mangofly

Hi, I'm looking to buy my first folding bike, mainly for recreational riding in New York City as well as the occasional commute, taking on the subway, etc. I love the idea of having a Brompton because of its compact fold but I figure I ought to keep my budget down and get my feet wet first, as it were...

I was almost set on the Citizen Seoul until combing through these forums and hearing about Origami bikes. I'm very interested in the Gazelle. They are priced similarly; the Gazelle looks better spec'd (and also looks fantastic), but Citizen of course has been around a little longer and most folks seem happy with theirs.

In any case there's not a whole lot of info around about either bike in particular. Anyone in these forums have experience with these bikes? Also happy to take suggestions for similar bikes (20-inch wheels, under 30 lbs, 6-7 gears, around $400).

linberl

Check out Downtube as well.

ymatz

Did you look at this one?

3w formosastars com

tmesis

If you're open to used bikes, you can see some decent ones on craigslist. I picked up a Dahon Mu p8 for about $300. It's a great bike. Doesn't fold nearly as well as a Brompton, but rides much better.

Pinigis 

Mangofly,

I am the owner of Origami and I am happy to answer any questions you may have. You can contact me through our website, or through this forum.

Paul

mangofly

Thanks. Checked out their site and I'm intrigued by the Nova as well as some of the other models, though I'd need a rack and fenders. Do you own a Downtube?

mangofly

Open to it if I manage to find a good deal though I think I'd rather buy new.

mangofly

Appreciated! I'm very intrigued by your bikes. For starters, what's the gear range on the Gazelle? And other good reasons (aside from travel) to consider the Crane 8 instead?

linberl

I don't have a downtube (I have a Bike Friday) but I often see this guy I've come to know (from riding out on the local MUP) on his downtube. He had a Dahon that was old and broke on him so he bought a pretty red downtube - I think he has the one with suspension but not really sure. Anyway, he's had it since last summer and he's quite happy with it and puts a fair amount of daily mileage on it. Hope that helps.

There are quite a few threads on here about downtube bikes you can read, with comments from current owners. Also the owner is on this forum if you have questions.

zebede

Most used bikes for sale are "garage queens", especially folding bikes. I have owned at least a dozen over the years and ALL have been bought second hand. Typically you get twice as much bike for the money. I am a huge fan of buying used.

The down side is that you need to be able to determine the needs of the used bike and decide if it is within your skill set and budget.

unionmanbirch

I bought a Crane 8 this summer and have been happy with it. It is a very solid bike. Because it has an 11-34 cassette, it has a much wider gear range than most new folders in this price range. I haven't ridden one, but the Gazelle is listed as having a 14-28, so the Crane has both higher and lower gears. I have ridden my Crane up to 63 miles in a day hauling 40 lbs. of gear. The Crane uses a cassette rather than a freewheel so it would be easier upgrading the gearing down the road if you wish.

tdonline

Good advice. I think my Dahon D7 is 12-28 or 30 and I would love it if it went up to 34.

Pinigis 

Sorry that I am a bit late with a reply, but the Crane 8 has a 11 to 34T cassette, while the Gazelle and the Citizen Seoul both use a 14 to 28T Freewheel. The gear range on the Crane 8 is about 29 to 88 gear inches, while the Gazelle or Seoul offer about 35 to 70 gear inches.

The Crane 8 gives you a bit more hill-climbing ability and a bit more speed at the top end. Additionally, it uses a Cassette freehub while the Gazelle uses a freewheel.

The Gazelle comes with very nice disc brakes (they are very smooth and easy to modulate), color-matched saddle, fenders, and the rear rack standard. Additionally, the handlebar on the Gazelle and Crane 8 both rotate to position the brake levers for a more compact fold.

mangofly

Thanks all! Very good to know that someone is happy with a recent Crane. Most posts I've found on the forum are about the older models... I think this bike has become a serious contender for me. Figure I can afford to bump up my price range a little bit (~$450) for something with nicer components. I'll take maybe a couple more weeks to shop around (though the more I learn, the more my head hurts!), and also to see if any good deals pop up on Craigslist.

Bonzo Banana

Also worth considering the Euromini Urbano which has good quality components but rack and mudguards are extra.

https://www.euromini.bike/urbano-red

I would avoid freewheels not just for the limited gearing range but also strength and lifespan.

Pinigis 

The Urbano vs. Crane 8:

Urbano has nutted axles, the Crane 8 has quick releases front and rear
Urbano is made of 6061 aluminum, Crane 8 is 7005 aluminum
Urbano has a 48T generic chainring, the Crane 8 has a 52T Neco chainring
Urbano uses a Shimano Ultus derailleur, Crane 8 uses a Shimano Acera derailleur
Urbano uses a Shimano RevoShift, Crane 8 uses a MicroShift thumb shifter

The Crane 8 comes standard with steel fenders and an aluminum rack for $429. You can add plastic fenders and a steel rack to the Urbano and the price rises to $414.97. There is shipping of $29 on the Crane 8, but overall it offers a lot more for the money.

tds101 

Ok,...the Crane 8 does sound fantastic.

Pinigis 

We think so! They say that the devil is in the details, but the beauty resides there also.

downtube

Does the Urbano really use nutted axles? If so that is a serious problem.

Thanks,
Yan

Pinigis 

It appears so. This is copied from the specifications on their website:

FRONT HUB Machined Aluminum Alloy, Black Anodized 28h w/ nutted axle
REAR HUB Machined Aluminum Alloy; Black Anodized; Dust Sealed; 28h; 8/9 Speed cassette style w/ nutted axle

downtube

These people put a cassette on a bike with nutted axles...oh my.

Thanks,
Yan

Bonzo Banana

I think they copied that from another of their bikes. They show images and it looks to be quick releases on this bike. They have an image showing the detachable derailleur hanger with a completely non hexagonal end cap for the quick release. It's possible it's just a plastic cap but I don't think so. Not that there is anything wrong with solid axles. Some people prefer them for security on normal bikes but with a folding bike that's a mute point because you are always going to need quick releases for the seat post and handlebars so not much point about worrying about the quick releases on the wheels.

I thought 6061 was meant to be superior to 7005 as a generalisation. 6061 is more normally heat treated 'T6' which is less common and less beneficial for 7005. I don't think it really matters but would have 6061 if superior if any based on the fact it could be equal strength but less weight. It's a lighter bike with a higher weight capacity than the Crane.

The 48T chainring is very common. I have a very similar one on my Carrera Subway 8 which is a shimano nexus 8 bike of good quality. Definitely prefer to have 52 teeth although not sure there is a quality difference. The Crane has a steel chainring but the Urbano is aluminium. I actually prefer steel here but most high end bikes replace steel chainrings with aluminium. My vote would go with the Crane here for both reasons although some may prefer the Urbano. Lightness vs Lifespan?

Altus vs Acera is pretty much the same level of mountain bike derailleur between Tourney and Alivio. It would be hard to separate them in quality I would of thought but Acera would be a marginal step up. Although here reviews seem slightly better for Altus. I certainly wouldn't use this for a deciding factor. We aren't talking the difference between tourney and deore just a small difference. Interesting when you think about it that both folding bikes get their derailleurs from Shimano's mountain bike range of derailleurs. Maybe because of all the water and mud they have to put up with with such small wheels and short distance to the ground.

MTB Rear Derailleurs | Chain Reaction Cycles

Definitely a huge positive for the thumb shifter over Urbano revoshift for functionality although microshift is seen as a lower grade component supplier than Shimano. This wouldn't put me of the Urbano but I'd have to upgrade to something like this;

3x8 Speed Shift Lever Shifter Bike Bicycle Parts for Shimano Acera SL-M310

Again I would definitely consider the Urbano. It's great value with some very well selected components, has a lifetime warranty on the frame and the bike is very light. It's a great package for the price and definitely worthy of consideration. I personally wouldn't go for their mudguard and rack options as seem a little expensive but then it might be a competitive price in the US. Whatever you choose best of luck with your purchase, hope you enjoy it.

https://www.euromini.bike/specification-urbano-red

Pinigis 

I don't see any quick releases on their photos.
7005 series aluminum is lighter and stronger than 6061. Our listed weight includes the rack and fenders, the Urbano does not. I am willing to bet that the Crane 8 is lighter when compared comparably equipped.
The cranks, hub, and guard on the Crane 8 are aluminum, only the outer ring of teeth is steel for greater durability.
We chose to use the MicroShift gear selector instead of the Shimano because of its smooth action and precision. Since we are providing the warranty, I feel much better about the MicroShift component. We stick with Shimano selectors on our lower-cost models.

downtube

FYI the Urbano has a claimed weight of 24lbs, and it uses wide tires. I am certain that is not possible with their specs. Additionally, if they indeed used non-QR wheels their return rate would be through the roof.

Thanks,
Yan

Bonzo Banana

I've had another look and they are definitely quick releases. You can see the skewer/pin in the middle of the end cap. It's not easy though as there are no pictures of the other side of the bike showing the levers.

I just googled 7005 vs 6061 and the very first intro text that came up at the top stated 6061 is superior. Most of the budget dual suspension bikes you see in Walmart etc if not steel they are 7005 aluminium. I personally have no problem with 7005 aluminium but 6061 is generally regarded as superior.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=7005+vs+6061

Btwin tend to put microshift on their entry level bikes and SRAM and Shimano on higher end models. I have a microshift gear shifter on one of my bikes, its not bad but not quite as good as a similar Shimano trigger gear shifter but certainly better than their revoshift rubbish which I have a tendency to occasionally change gear by mistake. Although saying that I think the one I have most problems with is a SRAM rotary gear shifter which has an even lighter resistance action. The trouble is I have big hands so they end up drifting into the gear change side even when I'm just trying to grip the handlebars. I hate that system and much prefer the simple Shimano SIS rotary dial switches that came before them as their entry level shifter design. They are ok if you have small hands.