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Old 06-19-17, 10:00 AM   #1
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Another Brompton Clone

Apparently available now ...

https://www.cyclelogy.sg/collections...-bici-standard

No front mount. Aluminum frame. I assume that this is a descendant from Merc/Flamingo.
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Old 06-19-17, 10:01 AM   #2
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Oh ... I didn't see it in the archives. If I missed it and this is old news, my apologies.
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Old 06-19-17, 11:36 AM   #3
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Apparently available now ...

https://www.cyclelogy.sg/collections...-bici-standard

No front mount. Aluminum frame. I assume that this is a descendant from Merc/Flamingo.
I think you are right. Flamingo came into my mind when I saw the photo. A more refined Flamingo it is.
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Old 06-19-17, 02:20 PM   #4
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I really like the look of this but some of the parts are very low end. The handlebar stem and pedals look entry level at best. The main aluminium frame looks professional and with decent welds but the rear sub frame looks junk quality. How on earth is that level of welding acceptable. I assume that is a steel part welded in house due to its custom design to copy the Brompton design. Looks rubbish quality.




Actually seems expensive based on the quality of components and construction quality. I'd rather get a secondhand Brompton myself. Steel goes on for ever if its not allowed to corrode, it doesn't suffer from fatigue and I have my doubts whether this bike would last long, it looks like a basic copy at best. However I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong because the fold looks great and if the quality was good all round then fantastic but my initial great impression was soon darkened by looking more closely at the bike construction and its parts. I believe many Brompton clones are made in China but its often hard to search alibaba to find them. I found this sort of Brompton clone although not as direct as la bici.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...7115.11.eRLkDp
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Old 06-19-17, 02:39 PM   #5
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That's an interesting Alibaba page. But the Alibaba bike's fold is somewhat different.
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Old 06-19-17, 03:48 PM   #6
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Large diameter aluminum main frame (Flamingo/MIT has shaped, hydroformed tubes.) Folds to non-drive side. Latches with safeties, telescopic handlepost, rotatable bars, actual dropouts on the forks. Seems to be an independently conceived and executed Brompton homage. ~Five Benjamin US - not bad, not bad.

BTW - The Alibaba bike is inspired by the Oyama Space Genie of a decade+ ago. Different fold geometry.
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Old 06-19-17, 09:47 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Bonzo Banana View Post
I really like the look of this but some of the parts are very low end. The handlebar stem and pedals look entry level at best. The main aluminium frame looks professional and with decent welds but the rear sub frame looks junk quality. How on earth is that level of welding acceptable. I assume that is a steel part welded in house due to its custom design to copy the Brompton design. Looks rubbish quality.




Actually seems expensive based on the quality of components and construction quality. I'd rather get a secondhand Brompton myself. Steel goes on for ever if its not allowed to corrode, it doesn't suffer from fatigue and I have my doubts whether this bike would last long, it looks like a basic copy at best. However I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong because the fold looks great and if the quality was good all round then fantastic but my initial great impression was soon darkened by looking more closely at the bike construction and its parts. I believe many Brompton clones are made in China but its often hard to search alibaba to find them. I found this sort of Brompton clone although not as direct as la bici.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...7115.11.eRLkDp
The la bici posted here is aluminium. Aluminium welding beads are typically a fair bit larger compared to steel due to the thermal conductivity and melding point differences of the two metals.

The price is in Singapore Dollars, not US dollars ( US$1 = SG$1.385).
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Old 06-19-17, 10:16 PM   #8
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What's the weight limit on this thing?
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Old 06-20-17, 12:29 AM   #9
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https://www.cyclelogy.sg/collections/la-bici
https://www.togoparts.com/forum/show...255&page_id=-1
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Old 06-20-17, 03:07 AM   #10
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The la bici posted here is aluminium. Aluminium welding beads are typically a fair bit larger compared to steel due to the thermal conductivity and melding point differences of the two metals.

The price is in Singapore Dollars, not US dollars ( US$1 = SG$1.385).
I have no problem with the main aluminium frame my point was the rear sub frame that surely has to be steel you wouldn't want thin aluminium tubing like that which looks like very low fatigue resistance with much flexing. Has to be steel surely. If it is aluminium that's got to be a good reason to avoid the bike. Even if steel construction looks poor and long term strength looks minimal.

Yes I realised it was singapore dollars not us dollars but still felt it was expensive considering the components and construction and also that price would be higher in Europe or US.

I don't have a Brompton or any intention to buy one but hats off to the company for providing a bike with great reliability and very long term lifespan. I like Raleigh Twenties and even though I have an example half a century old its still a strong usable frame that will outlast many new aluminium frame bikes.

The Brompton frame is designed around steel and the fact steel can flex without fatigue. Taking the impacts out of rough quality roads to the rider is part of that main steel tube. I'm not sure replacing it with a rigid thick aluminium tube is necessarily a good thing. Yes on face value people may think aluminium is more premium than steel but in reality for non competitive cycling I personally think steel is a lot better.

I'd rather a cheap clone of Brompton was still using steel for all parts of the frame personally. From what I've read its common for many factories in China to buy in their aluminium frames from major frame manufacturers like fuji-ta but produce welded steel parts and frames themselves and the quality of steel welding varies a lot. Of course I don't know but this looks to me like a bought in high quality aluminium frame but low end steel welding in-house. Many chinese manufacturers do very high quality steel welding but not all. You see chinese steel folding bikes from as little as $25 per unit on a 200-500 unit order on alibaba. The welding on that sub frame reminds me of the welds you get on some of those cheap $25 folders when you look close up at the frame welds. Not that all $25 bikes are badly welded some are look very good.

All steel bike here with a 150kg loading capacity.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...7115.85.RBmD50

I'm just making the point if you are using lower end components in a low cost manufacturing country something like $100 manufacturing cost and $299 retail is easily achievable at least for direct sellers.
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Old 06-20-17, 07:18 AM   #11
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Andrew Ritchie's inspired, inspiring folding bike design marches on! La Bici joins Beiou, Burke, Chedech, Dahon, Flamingo, MIT, Neo, Oyama, Pico, Sanye and probably others.

Quote:
A more refined Flamingo it is.
Nope. Here's the new, more refined Flamingo:

Flamingo 2017.jpg

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Old 06-20-17, 08:07 AM   #12
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Andrew Ritchie's inspired, inspiring folding bike design marches on! La Bici joins Beiou, Burke, Chedech, Dahon, Flamingo, MIT, Neo, Oyama, Pico and Sanye and probably others.



Nope. Here's the new, more refined Flamingo:

Attachment 568493
Wow, it looks more robust. But the La Bici is cute.
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Old 06-20-17, 10:47 AM   #13
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I generally agree with your perspective on costs but that's all relative. You are clearly not their target audience/clientele.

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The Brompton frame is designed around steel and the fact steel can flex without fatigue. Taking the impacts out of rough quality roads to the rider is part of that main steel tube. I'm not sure replacing it with a rigid thick aluminium tube is necessarily a good thing. Yes on face value people may think aluminium is more premium than steel but in reality for non competitive cycling I personally think steel is a lot better.
But that steel can flex without fatigue idea is wrong.

All solid materials have a fatigue life. ALL. You can google about it.

Steel in general has a threshold for stress load, below which, the load cycle fatigue limit is almost infinite. Not quite but almost. So for a steel frame to demonstrate no fatigue failure in the long term, a frame has to be designed in such a way as to keep stress levels well below that stress load threshold, of the specific material in use.

Steel is not magic, its just that most bicycle frames are over-engineered in use with Steel.
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Old 06-20-17, 11:06 AM   #14
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...You can google about it...
Google is a search engine, not a verb.
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Old 06-20-17, 11:28 AM   #15
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I generally agree with your perspective on costs but that's all relative. You are clearly not their target audience/clientele.



But that steel can flex without fatigue idea is wrong.

All solid materials have a fatigue life. ALL. You can google about it.

Steel in general has a threshold for stress load, below which, the load cycle fatigue limit is almost infinite. Not quite but almost. So for a steel frame to demonstrate no fatigue failure in the long term, a frame has to be designed in such a way as to keep stress levels well below that stress load threshold, of the specific material in use.

Steel is not magic, its just that most bicycle frames are over-engineered in use with Steel.
I meant a steel frame can be designed so fatigue is pretty much eliminated assuming the frame isn't abused and gets normal use but an aluminium frame starts strong and always gets weaker over time hence why many steel frames have very long warranties and aluminium frame warranties are shorter. This isn't new information and is well known. You can see on this graph the reducing strength of aluminium compared to steel. The steel strength flatlines but aluminium just keeps getting weaker. I know we can say both steel and aluminium can suffer from fatigue but the reality is it can be pretty much eliminated from steel frames but is much more difficult to do so with aluminium without making the frame too heavy and losing desirable characteristics. The german manufacturer kalkhoff have some excellent information in their manuals about frame strength and the properties of different materials its worth reading. It's important people understand steel represents a frame that can outlast it's rider. In our throwaway society its a major positive I think.

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Old 06-20-17, 11:40 AM   #16
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Google is a search engine, not a verb.
"'To google' was added to the Oxford English Dictionary on June 15, 2006, and to the eleventh edition of the Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary in July 2006."

In other news, La Bici seems to be a redecal of the Neo, a Chinese origin Brompton homage folding bike that has appeared on this forum in the recent past.

Neo.jpg
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Old 06-20-17, 12:00 PM   #17
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All steel bike here with a 150kg loading capacity.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...7115.85.RBmD50
If this answer is directed at my question, it's not answering my question. I didn't ask about this low end fake spec'd bike. I asked about the bike originally posted here, in this thread, by the OP.
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Old 06-20-17, 12:04 PM   #18
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Meh..

# 16 shows a bike with a lot more trail, Handling may be rather weird.






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Old 06-21-17, 05:07 AM   #19
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"'To google' was added to the Oxford English Dictionary on June 15, 2006, ....
Oooh the old man got pwned and rekt. RIP old English of my youth.
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Old 06-21-17, 05:57 AM   #20
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I think folding to the non-drive side is less than optimal. This leaves the greasy chain, and delicate chain tensioner/IHG cable exposed. That's another big thing I really like about my Brompton (w/rack) over my other folders - It has one really stable/well protected edge to stand on, and side to lie down on.
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Old 06-21-17, 08:57 AM   #21
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RIP old English of my youth.
Beowulf said it best: "Forhwierfan wgn syndrig st."
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Old 06-22-17, 05:49 PM   #22
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Another copy, much closer to the one mentioned above:

"3Sixty CIGNA"


I guess Brompton doesn't have the money to sue companies in Asia, at least outside China.

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Old 06-22-17, 06:32 PM   #23
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I guess Brompton doesn't have the money to sue companies in Asia, at least outside China.
On what basis could they?
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Old 06-22-17, 06:48 PM   #24
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Copyright.
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Old 06-22-17, 08:08 PM   #25
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Another copy, much closer to the one mentioned above:

"3Sixty CIGNA"

That's in Singapore dollars too as the bikeshop is based there.
Pretty good prices, just a question of how well does it ride.
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