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Pakit people (and others) please check my thinking...

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Pakit people (and others) please check my thinking...

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Old 10-25-17, 09:22 PM
  #51  
Joe Remi
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I owned an NWT for a while. Great bike, it just didn't fold easily enough for my needs so I sold it and bought a Brompton. I think they're both cool companies and I'd love to have a BF Haul-A-Day with e-kit one of these days.
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Old 10-26-17, 10:03 PM
  #52  
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Hi linberl,

Here are some photos of my PakiT, as well as impressions that will hopefully answer some of your questions . The bike is stock, with Alfine 8 IGH and Gates belt. The handlebar is at saddle height. Because I intend to use it as a commuting bike, I ordered fenders (made by Planet Bike), and a lug compatible with the Brompton carrier block (more on this in a bit). Tires are Schwalbe Kojak, pedals are made of plastic and look cheap, and the WTB Volt Comp saddle is a bit uncomfortable for rides longer than 4-5 miles.

When the bike is folded, the pin on the handlebar inserts into a hole in the frame. The pin itself is attached to a ring that wraps around the stem. When inserted into the frame, a spring-loaded ball bearing keeps it secure. In my case, however, the pin that was shipped out with my bike was too short. The ball bearing didn't lock, and the handlebar readily fell loose from the frame. I contacted BF and received a replacement within several days.

https://imgur.com/DOX9VsR
https://imgur.com/NnKPByX
https://imgur.com/UUvpkal

Here is a close-up of the weld:
https://imgur.com/xyN9Glw

I've watched a video clip of someone rolling the PakiT. At least on my particular bike, I would find it a challenge. In order to roll the bike at all, the front wheel must be placed at an angle with respect to the rear wheel. The nut from the rear wheel otherwise locks up in the front wheel's spokes.
https://imgur.com/NyUVlRw
https://imgur.com/vLQWFfD


The lug for the Brompton carrier block is also part of a ring around the handlebar post. It is below the pin mentioned above. haven't installed the block yet, but it seems impractical to have the luggage weight rotate with the handlebar. Moreover, there isn't enough space up front for both the pin and a bag, as the pin would press into it and possibly tear a hole.
https://imgur.com/at0xgtg

Folded, the bike can be lifted without collapsing. When the seat post is pushed down, it locks up with the extension from the rear triangle. Even if the kickstand could accommodate small wheels, I don't think it would be able to roll with the slanted front wheel.
https://imgur.com/HnlXqEx

I live in an urban area and purchased this bike for multimodal commuting. I opted for the IGH to avoid having a greasy chain on crowded subway trains and buses. I bought a 3-speed Brompton earlier this year, and found rides longer than 5 miles rather difficult, especially when negotiating hills. It has its charms, but for me, a 12 mile commute on that Brompton is out of the question. That's why I jumped on the PakiT when you posted the discount code. So thanks again for that. Even with the discount, it cost more than I'd imagined spending on a bike, but this will be my only bike (my wife having taken over the Brompton), and I'm hoping to get many years of good use out of it. The PakiT addresses some of the shortcomings of the Brompton, including weight, speed, and gearing. I still haven't come up with a great solution for transporting luggage, since I need to pack my laptop and a few things for my commute. The rep at BF suggested a saddle bag, but I'm not keen to purchase any more bags, as I already have a Brompton T-bag and Ortlieb panniers.
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Last edited by tmesis; 10-27-17 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 10-26-17, 10:44 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by tmesis View Post
Hi linberl,

Here are some photos of my PakiT, as well as impressions that will hopefully answer some of your questions . The bike is stock, with Alfine 8 IGH and Gates belt. The handlebar is at saddle height. Because I intend to use it as a commuting bike, I ordered fenders (made by Planet Bike), and a lug compatible with the Brompton carrier block (more on this in a bit). Tires are Schwalbe Kojak, pedals are made of plastic and look cheap, and the WTB Volt Comp saddle is a bit uncomfortable for rides longer than 4-5 miles.

When the bike is folded, the pin on the handlebar inserts into a hole in the frame. The pin itself is attached to a ring that wraps around the stem. When inserted into the frame, a spring-loaded ball bearing keeps it secure. In my case, however, the pin that was shipped out with my bike was too short. The ball bearing didn't lock, and the handlebar readily fell loose from the frame. I contacted BF and received a replacement within several days.

https://imgur.com/DOX9VsR
https://imgur.com/NnKPByX
https://imgur.com/UUvpkal

Here is a close-up of the weld:
https://imgur.com/xyN9Glw

I've watched a video clip of someone rolling the PakiT. At least on my particular bike, I would find it a challenge. In order to roll the bike at all, the front wheel must be placed at an angle with respect to the rear wheel. The nut from the rear wheel otherwise locks up in the front wheel's spokes.
https://imgur.com/NyUVlRw
https://imgur.com/vLQWFfD


The lug for the Brompton carrier block is also part of a ring around the handlebar post. It is below the pin mentioned above. haven't installed the block yet, but it seems impractical to have the luggage weight rotate with the handlebar. Moreover, there isn't enough space up front for both the pin and a bag, as the pin would press into it and possibly tear a hole.
https://imgur.com/at0xgtg

Folded, the bike can be lifted without collapsing. When the seat post is pushed down, it locks up with the extension from the rear triangle. Even if the kickstand could accommodate small wheels, I don't think it would be able to roll with the slanted front wheel.
https://imgur.com/HnlXqEx

I live in an urban area and purchased this bike for multimodal commuting. I opted for the IGH to avoid having a greasy chain on crowded subway trains and buses. I bought a 3-speed Brompton earlier this year, and found rides longer than 5 miles rather difficult, especially when negotiating hills. It has its charms, but for me, a 12 mile commute on that Brompton is out of the question. That's why I jumped on the PakiT when you posted the discount code. So thanks again for that. Even with the discount, it cost more than I'd imagined spending on a bike, but this will be my only bike (my wife having taken over the Brompton), and I'm hoping to get many years of good use out of it. The PakiT addresses some of the shortcomings of the Brompton, including weight, speed, and gearing. I still haven't come up with a great solution for transporting luggage, since I need to pack my laptop and a few things for my commute. The rep at BF suggested a saddle bag, but I'm not keen to purchase any more bags, as I already have a Brompton T-bag and Ortlieb panniers.
Hi
Thanks for all the info - glad you got to use the coupon! I don't know if the chain drive will allow the front wheel to avoid the rear hub for rolling, will have to wait and see. My idea of rollers on the kickstand is to tilt the bike back toward me so both tires are fully off the ground, again I'll have to wait and see how that works. As a precaution, I'm going to get the "Off Yer Bike" handle and strap which would at least let me carry the bike hands-free. My build will come in at almost exactly 19lbs with saddle and pedals, which is 8 lbs lighter than my NWT. While I can schlep the NWT, it isn't fun but drop 8 pounds and I think I will feel like Superwoman!

For cargo I am getting a Burley Travoy. With the accessory straps you can buy for the Travoy, I should be able to pop the quick folded bike onto the upper part of the Travoy and be able to put my shopping or whatever in the bottom bag, and then take the bike down and attach the trailer to ride. I only need the kickstand wheel solution/carry strap for when I haven't taken the travoy. If you are interested in a Travoy - here's a tip on how to get one for $100 new: sign up for REI Mastercard, buy something small with the card, you'll get a $100 REI gift card in the mail within a couple weeks. Wait for the REI members 20% off coupon that comes out near the end of November (it works on the Travoy) and use your gift card. $100+tax for a new Travoy. If it doesn't work out like I'm planning, I can sell it for twice what I paid for it so there's no risk. BTW, the Travoy has a bag available that holds a laptop and other "work" stuff that attaches to the trailer. Reviews I've read indicate people don't even notice it when they ride with it so I have high hopes - might work for you as well (pop the bike on, roll into work, fold trailer and set folded bike next to it).

I will be sending BF my own handlebars (Nitto allrounders) because they said they need to set the pin in a different place for my bars, so hopefully they will notice if the pin is not right. I'm also going to put my own pedals on it (gripkings) and my own saddle (currently a Brooks but for Xmas I'm getting a titanium Terry which weighs half as much).

I totally get the Brompton thing as I didn't find the stock versions comfortable at all plus I do like to buy American made when I can. I'm probably going to take Jur's suggestion and wax my chain - if not, I have a camelback raincover that stretches and zipcord locks that I am sure will go over the chainring and back to cover the rear der if I'm in close situations.

After years or putting things ON my bike like racks, toolbags, waterbottles, etc., I finally decide to start using a sling bag and not having to take everything off the bike every time I stop is just wonderful. It also makes it easier for carrying with the sling bag weight (not noticeable at all while riding) on my left side and the bike on the right (plus my friction motor/batteries will fit in my sling bag when I don't deploy it.

I'm a little concerned about flats with the Kojaks - there's so much glass everywhere I ride but they're so light I'm willing to at least try them - you didn't say anything about flats, so that's a good sign.

Not sure what I'm doing wrong but I get an error when I try to look at your links....pics working now, thanks. Not impressed with that weld, the welds on my NWT are much neater :-(.

Thanks for the great info =)
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Last edited by linberl; 10-27-17 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 10-27-17, 12:08 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by tmesis View Post
Hi linberl,


I've watched a video clip of someone rolling the PakiT. At least on my particular bike, I would find it a challenge. In order to roll the bike at all, the front wheel must be placed at an angle with respect to the rear wheel. The nut from the rear wheel otherwise locks up in the front wheel's spokes.
How much of a burden is it to carry the bike around?
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Old 10-27-17, 12:52 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by tdonline View Post
How much of a burden is it to carry the bike around?
A lot if you're moving any reasonable distance with luggage. The Pakit at 19 lbs. is going to be easy to toss onto a bus or train, but once you add luggage and walking between locations, the whole bundle becomes unweildy quite quickly.

It sounds like Linberl has the equation handled with the Travoy, but I'm a little underwhelmed that BF didn't attempt match Brompton's ability to roll with a big bag attached. The idea with Pakit is to ride to a spot, then disassemble and stuff in a backpack, but where's the stuff-carrying capacity?
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Old 10-27-17, 01:09 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
A lot if you're moving any reasonable distance with luggage. The Pakit at 19 lbs. is going to be easy to toss onto a bus or train, but once you add luggage and walking between locations, the whole bundle becomes unweildy quite quickly.

It sounds like Linberl has the equation handled with the Travoy, but I'm a little underwhelmed that BF didn't attempt match Brompton's ability to roll with a big bag attached. The idea with Pakit is to ride to a spot, then disassemble and stuff in a backpack, but where's the stuff-carrying capacity?
Well, you can get the brompton fitting but since it moves with the bars it might not be great. Also there is a Kanga/Vario rack by klickfix which would work. And there are handlebar bags that go on with velcro. Where I live, most of the commuter riders do wear backpacks. Some drop their backpacks into a basket on the bike, though. What could work really well, if one's seat is high enough, is Jur's pipe-through-seatrails concept to stow a backpack. Minimal weight, easy removal. cheap. Given how simple it is and how cheaply it can be done, I might rig one up just to have it.
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Old 10-27-17, 01:11 PM
  #57  
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Well, we focused on the stuff carrying issue from the beginning of the kickstarter campaign. And it seems BF still quite haven't offered an elegant solution. A saddlebag to carry a laptop?? The fenders and rack photos on the official site look really awful too. And it's a pity because the Pakit itself has grown on me aesthetically.

Linberl's plans to use a Travoy to double as carrying for both luggage and the Pakit is very sensible. But from my POV, it's also another thing to buy and haul around. Kinda defeats the purpose of lollying around with a super light bike.
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Old 10-27-17, 01:22 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by tdonline View Post
Well, we focused on the stuff carrying issue from the beginning of the kickstarter campaign. And it seems BF still quite haven't offered an elegant solution. A saddlebag to carry a laptop?? The fenders and rack photos on the official site look really awful too. And it's a pity because the Pakit itself has grown on me aesthetically.

Linberl's plans to use a Travoy to double as carrying for both luggage and the Pakit is very sensible. But from my POV, it's also another thing to buy and haul around. Kinda defeats the purpose of lollying around with a super light bike.
I don't suppose I'm typical but I ride for two reasons: one is pure exercise and the other transport/errands. For exercise, I don't want or need any carrying capacity, the lighter the bike the better. If I do stop somewhere, I think the carry strap will suffice. For errands, it's the travoy.

If I needed to commute on it, I'd get someone to help me mount the Nitto brompton rear rack on it (the wheels wouldn't be in the right position so I'd take them off). It's a lot sturdier than the pakiT rack. Strap a backpack on it or get a trunk bag. Or, if you're not carrying a lot of weight, there's the Arkel trail rider and seatpost rack setup.

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Old 10-27-17, 02:09 PM
  #59  
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The Pakit is ideal for my ultra light solution for carrying anything from a saddle bag to the largest pannier on the saddle rails. On the rear there's also no extra wind drag from a pannier since it is behind the rider.
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Old 10-27-17, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jur View Post
The Pakit is ideal for my ultra light solution for carrying anything from a saddle bag to the largest pannier on the saddle rails. On the rear there's also no extra wind drag from a pannier since it is behind the rider.
That's exactly what I ended up doing.

As can be seen, there was some room for the carrier block lug to go down, but not enough for the bag to accommodate the pin, even if I were to move up the pin.

So I made a run to the hardware store earlier today and fashioned a rod for the pannier! I took the metal pipe and used the hacksaw at the store to cut it to the desired size, then placed washers, nuts, and rubber ends on it. And to prevent heel strike, I use a bungee cord.

The whole thing cost about 6 USD, and I love the minimalism. Thanks, jur!
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Old 10-27-17, 02:57 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by tmesis View Post
That's exactly what I ended up doing.

As can be seen, there was some room for the carrier block lug to go down, but not enough for the bag to accommodate the pin, even if I were to move up the pin.

So I made a run to the hardware store earlier today and fashioned a rod for the pannier! I took the metal pipe and used the hacksaw at the store to cut it to the desired size, then placed washers, nuts, and rubber ends on it. And to prevent heel strike, I use a bungee cord.

The whole thing cost about 6 USD, and I love the minimalism. Thanks, jur!
So I can see where it won't shift left to right or reverse because of the washers, but what are you using to keep it from shifting forward on the rails? Is it just the tension of the washer against the rails?

Hehe, now I'm wondering if I can find a way to hang the folded Travoy on it...then I wouldn't have to tow it unladen to the store and could just unfold at the store to roll in with bike and return home with groceries =). Folded trailer is 21'x18'' so should fit.

Jur needs to market a sexy prefab version of this!!!

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Old 10-27-17, 04:02 PM
  #62  
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Doesn't the steel rod rub against the saddle railings? And yes, it doesn't move forward/backward?
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Old 10-27-17, 04:14 PM
  #63  
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Could probably buy some rubber tubing to slip over it which would save the rails and maybe minimize fore/aft movement? Or plastidip it? Make it less utilitarian looking, too.
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Old 10-27-17, 04:20 PM
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I have an extra set of zip ties through the Brooks bag loops to prevent fore aft movement.
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Old 10-27-17, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jur View Post
I have an extra set of zip ties through the Brooks bag loops to prevent fore aft movement.
Duh. Simple. Never would have thought of it, lol. Thank you.
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Old 10-28-17, 10:45 AM
  #66  
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Looking at it's height*, that seems Ideal for the Mini O bag, made for Brompton by Ortlieb is their handlebar bag.. with the Brompton clip mount..

Having the load on the fork is fine in low mounted panniers, I got a front double pannier rack on my BiFri,
low trail handling is steadied with weight on the front wheel. over , Like Brompton, or on either side with, a pannier rack.



...





* https://www.bikeforums.net/attachmen...1&d=1509136523
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Old 10-30-17, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by tdonline View Post
Doesn't the steel rod rub against the saddle railings? And yes, it doesn't move forward/backward?
It does rub against the railings, and does sway a bit, but not enough to be a true impediment. I've also found that my rear brushes up against it lightly. So it's not quite an ideal solution, but the best one that I've come across for my situation. I'm curious whether the metal rod scratching up against the railings can cause them to fail down the road.
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Old 10-31-17, 09:08 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by tmesis View Post
The lug for the Brompton carrier block is also part of a ring around the handlebar post. It is below the pin mentioned above. haven't installed the block yet, but it seems impractical to have the luggage weight rotate with the handlebar. Moreover, there isn't enough space up front for both the pin and a bag, as the pin would press into it and possibly tear a hole.
There are a bunch of folks that believe putting the weight directly on the frame rather than on the fork makes handling worse. I'd test it out before dismissing the idea.

(for clarity, you have not dismissed the idea)
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Old 10-31-17, 10:42 AM
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It works fine on my Actual Brompton, the weight helps..

But Brompton uses a brake with the cable pulling from beneath, with a standard pull from above side pull that option is not available..

it would interfere with a head tube mounted block and the brake cable , not allowing full wheel swing..


...

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Old 10-31-17, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
the frame on Brompton, now, are rather long, It's like a virtual 24" top tube, But typically people set the saddle fairly forward,
(Their SAP gets it even closer)

It does after all have the seat post passing behind the BB , not directly above/into it like regular bikes..

then the M bar gets adjusted to be a little closer to you ,

I suspect you did not even try to adjust it that little bit , but I was not there to watch..




.....
I went to a different Brompton dealer today just to double check if they could make it work. Turns out there is a 9cm difference in the distance on my bike from mid-seat to stem compared to the "s" model brompton which is the only one that puts me in the right riding position. They had a seat clip thingy that moves the seat forward but it has to go almost all the way forward to get me close enough and then my KOP position is horrible, and my knees are crappy enough as they are so I don't wanna make them worse. I could live with the 170mm cranks although mine are 165mm and that's better, but the cute little brompton is definitely not made for people with "t-rex" arms :-(. Dang, the little bugger is cute, though.
On the bright side, the 16" wheels are not a lot worse than 20" in terms of ride quality because I can still press on the pedals or stand when it's rough.
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Old 11-03-17, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by badmother View Post
Just admit ou want one. It is keeping you awake at night is`nt it?
I would like one - but it just won't fit me :-(. I admit I like the more classic round lines than the more speedster lines of the pakiT. But there is no easy way to move me forward nearly 10cm without changing the knee position for the worse. If stupid brompton just made frames in 3 sizes, I could get a small frame. Grrrr.....
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Old 11-03-17, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by badmother View Post
Maybe I need to adjust my head but I can not help thinking you should be able to rotate M bars (or maybe also P bars) backwards enough to meet up with your hands where you need them to meet. This would include a quick release on top of the stem and one more quick release to deal with when folding than the rest of us but on a Dahon it would be the same so not a big deal. I`ll take a look at mine tomorrow, rotate the bars and take a picture. What is your inseam? I can adjust the seat to the right height before taking the photo to make it more real life.

I can take the pictures oudoors so you can see the snow that arrived approx 14 days ago (since you recently asked if I lived in Vegas ).
The shop tried that...we are talking about a 10cm difference (it was 9.87). And I ride in an aggressive position so the S bars are the only ones close to the right height. On my NWT, my bars are 2.5" below my saddle. So rotating the bars back on M, H, or P bars puts me too much upright. I've got some disc issues and in my case, being bent is what helps to open space between the discs; I know, most people with back problems like to be upright. I asked if I could put my Nitto allrounders on (like a smaller north roads) and they said it wouldn't work, it would screw up the fold and the cables and some other thing I can't recall. Because low north roads are the only way I think it could work for me. At some point, it is just too much trouble and too much after-market fiddling/cost.

But I'd love to see the snow pics!!!
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Old 11-04-17, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
The shop tried that...we are talking about a 10cm difference (it was 9.87). And I ride in an aggressive position so the S bars are the only ones close to the right height. On my NWT, my bars are 2.5" below my saddle. So rotating the bars back on M, H, or P bars puts me too much upright. I've got some disc issues and in my case, being bent is what helps to open space between the discs; I know, most people with back problems like to be upright. I asked if I could put my Nitto allrounders on (like a smaller north roads) and they said it wouldn't work, it would screw up the fold and the cables and some other thing I can't recall. Because low north roads are the only way I think it could work for me. At some point, it is just too much trouble and too much after-market fiddling/cost.

But I'd love to see the snow pics!!!
Ok, that is a pity. I bet the bars you talk about could work but I understand the shop saying "no" becouse testing it out would be expensive (hours of work) and who is going to pay for that? Peopel have put road bars on Bromptons. They mess up the fold a bit but it works if you know how to handle it for sure.

Sounds like you could benefit from a lower stem.
I have a M stem I was stupid enough to cut the top off to make it longer. What you need is somebody to cut approx 10 cms of that one and weld it back on again- maybe.

Also I have been thinking some times about putting a different stem on Bromptons. It is a quill stem so easy peasy. Just need to take a close look on a folded Brompton to find out if a shorter straight (B stems are bent away from the rider to give more reach) quill stem can be fitted. They are as common as empty bottles on Ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Folding-Bik...rMGpNAL9rwbTLQ

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FOLDING-BIK...QAAOSwx2dYJW5M

The last one is for 1" but you get the idea.

You`ll get your snow picture soon

Did you look into other folders? I understand your "steel is real" thinking but I keep thinking altough I like the packiT i do not think I want to fold it six times a day!

Did you look at the Dahon Curve? thor used to sell a swept bar some yers ago. He must have been thinking it should be for use on the bikes he sold. Adjustable height stem, quick release on top of stem for rotating bars. Not at all impossible to roll folded. Almost as small as a B.

What about keeping an eye on CL and look for a used Tikit? BF used to adjust them for little peopel did they not?

That BF bike with the adjustable top tube is an option too, could get it as short as you want (TT). I do not know about weight or folding but like on other bikes light wheels, crank, pedal, seatpost bars and bolts can be bought in lighter materials. Since you need a shorter TT, could some of the TT that you do not need be cut off? Just thinking out loud here.
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Old 11-04-17, 04:43 AM
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Peopel put road bars and bull horns on bromptons all the time so why not swept bars? I understand that a shop do not want to do it but I would ask around. They made rcumbents out of Bromptons so what you need is far from impossible IMHO. The B would give you several options for racks with wheels to roll it.

https://www.google.no/search?q=bromp...h=500&dpr=1.38


EDIT:
Brompton with bull horns. Rotated to give a good fold. Give me just one good reason they can not be installed the oposite way, pointing towards the rider instead of away from the rider??? Sorry, does not make sense. Just find somebody who know what they are talking about, somebody brave enough to do it. Or do it yourself!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bromptonia/6290596779/


EDIT ":

"Brompton" with straight stem. I think he built this bike from scratch in TI but it is a copy of a B. Maybe he could build you a straight stem (and he could do it in TI for less weight) or he could modify the B stem.. i bet he would not need to have the bike with him to do it (just the stem) or the bike could be bought close to where he lives (if possible) and then shipped to you after it is finished.

https://ufbusa.ishopserver.com/Homepage.html

Last edited by badmother; 11-04-17 at 05:11 AM.
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Old 11-04-17, 08:03 AM
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Badmother, I have the same reach problem with the Brompton and had similar experiences with test rides. Even the short rides were hurting my wrists and shoulders. The store salespeople reacted to my request to adjust the brakes and handlebar as if I was asking for their firstborn. But they did relent. Well, yes, adjustments can be made to accommodate my reach issues, but compromised the world famous Brompton fold. What's the point if you're not going to get that compact fold? Add the weight and I decided to move on.
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