Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Folding Bikes
Reload this Page >

Which has less pedal bob when standing, Birdy or Moulton??

Folding Bikes Discuss the unique features and issues of folding bikes. Also a great place to learn what folding bike will work best for your needs.

Which has less pedal bob when standing, Birdy or Moulton??

Reply

Old 01-22-18, 04:53 PM
  #51  
Rick Imby
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 668
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 236 Post(s)
The scalpel has the same issue---it pivots at the BB.
Rick Imby is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-18, 04:53 PM
  #52  
Rick Imby
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 668
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 236 Post(s)
I gotta say those Moultons are beautiful...
Rick Imby is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-18, 01:01 AM
  #53  
Jipe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Originally Posted by h88711 View Post
And to get back on track re BOB...

my 1965 Moulton bobs very gently when, whilst seated, attempting to force the pace, something I'm not accustomed too after riding rigid races for ever.
It probably means I need to pedal a bit smoother and I need to try out my sons old fully suspended Cannondale Scapel that has no pivots but uses flexing carbon chainstays and a damper.

Cheers
Andrew
The old Moulton rear frame is quite different from the current space frame with unified rear triangle. The current AM range space frame that has no unified rear triangle is closer.

Note that the BOB you feel depends also of the front suspension stiffness for the current range there are 3 spring stiffness.
Also the TSR fork is made differently from the higher end models with leading link fork (not speaking of the NS series fork) and the same spring gives a different feeling when fitted in a TSR than in the higher end models.

It is not really possible to compare a mountain bike suspension with a road bike suspension.
Jipe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-18, 03:17 AM
  #54  
jur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 7,409
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
I took one look at your AM Speed in stainless and decided I need one. I figured if I sold my 2 APBs I might swing it. Took a look at the price... Yeeaaahhh. Right. I would not pay that. I could afford it if I wanted to but it's not worth that much to me. Stunning bike, like the Aston Martin of bicycles. I still want one.
jur is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-18, 03:48 AM
  #55  
Jipe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Yes, it is expensive like any of the hand polished stainless steel models.

But if you compare the price with the price of other hand made high end road bikes like for instance the Passoni Lightsteel also in Columbus Hcr steel but painted and not polished, it seems normal because there is much more time needed to build a space frame like the one of the Moulton than a classic diamond frame: the space frame has much more pieces and much more points the braze than a diamond frame. Then you can easily imagine how long it takes to hand polish all those tiny tubes !

One remark about the names of the models which are confusing: the MOULTON Speed is very different from the MOULTON AM Speed

AM Speed is an AM type frame with 17" wheels, classic rear suspension without unified rear triangle and a Kasei NiCroMo steel frame, not stainless steel.

The same apply for the Jubilee: some website/people talk about the AM Jubilee, but like the Speed, the Jubilee is also not an AM frame.

For h88711: if you are 1.82m tall, generally speaking, a size 58 frame seems quite big for you, even if due to the lack of frame size standardization you can need a size 58 for some brands, in most brand I think that you would need a size 56 frame and a Moulton with a long stem and layback head might fit you, if you have an opportunity, it is worth to try a Moulton.
Jipe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-18, 04:22 AM
  #56  
berlinonaut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 452
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 204 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
For h88711: if you are 1.82m tall, generally speaking, a size 58 frame seems quite big for you, even if due to the lack of frame size standardization you can need a size 58 for some brands, in most brand I think that you would need a size 56 frame and a Moulton with a long stem and layback head might fit you
I am a tad taller than that with long legs, typically needing a frame between 58cm and 60 cm and ride my TSR quite happily. It was however quite a journey to get there, needing a longer seat post and fiddling around with different stems and risers for quite a while. Part of the problem was actually finding parts that offered the necessary big amount of gain in reach and height at the front - far more than common. As I bought the bike used I had to do this myself - when buying a new bike hopefully the dealer with his experience will step in here. Rationally speaking the TSR would be far too small for me. Just that I like it and there is none with a bigger frame. Therefore for me it was worth going through the process.
berlinonaut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-18, 01:32 PM
  #57  
h88711
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22

Bikes: 65 Moulton, 84 Colnago Master, 92 Mondia Winner, 04 Dahon Speed TR, 2010 Specialized Tricross

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Berlinonaut has exactly the same problem as me... long legs and the desire to own a modern Moulton!
"It was however quite a journey to get there" I'm afraid to go down this road just yet.

Getting the seat in the right position is usually pretty easy, but bringing the handlebars into position is much more difficult but not impossible. Post a photo of your TSR please!

Jibe: generally I think your right but I've had couple of 56cm steel framed racers, but they were too low with standard road stems.

Check out my 58cm Colnago Master on classic and vintage forum and you'll see my position and its pretty comfortable on longer rides.

Thanks for your comments and hints guys
h88711 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-18, 08:56 AM
  #58  
Jipe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
If you like a relatively upright position, then it can indeed be a problem, most road bike aren't foreseen for that, maybe a model labelled as granfondo could fit.

For the Moulton, the wishbone stem in its longest version could be a solution: it is long and its angle is adjustable, drawback: heavy and expensive (I would say very expensive wrt. the price of a TSR)
Jipe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-18, 01:29 PM
  #59  
berlinonaut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 452
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 204 Post(s)
Originally Posted by h88711 View Post
Berlinonaut has exactly the same problem as me... long legs and the desire to own a modern Moulton!
"It was however quite a journey to get there" I'm afraid to go down this road just yet.
Your's will probably be far shorter as you do not have to make my mistakes.

The seatpost-part is pretty easy, at least with the Moulton TSR: The original one was too short for me but the diameter is the same as the Brompton seatpost. Therefor I bought a titanium seatpost intended for Bromptons via ebay from Asia for small money - works flawlessly. You just have to care that the post does not have the "flange" at the lower end that traditional Brompton-posts have.

With the front I had a lot of hassle. I played with various riser-solutions and different stems, some of them adjustable, which all turned out to be crap for my needs in one way or another. In the end three solutions were left (if you want a straight bar like I did):

- The ergotec high-charisma stem. Worked pretty well, looks good and is affordable. Downside is though it provides recognizable height and reach both turned out to be to small in the long run. Therefor after some time I exchanged it but would still recommend it in general.

After a long search I stumbled upon my actual soultion by accident: The stem riser that is used by Airnimal for their bikes. They have two different ones, a fixed one with bolts for their Chameleon and a removable on constisting of two parts from the Joey. Both work, but slightly different. The Chameleon one can easily be cut to size regarding heigth if it is to high but for using it you have to use a thingy called "Ring-o-star" which is a bit of a pain to mount properly. Not recommended if you plan to take apart your moulton regularly for travel.
The one from the joey consists of two parts (and is used by some models of circe and pacific cycles as well). You can find it as "quick release steerer extender" here at Airnimal. Looks pretty good, works flawlessly and is perfectly designed for taking apart the bike as well. Only downside is that you can only cut it a limited amount but possibly that should not be an issue.
With both airnimal extenders you can use any stem you like - pretty cool.

Just to mention it: Another possibiliy would be to convert the TSR's Ahead-fork to a threaded fork and use a traditional stem. I know that some people did that but did not investigate that route further.

Cannot post a picture atm as I am currently not in the same location as my bike.
berlinonaut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-18, 02:11 PM
  #60  
Jipe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
The problem you encountered comes also from the fact that you bought your TSR used.

The ahead fork has a long tube that is cut to the height asked by the customer.

If you buy the bike new, you can ask a very high position with consequence that the ahead fork tube won't be cut short and spacers rings will be placed between the stem and frame.

If you look at the picture of my Speed, you will see that the ahead fork tube was cut too high for me and that I lowered the stem by placing some of the spacers above the stem while they were originally under the stem (I could also cut the ahead fork tube shorter but preferred not to do so to keep the freedom to change the stem height).

If you combine that with a long wishbone stem that has an adjustable angle, you should be able to adjust your position to your taste.
Jipe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-18, 03:10 PM
  #61  
berlinonaut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 452
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 204 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
The problem you encountered comes also from the fact that you bought your TSR used.

The ahead fork has a long tube that is cut to the height asked by the customer.
(...)
If you combine that with a long wishbone stem that has an adjustable angle, you should be able to adjust your position to your taste.
Yes, indeed. In fact I have two TSR, both bought used, with different steerer tube lengths. The shorter of the two is still in project state but it's steerer will be a perfect fit for an Airnimal Joey extender as it has been cut quite short some time in the past. The other one is set up as a tourer and has, as far as I can judge from comparing with other TSRs, not been cut or just minimally. Still it is too short. But clearly one can safe a lot of trouble and effort in that area when buying new. And buying used from the uk safes a hell of a lot of money in comparison to buying a new TSR in Germany.
berlinonaut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-18, 04:58 PM
  #62  
Jipe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Originally Posted by berlinonaut View Post
Yes, indeed. In fact I have two TSR, both bought used, with different steerer tube lengths. The shorter of the two is still in project state but it's steerer will be a perfect fit for an Airnimal Joey extender as it has been cut quite short some time in the past. The other one is set up as a tourer and has, as far as I can judge from comparing with other TSRs, not been cut or just minimally. Still it is too short. But clearly one can safe a lot of trouble and effort in that area when buying new. And buying used from the uk safes a hell of a lot of money in comparison to buying a new TSR in Germany.
Yes, buying new in UK or Switzerland also save money as the German Moulton importer has pretty high prices !
Jipe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-18, 08:47 PM
  #63  
BruceMetras
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Rafael, California
Posts: 2,052
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
There are also Stem Extenders ... add a Stem Shim and you're set..
BruceMetras is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-18, 02:47 AM
  #64  
berlinonaut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 452
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 204 Post(s)
Originally Posted by BruceMetras View Post
There are also Stem Extenders ... add a Stem Shim and you're set..
I tried those kind of extenders and did not like them due to the optics on the bike. Also the ones I tried were not perfectly regarding the height and heavy as hell. The shim is almost always necessary (forgot to mention this earlier) as the Moulton TSR uses an very old-fashioned 1" steerer, thus all modern ahead stems need some kind of shim to fit. Just another annoyance with the TSR.
berlinonaut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-18, 05:16 AM
  #65  
Jipe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
I do not know how high you want to go, but with the uncut fork+wishbone stem, it is already possible to go pretty high, the picture below is an example of that and it even if the stem is not placed at the top of the tube and if it doesn't use the longest version of the wishbone stem
Jipe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-18, 09:02 AM
  #66  
BruceMetras
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Rafael, California
Posts: 2,052
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Originally Posted by berlinonaut View Post
I tried those kind of extenders and did not like them due to the optics on the bike. Also the ones I tried were not perfectly regarding the height and heavy as hell. The shim is almost always necessary (forgot to mention this earlier) as the Moulton TSR uses an very old-fashioned 1" steerer, thus all modern ahead stems need some kind of shim to fit. Just another annoyance with the TSR.
There are also Titanium Stem Extenders lighter and prettier, but you would still need a stem shim as I linked above.

Faced with the same sort of problem on my TSR, I adapted a conventional quill stem which has worked out nicely.. I also lengthened the brake cable after I was done changing the handlebar height..

Before: with stock adjustable stem.



After: with my modification.

BruceMetras is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-18, 08:34 AM
  #67  
Jipe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Your new stem height is actually lower than the one of the uncut fork of the Jubilee 50 of the picture I posted.

So, for people buying new, the solution is to ask an uncut fork to their dealer, in the new wishbone stem leaflet, Moulton stated:
Threadless steering columns on new Moulton bicycles are supplied long, for the dealer to cut to suit the rider
Jipe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-18, 11:53 AM
  #68  
BruceMetras
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Rafael, California
Posts: 2,052
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
TSR's don't have long steerers as stock, uncut.. that is why there is interest in raising the handlebar by a variety of means if one wants a more upright position.. the first photo of my TSR-3 is a stock, uncut steerer with the stock adjustable riser as delivered from Moulton.. The Jubilee is a different bike.. my NS solves the handlebar issue with the aforementioned wishbone stem..

BruceMetras is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-18, 01:53 PM
  #69  
jur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 7,409
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Wait... Your NS?? Did you sell all your Alfas?
jur is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-18, 04:00 PM
  #70  
Jipe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
I do not know how long is the uncut tube of the fork on the TSR as delivered by Pashley, The longest tube I saw is below.

With a 170mm wishbone that can be mounted on the TSR (the ahead version), it should provide an upright enough position.

All other models, including the latest SST, have long fork tube.
Jipe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-18, 04:16 PM
  #71  
BruceMetras
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Rafael, California
Posts: 2,052
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Originally Posted by jur View Post
Wait... Your NS?? Did you sell all your Alfas?
I traded one of my accordions for it.. everyone was happy.. an NS Reynolds 531 is a nice bike .. I like this one as it is a single chainring by design..Goldtec hubs 10t bottom gear.. titanium seat post.. Lepper leather racing seat with Reynolds 531 rails.. Dura Ace everywhere .. original racks, fenders .. even has Zefal pump .. and yes, it was a very nice accordion..














Last edited by BruceMetras; 01-29-18 at 04:24 PM.
BruceMetras is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-18, 04:51 PM
  #72  
jur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 7,409
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Wow congrats!! We will need to catch up next time we visit. Nothing planned yet.
jur is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-18, 05:19 PM
  #73  
berlinonaut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 452
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 204 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
I do not know how long is the uncut tube of the fork on the TSR as delivered by Pashley, The longest tube I saw is below.

With a 170mm wishbone that can be mounted on the TSR (the ahead version), it should provide an upright enough position.

All other models, including the latest SST, have long fork tube.
The wishbone always is an option and a beautiful one, too. But prohibitively expensive, especially regarding the price of a TSR. Your picture shows about the maximum length a TSR steerer has. I am not at all sure if the SST offers more - I'd suspect it doesn't.

I really like the Ti-steering extenders Bruce linked to! Nice option.
berlinonaut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-18, 05:21 PM
  #74  
berlinonaut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 452
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 204 Post(s)
Originally Posted by BruceMetras View Post
There are also Titanium Stem Extenders lighter and prettier, but you would still need a stem shim as I linked above.
Nice find! Very interesting!
Originally Posted by BruceMetras View Post
Faced with the same sort of problem on my TSR, I adapted a conventional quill stem which has worked out nicely.. I also lengthened the brake cable after I was done changing the handlebar height..

Before: with stock adjustable stem.



After: with my modification.

How did you do that?
berlinonaut is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-18, 06:27 PM
  #75  
BruceMetras
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Rafael, California
Posts: 2,052
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Originally Posted by berlinonaut View Post

How did you do that?
I drilled the nuts you see on the steerer to accept 3 'set screws' each .. I used a stock TSR Aheadset preload bolt to preload the bearing stack, then tighten the set screws in both nuts to lock the tension.. then remove the Moulton preload bolt and insert the quill stem into the one inch steer tube at whatever height I wanted.. has worked fine over the past few years..
BruceMetras is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service