Trailers with a single rear wheel like the BOB put about half of the weight on the rear wheel of the bike and put a lot of torsional constraints on the bike rear wheel+bike rear triangle while trailers with center wheels like the Radical Design, if well loaded put only a small part of the weight on the rear wheel and almost no torsional constraints (the hitch is a ball).

The Bike Friday trailer has its wheels not in the center, so a big part of the load is also on the bike rear wheel (but less than with the BOB) and its wheels are 12" much smaller than the one the Radical Design that rides pretty well and is really lightweight.

But its true that traveling with a trailer has some drawbacks.

The problems with the BOB may have been partly due to torsion inputs, though pulled by my recumbent, there was no lateral rocking; This might be more of a problem on my current bike which I rock laterally when climbing. But no question that the pivot location behind the tire was problematic, just as the drawback of a typical vehicle trailer hitch with a large vehicle overhang behind the axle and a heavy hitch load, versus a 5th-wheel couple at axle center. On fast descents with steering input, the tail would wag the dog, and that was with a very long wheelbase recumbent. (However, due to the aft pivot, BOBs track well in tight off-road trail turns, not turning inside the bike's tracks and thus running into a tree.) Most bike trailers, with a single-side coupling near rear axle center, stable on two wheels, and thus ball-joint connection to the bike, have excellent dynamic behavior. After a detailed course in Vehicle Dynamics of Heavy Duty Truck and Trailer Systems, I realized a possible solution design that would maintain the BOB advantages but solve the sway. However not long thereafter, I saw another company (larger than BOB) pretty much copy the BOB design, and I figured they would do the same with my design, so I stayed out of the field. It's a shame, because the BOB is a nice narrow, roadfriendly and aerodynamic setup.

If you are riding on hilly gravel, keep in mind that a trailer that transfers some of the total load to the trailer wheel(s) has less weight on the tire that is providing propulsion effort. Less weight on that tire and it can lose traction easier on gravel.

I was on a group tour, one of the people in the group had the trike with trailer in the photo below, he was quite concerned about some gravel uphills where he was not sure if he would have good enough traction because only about 35 to 40 percent (my guess) of his total weight was on the driving wheel.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1907257667.jpg

He made it up the hills, but his concern was partly based on prior experience when he did not have enough weight on the driving wheel to prevent traction loss.

Well said. The actual term is tractive effort to GVW ratio (TE/GVW). And it can be traction-limited, or power-limited, so two different calculations are required to predict vehicle performance.

This is what gives me warm fuzzy thoughts about a bike with a front hub electric drive, as, combined with pedal power, it gives you AWD up steeps with loose traction. There is an electric bike out there with both front and rear hub motors and wide tires, and it's unstoppable, even on deep beach sand and up hills.

Actually, I have one customer who flew many times with his Origami Gazelle just in the carry bag while on active duty in the Army. He lined it with sheets of dense foam that were maybe 1/2" thick, and some heavier corrugated paper. He did it enough times to wear out the bag, so I gave him another. I am not sure if he continued to travel like that after his military career.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...178da3a7d.jpeg

The Origami Swift actually fits nicely into a standard 30" suitcase (not an over-sized bag).

Actually, I have one customer who flew many times with his Origami Gazelle just in the carry bag while on active duty in the Army. He lined it with sheets of dense foam that were maybe 1/2" thick, and some heavier corrugated paper. He did it enough times to wear out the bag, so I gave him another. I am not sure if he continued to travel like that after his military career.

That looks a lot more like disassembly than just folding. I'm not up for that much work

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e7ee07365.jpeg
4 bikes in 4 soft bags. Just folded, padded with hard cardboard and plastic wrap, zero disassembly. No excess baggage fees.

That's pretty cool, but also I see in your bike list "home made bamboo cargo bike" -- :eek: I'd love to see info about that, have you posted on BF in another thread?

yeah there’s a thread on here all about that. From
back in 2006 😮

Can you link it for me?

a quick search took me back to this thread:

https://www.bikeforums.net/framebuil...9-bambooo.html

looks like the images have expired though

ok that just makes me sad now -- I wanna see pics of a homemade bamboo cargo bike!

About a month ago I was in the office/warehouse of Selle Anatomica (I live like 2 miles away). I met the owner, very nice lady, she took over the company from her brother who died, and she keeps in her office his calfee bamboo road bike. It looked really cool (and of course had a Selle Anatomica saddle on it)

here you go


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f965ff039.jpeg

That is not a quick way to pack a folder. I packed up my Joey Airnimal with 24 inch wheels in my S&S Backpack case once, it looks like it was just as much work as you needed to do to pack that. That case meets the standard airline 62 inch criteria.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...37503d879c.jpg

I added a DIY center support to my S&S case, just in case the airline baggage handlers stacked a lot of luggage on top of mine.

I only flew with the Airnimal once. It was almost as much work as packing my heavy touring bike with S&S Couplers, as below.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ee3ca9bb06.jpg

My point is that when the time to pack a folding bike approaches the amount of time to pack a bike with S&S Couplers or a Ritchey Break Away, the advantages of having a folder instead of a full size bike are somewhat diminished.

That said, thanks for posting the photos of the folder. I am sure some on this forum will find that useful.

(above #116) Well I think with a tandem, couplers are essential. That said, if the airline industry could get sold on a rinko'ed full-size bike being within size limits, and thus folders as well (as folded), that would obviate the need for couplers. But supposedly most airlines now allow bikes at normal checked bag fee without oversize charge (except Southwest), I think that's a big box with pedals off and handlebars turned. Still pretty cumbersome. I'd be happy if Southwest (no charge for checked bags) would not charge for rinko or folder above 62" but below the monster size box.

Right. You're not the first to lend creedence that the Swift is neither fish nor fowl. It provides neither a true, freestanding fold that fits within a 20" folding bike bag without (disc!) wheel removal, nor a simple, quick disassembly.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b9e28a3c60.jpg
The Swift "fold"

I love the fact that you such strong opinions about things you don’t know.

Well, I do know slippery salesmen so there's that. And when it comes to the bike, it's all there in plain view in your own content, I am afraid. Simple as that. I note that you did not speak to or refute any of the ideas expressed here about the bike, focusing instead on my person. Unsurprising.

But don't mind me. There's thirteen hundred views of the product video in 10 months. I'm sure it's flying off the shelves. Bravo. 👏🏼

One is a well liked and respected owner of a bike company.
The other is a reviled know it all with a piss poor attitude.

Who should we trust?

Easy. The one with no financial motive or intent to shill his own wares here. The one with whom another is not enthralled in a bootlicking bromance.

Sounds like sour grapes....

In my active months on here (I joined BF years ago but didn't know about the folding group until early this year), my perceptions are:
- All folding bikes have some advantageous attribute of some kind. For the Swift it's no lateral hinge in the main frame beam.
- If one is not flying with the bike, or frequent multi-mode transport and/or involving carrying, so mostly just the ability to fit in a car trunk or small apartment, nearly any folding bike will do.
- Conversely, if traveling by air or frequent multi-mode transport (meaning easily bringing aboard into the cabin of a bus or train) or carrying, a neat and compact fold, easily, begins to matter immensely. There is where folders get into the rare air, and also sometimes sacrificing other functionality. Not including clones in the count and just the original design, I would bet the very compact folding designs can be counted on one hand:
* Brompton
* Dahon Curl D9 (a variation on the Brompton but gets credit for disc brakes and front fork innovation). However it may be vaporware, non-existent.
* ?

I suggest you familiarize yourself first with the meaning of Aesop's fable.