping with.
With regards to the pin and bushings, like any pivot on any bike they wear over time and will need servicing and replacing on a regular basis and this is very easy to do. As a mountain biker I inspect and service such areas on a regular basis.
My concern is that this happened very quickly and the force required to bend an 8mm steel pin is not inconsiderable. Whilst the pin is ductile and will bend, the aluminium of the sleeve the pin fits in is not. Repeated stress of this nature on hardened aluminium could cause stress fractures in the sleeve which could eventually fail.
From an engineering point of view I would say the pin is strong enough for the job, the bushings need regular inspection and replacing and the sleeve on the joint i'm not sure on at the moment. Without a full metallurgical inspection it is hard to say.
In the end I think the bushings failing is what has caused the pin to bend out of shape.

Anyway, I Will keep you posted and let you all know in due course.

[MENTION=385413]tmesis[/MENTION] Thanks for the positive words. It seems a super majority of forum members have spoken poorly of Tern's position including two of the most senior members Jur and Smallwheeler. I believe there are only two members that have shown support Thor and sweeks.....and they seem to be picking their words more carefully at this point. For example sweeks claimed a design flaw ( stress riser ) and stepped back from that. While thor claimed a replacement bolt will make the frame unsafe while Tern sold the bolt to replace.

I talked with a few Tern dealers and they see tern as a victim...really. It seems Tern is doing an excellent job working with their dealers. Additionally it seems unclear who is actually responsible for these bikes. Is it the distributor? Tern a Taiwanese company, or Mobility Holdings a Hong Kong company that holds all IP ( I am not sure who owns what ), or another company that was created to deflect problems.

I believe customers which settle can state publicly that they settled, however they may not be able to speak about the terms.

Thanks,
Yan

I recall someone posting there are 15 known failures of the hinge bolt. Is this the correct number of issues documented on Tern's forums?

Thanks,
Yan

Dear Yan,

I'm Chris from Vienna, pleased to meet you.
No, definitely not.
This is an inofficial, approximately number of Tern bikes sold offline here in my area.
I hope you understand that I'm unable to supply anything to proove this number in public online.

At this chance I'd like to add also:
NEVER I wanted to recommend here to attempt this delicate repair as an average customer - this are tools for experienced mechanics!

Right now, I'm working on a few tool sample sets for approval, intended for professional workstores only, for example Thor, because...how can you tell that without trying:
Come on Thor - at least you teach your mechanics something new :p

Thanks for this sentence dear Yan...remarkable, isn't it?

I'm sorry to hear this, though perhaps only a little surprised. I live in the US, but the UK, where I assume you live, seems to have more stringent consumer protection laws in place.

According to the link below, even used goods are required to be of "satisfactory quality" and "fit for purpose." From this description, it seems to me that you are entitled to protective measures.

https://www.choose.co.uk/guide/consu...and-goods.html

I can't tell you how aggressively to pursue your case with Tern and Mark Bickerton, though if I were in your situation, I would not continue to ride that bike, and I would advocate for myself vigorously. But I understand that you may have competing priorities, including a dissertation to finish.

I think threads like this are also very bad PR for Tern--surely lurkers and posters have turned away from purchasing a Tern after coming across discussions of catastrophic frame failure. I hope that they will do the right thing and resolve the issue for you.

If we were in the same area, I would happily lend you a folding bike until you finish your dissertation. But since we don't, I'd like to make you an offer. If you choose to contact Tern and Mark Bickerton again, and do not hear back from them within a week, I will send you a modest sum towards the purchase of another bike. If you do contact them, I ask only that you document your correspondence in this thread.

What a generous and kind offer.

http://murlocparliament.com/wp-conte...8/hatsoff1.jpg

I must really thank you for your offer, even if you decide later that you cannot follow up on it. Truly I appreciate even the thought.

I have just sent them an email anyway, because I am also curious to see how good/bad their customer service is.

I still do not know what to write about to be honest. I am not even sure if it is proper to display it in public. Is it a nice thing to do?

(I'll edit this out if this is not a nice thing to do)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Jud8GLeMoP22gvrI2

I have received a reply. They are on national holidays until 12th October. So I will not expect a reply until the end of the week after their holidays.

Hi masch,

Please post your correspondence with Tern only as much as your comfort allows. I requested documentation in hopes that it might spur Tern to rectify your issue with a broken frame, and that in the future, it might be informative to others who might find themselves in similar situations.

Also, please PM me your PaylPal or Venmo information. I'd like to make a small contribution that you can use toward a new bike, if you should need one.

I'll send $50. PayPal???

Thanks
Yan

Couldn't you just send him a bike :lol:

Maybe Tern should just send him a bike.

Thanks,
Yan

Considering what happened that's certainly true. However I get the impression Tern are so tight they'd use both sides of toilet roll paper. Can't see them providing anymore than the minimum they are legally obliged to at best which I guess would be a frame. Even then getting to that point would be a sequence of difficult hurdles to overcome especially as not the original purchaser of the bike.

I remember making a claim against my credit card company for a bike falsely described as aluminium which the supplier refused to collect despite arriving with obvious rust on the frame. I somehow had to get a written report from a bicycle mechanic to show it wasn't aluminium at my expense. Despite sending clear images of rust and a magnet attracted to the frame. These shake off procedures are common. A rude follow up letter offering to bring the bike to one of their local offices and threat of legal action soon ended the issue. Many companies have excellent customer service, many sadly don't.

Tern hired a Bay area law firm the file a patent infringement lawsuit against me. I think they burn plenty of money on lawyers and marketing. It seems they are only stingy with customers.

Thanks,
Yan

Isn't that the same as Dahon though, stating they own IP on other brand's bikes despite those parts operating and being manufactured in a completely different way with different materials to Dahon. Same people in charge for a long period. It's bullying tactics of a large company against a smaller company. Can you afford the money and time to get into a full legal conflict with Tern, I suspect it is something you would want to avoid. From what you have said their legal action was completely baseless, just imagine what would happen if they found some actual genuine tiny infringement of their IP lets say because one of your supplier's made mistake in the design of a part, Tern would try to destroy you I'm sure trying to get the absolute maximum damages from you that would make your business untenable.

Personally I see the same tactics in Tern as Dahon, hardly surprising when its been the same people at the top who were originally at Dahon and now at Tern. It wouldn't stop me buying their products if the product was right for me but no fan of such companies. If everything else was equal and I had a choice of Tern/Dahon or another brand I'd go for the other brand.

I'm sure to companies like Tern aggressively bullying their competitors using legal channels is money well spent. They may even spin it so they seem the damaged party for marketing purposes.

Not sure what incident you're referring to, but most recently it was Brompton that claimed 'they own IP on other brand's bikes despite those parts operating and being manufactured in a completely different way with different materials'. When you go to court you have to prove things with facts, though, and Brompton's management wound up looking rather foolish.

I don't believe Dahon sue's competition. Additionally Tern has taken most of Dahon's IP.

Thanks
Yan

Originally Posted by Bonzo Banana :
Personally I see the same tactics in Tern as Dahon

Afaik, Dahon is not quite as bad as Tern, although I've had Dahon weasel out on warranties.

Please take a look at Tern Signs IP Licensing Deal with Avocet Sports . I believe they used the same non-sense IP to threaten this company into giving concessions. FYI they sued me for the Ferrari folding bikes.

Thanks,
Yan

Hello everyone.

The Tern Representative in the UK Mark Bickerton has replied to my email which I will not include here but will be paraphrasing it. The reason is because his email would have been intended for me only and it would not be nice to betray that trust. Therefore they would be under no liability to the general public for what they have written.

--

Mark has written to request the Frame serial number which is stamped into the bottom bracket. Apparently I assumed the QR code was for the frame serial number but I was wrong. Mark also wrote that they also suspect that the replacement of the bolt and its bushing kit may not be sufficient to fix the bike frame. Mark recommendeds replacing the frame rather than fixing it.

Mark also asked me some further questions, like where was the bike purchased, and was it bought from the original owner, and if I have the original proof of purchase or record of servicing the bike.

He also wrote that my bike is out of warranty cover because I am not the original owner and that if I need to get the frame replaced then I would need to approach a Tern dealer and they would ensure the right parts are made available to the dealer at minimum cost.

--

I have written a reply to his email:

https://imgur.com/NmOOuGS

--

I also must write that I am overwhelmed by your offers to contribute your hard earned cash to me. But please know that my earlier post about setting up a GoFundMe wasn't a serious post but it was me being emotional and only set it up as a challenge because I thought the members here were hostile to Tern for no good reason and I wanted to see if the hostility was evidence based or just some sort of wild accusation levelled at a genuine and sincere manufacturer. I admit I have made a mistake in my assumption and it does seem like many of hostility displayed are somewhat warranted. It was a surprise to me as this forum is the first place I read about Tern's problems - I could not find complaints against them in any other place. The accusation of strict moderation at Tern's forum too has turned out to be true - until today they have not approved my post regarding my issue.

So while I could use the monetary contributions, I could not imagine accepting them (Well I can imagine but I can't imagine being happy with it). I haven't earned them for sure. And I think it may send the wrong message - you can't send money to everyone who will experience Tern frame failure problems.

But I must emphasize that I do appreciate your offers and the thought of this support has indeed made this journey a little less stressful. Thank you to all of you.

We are all in this world together. We all need help at some point. Please reconsider.

Thanks
Yan

Hi masch,

Thank you for the update, and I'm glad that you were able to get a response from Tern. I hope that they'll replace your frame.

As for monetary contribution, I agree with Yan. While I can't help everyone, not so long ago I was unable to help anyone, and now I'm in a position to help someone, however modestly. Please feel free to PM me if you change your mind.

Hi all.

Mark Bickerton has sent me a reply.

He said thanks for the frame information and asked me to take the bicycle to a bicycle repair shop that knows how to re-frame the bikes, ideally a Tern dealer. They will order replacement frames from the UK distributor and will charge for parts and labour and I should get a quote from them. Then I should decide whether or not the costs are acceptable and proceed with it.

He said he sympathizes but the Tern Bicycles warranty is only applicable to the original owner.

He also said that he can confirm that the hinge construction has been improved on later models but the two pin hinge system when manufactured to their standards was a good product and that they have found that all instances of failure were either due to 1) poor manufacture 2) user misuse (lack of adjustment/maintenance). He ends the email by saying he will be unavailable for the next two weeks or so.

So in summary Tern is asking me to purchase a new replacement frame and get a dealer to do the work on it. I am feeling a bit disappointed but can't say I should be surprised. There is no guarantee the new frame will last very long either, there are many records of them failing.

Basically what Tern is telling the world is that if you buy a Tern then you should own it for its entire lifespan. You should not ever sell it used because the new user is not protected by Tern should anything happen to it. It wouldn't have much resale value anyway once every buyer realizes that they should not buy a used Tern.

Anyone who finds this post on Google because you're researching whether or not to buy a nice used Tern bicycle (Link, Verge, Eclipse) should carefully consider this:
1) You will not be protected if you experience a frame failure. You really should negotiate enough of a discount to account for a replacement frame + labour.
2) It is not as if the Tern bikes rarely experience frame failures. They happen and it happens quite a bit. In my case it failed while crossing an intersection. In this thread alone the posters have identified three methods of frame failures : the welding at the folding joint, the snapping in two of the two frame hinge bolts, and the bending out of shape of the single frame hinge bolt system.

I won't elaborate further about this right now, I don't want my emotions to influence what I write.

Precisely the kind of defect and response to it that relegates a company from catering to a sophisticated and discriminating customer, to one that gets 1 shot at a novice or unwary buyer.

If you buy a cheap foldie from Ebay, I think you will end up in the same situation if the bike breaks. Warranty problem. Also potential hinge breakage. To avoid hinge problems, buy foldies with no mid span hinges. But they are not cheap I think. (Birdy, Pacific Reach, FSIR, Ahooga). Look up the FSIR thread. Its probably way cheaper than a Birdy, but still more than the Ebay bikes.


What bike is that? In the UK as well? :eek: