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Brompton drops lawsuit against Dahon

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Brompton drops lawsuit against Dahon

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Old 10-06-17, 05:05 PM
  #26  
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€900 seems a realistic price for the three-speed.

So I guess a Nexus 8-powered Curl could fetch around €1,200, making it competitive with Brompton… if you don't mind having to carry your stuff in a backpack or a tiny trunk bag.
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Old 10-07-17, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tds101 View Post
I really hope the pricing is more realistic. This bike was supposed to be what Brompton isn't,...and that's AFFORDABLE.
I never really saw it as attempting to be that. It seems more like a more fashionable bike using more trendy components. It hasn't really gone for long term reliability or strength in its design and with Dahon's frequent range refresh's may disappear again in a few years unless hugely popular. Early Brompton's are still going and still supported with parts etc. Long term ownership is likely to be cheaper overall with the Brompton. However if you don't need the extremely compact fold I'm sure there are other bikes that will offer much better long term value than either.
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Old 10-08-17, 04:15 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Bonzo Banana View Post
I never really saw it as attempting to be that. It seems more like a more fashionable bike using more trendy components. It hasn't really gone for long term reliability or strength in its design and with Dahon's frequent range refresh's may disappear again in a few years unless hugely popular. Early Brompton's are still going and still supported with parts etc. Long term ownership is likely to be cheaper overall with the Brompton. However if you don't need the extremely compact fold I'm sure there are other bikes that will offer much better long term value than either.
This was meant to be a competitor to the Brompton, and has been a topic of discussion on BF for years. We were under the impression that Dahon would make a lower cost, and well made (hopefully!) competing bike. I don't think this is even comparable to what a person will get with a Brommie. The frame will, most likely, not have the same longevity, this will go out of production, there's ton's of parts and upgrades for a Brommie now,...the Curl will be something Dahon needs to sell parts for. Plus, as noted, a Brompton retains value,...and the Curl will be a serious loss to whomever gets it.

And yes, there's quite a few small folding bikes that are available. But, there's only 1 Brompton. It's still one of, if not the most, compact folds on the market. Well worth the investment,...
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Old 10-09-17, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ThorUSA View Post
280 lbs
= 127kg

Thanks, Thor! Loving my Dahon Curl!
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Old 10-10-17, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by tds101 View Post
This was meant to be a competitor to the Brompton, and has been a topic of discussion on BF for years. We were under the impression that Dahon would make a lower cost, and well made (hopefully!) competing bike. I don't think this is even comparable to what a person will get with a Brommie. The frame will, most likely, not have the same longevity, this will go out of production, there's ton's of parts and upgrades for a Brommie now,...the Curl will be something Dahon needs to sell parts for. Plus, as noted, a Brompton retains value,...and the Curl will be a serious loss to whomever gets it.

And yes, there's quite a few small folding bikes that are available. But, there's only 1 Brompton. It's still one of, if not the most, compact folds on the market. Well worth the investment,...
And who wants to buy the copy when the original is available at almost the same price? I just added a new rear triangle to my 90`s Brompton to be able to use two sprockets at the back. I`d like to see that happening with any other folder (apart from maybe BF`s):
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Old 10-10-17, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by badmother View Post
And who wants to buy the copy when the original is available at almost the same price?

EXACTLY!!! I'll get a Brommie before I get a Curl. I'd upgrade the rear triangle to wider spacing, and go 8 or 11 speed IGH.
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Old 10-10-17, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Bonzo Banana View Post
Surely the Curl is the worst example of that. Some Dahon's have been low priced and those generic chinese folding bikes sourced through Dahon and branded under Ford have been reasonably priced even if more expensive than other companies selling the same bikes however Curl is very expensive, right in the same ballpark area of Brompton but still low cost production in the far east. Likely to be a hugely profitable bicycle.
With the understanding that folks can have different notions of what "hugely profitable" means, my rough understanding is that the savings is less than popularly believed. Especially for quality work. Moreover there is a difference between the average cost of a bike which includes the fixed costs of starting production.

I'm trying to remember the difference in price between a Merc and Brompton way back when. The Merc was a simple clone of an early Brompton (Mark 1?) following the Neobike episode. Brompton was producing their "new" model at the time. I imagine that start up costs were relatively small such that my first guess is that the price difference between the two represents something close to the maximum savings to moving production to China at the existing labor prices ... wages are quite a bit higher now.
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Old 10-10-17, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
€900 seems a realistic price for the three-speed.

So I guess a Nexus 8-powered Curl could fetch around €1,200, making it competitive with Brompton… if you don't mind having to carry your stuff in a backpack or a tiny trunk bag.
At this point in my life, I'm not really in the market. But I suspect that the second iteration of the Curl will be considerably better. Particularly when it comes to carrying stuff.
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Old 10-10-17, 02:26 PM
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Brompton management are a bunch of knobs .... I listed a vintage Raleigh folding bike on ebay, and stated that it folds as compact as a Brompton, and had my post removed on ebay because I used the word 'Brompton' in my advert .... bunch of cnuts
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Old 10-12-17, 03:19 AM
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Are Brompton and Dahon Curl affected by Kobe Steel scandal, faked data on strength and durability of its products?
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Old 10-12-17, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dim View Post
Brompton management are a bunch of knobs .... I listed a vintage Raleigh folding bike on ebay, and stated that it folds as compact as a Brompton, and had my post removed on ebay because I used the word 'Brompton' in my advert .... bunch of cnuts
If I owned a brand name and someone was falsely advertizing his used stuff with my brand name I would have it removed also. There are companies that do false advertizing searches on ebay that any time your brand name is used to sell someone else's product they notify ebay.

I have no relationship with Brompton.
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Old 10-12-17, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dim View Post
.... I listed a vintage Raleigh folding bike on ebay, ...
What model is the Raleigh? And what are its folded dimensions?

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Old 10-13-17, 07:15 PM
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There are no Raleighs - vintage or otherwise - that fold as compact as a Brompton. They busted you on eBay for making stuff up.
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Old 10-14-17, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Brompton_X View Post
The reason Brompton used trademark to sue Dahon Curl is because the look and feel seems like Dahon Curl copied from Brompton....


.
That's the sort of thing that Design Patents are meant to protect, not trademarks.
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Old 10-14-17, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
That's the sort of thing that Design Patents are meant to protect, not trademarks.
Well, a design patent in the USA. Andrew Ritchie said Brompton no longer had any IP protection for their 1977 patented bicycle design under UK law by 2004, when they successfully sued Neobike and their dimensional copy of the Brompton for trademark violation in Dutch courts under Dutch law.

As we've seen, in August of this year Brompton requested an injunction in EU courts against the Dahon Curl for either copyright or trademark violation - news accounts don't agree. Whatever claim they were trying to make, it didn't work out so well for them.
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Old 10-14-17, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by gataddhin View Post
Are Brompton and Dahon Curl affected by Kobe Steel scandal, faked data on strength and durability of its products?
There's very little steel in a Curl.

Doesn't the iron for Bromptons come from Weald Siderite?
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Old 10-14-17, 12:49 PM
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Saw Pictures of an aluminum frame close Knock off, the Flamingo was it? turned out to be a Flaming No,

as the QC was slack & the aluminum fatigued faster..
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Old 10-14-17, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dim View Post
Brompton management are a bunch of knobs .... I listed a vintage Raleigh folding bike on ebay, and stated that it folds as compact as a Brompton, and had my post removed on ebay because I used the word 'Brompton' in my advert .... bunch of cnuts
They were ridiculous with my Merc sale on ebay. My advert got pulled three times due to me describing it have having Brompton tyres and frame clip.
Apparently I couldnt call the rear frame a Brompton rear frame clip as it was not fitted to a Brompton.......
The level of email harrassment and bullying was simply stunning
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Old 10-14-17, 03:13 PM
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Funny. A lot of stuff is sold claiming to be "for Brompton" or "similar to Brompton" on Ebay and all over the net these days, especially all the third party parts made for B. IF they were to go after all of them they would not have any time left to make bikes

I actally think lots of the cool parts awailable help them sell bikes..
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Old 10-15-17, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by badmother View Post
Funny. A lot of stuff is sold claiming to be "for Brompton" or "similar to Brompton" on Ebay and all over the net these days, especially all the third party parts made for B.
The custom t-shirt and clothing websites, like Zazzle, Redbubble and CafePress, offer wearables featuring Brompton graphics and logos lifted straight off the company's publications. That really is a violation of copyright/trademark.
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Old 10-15-17, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs View Post
There's very little steel in a Curl.
Kobe Steel - despite it's name - does aluminium, too.

It sold products that failed quality control tests to about 500 companies. Worse still, it did so not in error but by falsifying data to make it appear that items had made the grade. (...) The admissions have dribbled out, and more may follow. Initially, the company confessed to falsifying data about the strength and durability of some copper and aluminum that was used in cars and trains and possibly planes and a space rocket, too. Then Kobe Steel said it also faked data about iron ore powder and materials used in DVDs and LCD screens. Chief Executive Officer Hiroya Kawasaki said on Oct. 12 more cases could emerge as the company continues its investigations. A day later it flagged misconduct related to more items including steel wire and copper piping, some of which were produced overseas.(...) The fabrication of data relating to aluminum was found at all four of Kobe Steel’s local plants in conduct the company described as “systematic.” For some items, the practice dated back some 10 years, according to Kobe Steel Executive Vice President Naoto Umehara.
Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...e-q-a-j8pto39q
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Old 10-15-17, 08:13 AM
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The New York Times:

"On Wednesday, Kobe Steel added two more products to the list of affected materials: powdered steel, which is used to create molded steel products like gears.."

Curl's Shimano Nexus hub and Brompton's Sturmey-Archer hub could be affected???
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Old 10-15-17, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by tds101 View Post
This was meant to be a competitor to the Brompton, and has been a topic of discussion on BF for years. We were under the impression that Dahon would make a lower cost, and well made (hopefully!) competing bike. I don't think this is even comparable to what a person will get with a Brommie. The frame will, most likely, not have the same longevity, this will go out of production, there's ton's of parts and upgrades for a Brommie now,...the Curl will be something Dahon needs to sell parts for. Plus, as noted, a Brompton retains value,...and the Curl will be a serious loss to whomever gets it.

And yes, there's quite a few small folding bikes that are available. But, there's only 1 Brompton. It's still one of, if not the most, compact folds on the market. Well worth the investment,...
You mean the aluminum frame of the Curl will not have the same longevity as with the steel-framed Brompton?
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Old 10-15-17, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by gataddhin View Post
Curl's Shimano Nexus hub and Brompton's Sturmey-Archer hub could be affected???
FWIW, the current Curl i3 uses a SRAM three speed hub.
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Old 10-15-17, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by foldingdroid View Post
You mean the aluminum frame of the Curl will not have the same longevity as with the steel-framed Brompton?
We have some amateur metallurgists here on the Folding Bike list that have stated as much.

Amazingly enough, we're not the first cyclists to ponder this. Here's a German fatigue life study of bicycle frames manufactured from various materials:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/...tigue_test.htm

If anyone has tested Dahon Curl and Brompton frames in a one-to-one comparison, I encourage them to bring the test results forward. In the meantime, it would seem that it's not really very much the material you make a bicycle frame from and a whole lot the way you design with that material.


(In addition, Dahon gives the Curl a higher load bearing limit than Brompton allows for their bike. So there's that.)
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