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Old 11-05-17, 05:23 AM   #101
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Hmmmm....have you ever done it? All I can say is when I switched from straight bars to north roads the steering was a LOT more twitchy. I got used to it eventually as it eliminated some pains I had. I can't imagine what a backwards stem would do, especially out of the saddle. As for the brompton, I don't want one enough to go through all these hoops to make it work...sort of. For me, that's the one critical flaw with the brompton - it's one size fits all, or doesn't. I just can't justify spending 2 grand on a bike that ends up looking like a franken burger.
Here's what it would more or less look like. I have an H-model Bromton with an S-bar fitted to a riser (neither Aber Hallo nor Andros, but comparable) to gain a little bit more height as I am reasonably tall and the S is too low for me. As it is just two screws I just tilted it the way you would possibly have to to get less reach. Looks unusual but not awkward and definitively not like a franken burger.


















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Old 11-05-17, 09:58 AM   #102
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Lol, okay to clarify -- in terms of pure "looks" I want a brompton. However, when I'm dropping 2 grand for a bike I do not expect to jump through hoops to then "make do" with the fit, at extra cost, with no guarantee. If I was buying a traditional road bike for 2k, I would expect that bike to fit me well before I went out the door and if it did not, I would keep looking. It's expected that a road bike dealer in that price range will have stems/posts, etc. and be able to make appropriate changes to the bike.

Just because the Brompton has a terrific fold does not, imo, excuse it from the same requirement. Looks and fold aside, it seems to me that the Brompton community has grown and developed all kinds of alternatives...to make up for a bike that is less than ideal. Brompton and their dealers can make very few modifications for fit. They leave it to their customers to alter the bike to make it work for them if the single frame size doesn't work. And those modifications just add weight, too.

While I do not love the looks of the pakiT (because I prefer rounded lines, classic styling), I know I can drop 2k on a Bike Friday and I will not need to do anything after-market in terms of fit. Any after market purchases will be just for bling =). In my mind, anyway, that's the way a bike should be. And fit beats fold and looks every day.

The only way I would commit my $ to a Brompton was if I could ride it with the modifications before I buy. And that's obviously not going to happen. It just doesn't make any sense to me to buy a bike that doesn't fit. That's just me.... so appreciate the looks of the Brompton I will, but ride a Bike Friday I must =).

Now, if I ride the pakiT on tuesday and for some reason decide I don't like it -- sheesh. Not sure what I would do. I could drop a bundle on my NWT and make it super light but I would never be able to lock it up without fear of it getting stripped. I guess I'd probably just wait for something else to come on the market :-(.

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Old 11-05-17, 01:23 PM   #103
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Linberl, there's always the Helix!

Oh wait...

My mechanical knowledge of bikes is disgracefully small so this may be a pretty terrible suggestion. If I understand correctly, a lightweight bike is of great importance for you. As it is for me. How about the Solorock Spin 3 (or something in the same vein)? It's around $500 and you upgrade the bike with the remaining grand? The bike is 21 pounds with rack and fenders.
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Old 11-05-17, 01:54 PM   #104
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Linberl, there's always the Helix!

Oh wait...

My mechanical knowledge of bikes is disgracefully small so this may be a pretty terrible suggestion. If I understand correctly, a lightweight bike is of great importance for you. As it is for me. How about the Solorock Spin 3 (or something in the same vein)? It's around $500 and you upgrade the bike with the remaining grand? The bike is 21 pounds with rack and fenders.
Lol, the helix is a 24" wheel, anyway. The solorock is fine but I can get the pakiT under 19lb with saddle/pedals. Don't need/want racks as I will have a travoy. And I don't have to screw around with upgrading; they'll configure as I wish. I don't think there is another steel 16" bike out there that would be lighter except maybe the hummingbird, at that is just plain ridiculous in terms of cost (not sure it's 16" anyway).
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Old 11-05-17, 03:17 PM   #105
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Lol, okay to clarify -- in terms of pure "looks" I want a brompton. However, when I'm dropping 2 grand for a bike I do not expect to jump through hoops to then "make do" with the fit, at extra cost, with no guarantee. If I was buying a traditional road bike for 2k, I would expect that bike to fit me well before I went out the door and if it did not, I would keep looking. It's expected that a road bike dealer in that price range will have stems/posts, etc. and be able to make appropriate changes to the bike.
Well - Brompton has four different stems and three different posts with at least one of the combinations fitting most riders. This choice may not be sufficient for every given rider but it is more than many other bikes offer, even in that price range. Most stock bikes you have to customize in one way or another it is always on your own risc and cost.

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Looks and fold aside, it seems to me that the Brompton community has grown and developed all kinds of alternatives...to make up for a bike that is less than ideal. Brompton and their dealers can make very few modifications for fit. They leave it to their customers to alter the bike to make it work for them if the single frame size doesn't work. And those modifications just add weight, too.
Well no bike is "ideal" and your needs seem to be very special, at least in terms of reach. A good dealer will no doubt do customize the bike for you, even a Brompton. I know a couple of dealers in Germany that are willing to do this if you demand it and at least one that offers it when appropriate for your body-size and -shape before you demand it. Still the Brompton is a bike that comes as a complete bike from the factory, so it is understandable that modifications by dealers are a bit limited, as some of them may influence the warranty and - as the Brompton is a tiny but complex beast - many dealers lack knowledge. Plus many of the accessories come from Asia and the longterm-quality is as unknown as if they have been constructed, manufactured and tested to modern western (legal) standards, therefor dealers are not keen on building these onto customers bikes.
It may however be the case that you have a lack of good and competent dealers in your area - can't judge on that.


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While I do not love the looks of the pakiT (because I prefer rounded lines, classic styling), I know I can drop 2k on a Bike Friday and I will not need to do anything after-market in terms of fit. Any after market purchases will be just for bling =). In my mind, anyway, that's the way a bike should be. And fit beats fold and looks every day.

The only way I would commit my $ to a Brompton was if I could ride it with the modifications before I buy. And that's obviously not going to happen. It just doesn't make any sense to me to buy a bike that doesn't fit.
Brompton is a factory, putting out more than 50.000 bikes a year. Bike friday is a family business, putting out ~2000 bikes a year, judging from their recent crowd-funding campaign. Brompton sells standard models, bike friday sells custom bikes - nothing wrong with either, still a different business model. I am not sure if you can test-ride a BF exactly with the mods that you'd want on your own bike - at the moment most customers seem to order on the phone or via web from the factory and many have not even ridden or seen a BF before ordering one, let alone their personal configuration...

Possibly you should go for the Packit as even when the Brompton can be made to fit for your special needs you'd still complain that it does not come as a standard-model that way (which to me seems a bit of a weird approach to be honest).
Please let us know how the Packit fits for you regarding sizing! I am wondering as - going through their configurator - I could not find out if they are building the frame to custom fit or if it is just the stem that has a different height (strangely enough I did neither find blades nor a rack nor lighting options in the configurator as well).
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Old 11-05-17, 03:30 PM   #106
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I have a Brompton. It's never going to be 19 pounds no matter how much money I spend on it. Linberl wants a Pakit. It will be 19 pounds.
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Old 11-05-17, 04:27 PM   #107
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Well - Brompton has four different stems and three different posts with at least one of the combinations fitting most riders. This choice may not be sufficient for every given rider but it is more than many other bikes offer, even in that price range. Most stock bikes you have to customize in one way or another it is always on your own risc and cost.



Well no bike is "ideal" and your needs seem to be very special, at least in terms of reach. A good dealer will no doubt do customize the bike for you, even a Brompton. I know a couple of dealers in Germany that are willing to do this if you demand it and at least one that offers it when appropriate for your body-size and -shape before you demand it. Still the Brompton is a bike that comes as a complete bike from the factory, so it is understandable that modifications by dealers are a bit limited, as some of them may influence the warranty and - as the Brompton is a tiny but complex beast - many dealers lack knowledge. Plus many of the accessories come from Asia and the longterm-quality is as unknown as if they have been constructed, manufactured and tested to modern western (legal) standards, therefor dealers are not keen on building these onto customers bikes.
It may however be the case that you have a lack of good and competent dealers in your area - can't judge on that.




Brompton is a factory, putting out more than 50.000 bikes a year. Bike friday is a family business, putting out ~2000 bikes a year, judging from their recent crowd-funding campaign. Brompton sells standard models, bike friday sells custom bikes - nothing wrong with either, still a different business model. I am not sure if you can test-ride a BF exactly with the mods that you'd want on your own bike - at the moment most customers seem to order on the phone or via web from the factory and many have not even ridden or seen a BF before ordering one, let alone their personal configuration...

Possibly you should go for the Packit as even when the Brompton can be made to fit for your special needs you'd still complain that it does not come as a standard-model that way (which to me seems a bit of a weird approach to be honest).
Please let us know how the Packit fits for you regarding sizing! I am wondering as - going through their configurator - I could not find out if they are building the frame to custom fit or if it is just the stem that has a different height (strangely enough I did neither find blades nor a rack nor lighting options in the configurator as well).
I understand the difference in the business models - but specialized and trek sell thousands and thousands of bikes and their dealers can send you on the way with a bike that fits. That's all I'm saying. As for bike friday, if you don't already have one, you can send in your precise measurements from any bike that fits and they will replicate it. I happen to already have one, so it's a non-issue. I also had a pro bike fit and they asked me to send them those measurements as well. People who fit the bromptons "as is" are like people who don't need to get their pants shortened - they just annoy me

I will be test riding a pakiT on tuesday which has a frame sized very similar to my current BF. The owner has it set for a more upright riding position than I like, but I will not have any trouble inferring ride quality and since the measurements will be exactly what I order a precise replica isn't necessary for the test ride. BF set up my test ride; if you ask, they contact local customers on your behalf with your basic config. Racks, fenders, lights are all available through their parts page but I don't need or want any of that. I've got plenty of lights, a burley travoy trailer so I don't need a rack, and a qr fender which I will use. Not my first bike; I have lots and lots of "stuff" lol. Too much, really.

If I decide I don't like the pakiT, the brompton is not going to be my alternative. You might be okay spending 2 grand on a bike and then hoping you can make it fit you well, but I'm most def not. That's something I might do with a $500 Dahon.

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Old 11-05-17, 04:55 PM   #108
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I have a Brompton. It's never going to be 19 pounds no matter how much money I spend on it. Linberl wants a Pakit. It will be 19 pounds.
Possibly you should try harder - if not at lightening your bike at least to get hold of proper information before posting.








6,7 kg Source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/shinnaj...romptonfolders

And so on and so on. All those were already there back in 2014...
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Old 11-05-17, 05:02 PM   #109
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People who fit the bromptons "as is" are like people who don't need to get their pants shortened - they just annoy me
Which means you don't wear pants are you are not willing to pay for shortening them?
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Old 11-05-17, 05:24 PM   #110
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Possibly you should try harder - if not at lightening your bike at least to get hold of proper information before posting.








6,7 kg Source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/shinnaj...romptonfolders

And so on and so on. All those were already there back in 2014...
Yeah, I'm obviously referring to my steel M6L, which is never going to be 19 pounds unless I actually turn it into a 2-speed titanium model, which would be silly..I would just buy the titanium model.

In relation to the actual conversation we're actually having, which is steel folders that start under $2k, my bike is never going to be 19 pounds short of replacing the whole bike. But thanks for the lecture, sport.
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Old 11-05-17, 05:53 PM   #111
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Which means you don't wear pants are you are not willing to pay for shortening them?
Actually, I buy them at Nordstrom and tailoring is included! If I'm going to pay a pretty penny I anticipate a degree of service. Now I buy jeans and don't get free tailoring and they aren't expensive but they're not "one size fits all" - they come in different lengths.

Btw, I checked out the lightest 2 speed brompton I could buy - ready made - and it was 21 lbs and a few ounces. That was the superlight titanium model at a little over 2 grand. But it was only 2 speeds...add in gearing and the weight goes up even on the titanium models. Can you spend aftermarket to lighten it - sure - making it a 3 grand bike. You really can't compare the weight a single speed with a geared bike. Compare apples to apples - you can get a pakiT single speed at 13.6 lbs!!! It's 15 lbs if you don't pay for carbon drivetrain.

For less than 2 grand I'll have an 18.96 pound 8 speed inclusive of saddle and pedals. The pakiT looks a LOT cuter when I think about that. And I think the components are better as I'm upgrading to velocity rims and velocity race hubs, 105 brakes, etc. You've actually made me feel better about the pakiT, so thanks.

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Old 11-05-17, 06:05 PM   #112
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Linberl, I don't have any particular interest in the Pakit, but I think it looks cool. It's a nice bike.
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Old 11-05-17, 06:17 PM   #113
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Linberl, I don't have any particular interest in the Pakit, but I think it looks cool. It's a nice bike.
I'm a little concerned about whether it will ride even more twitchy than a 20" but I got used to that so...
If the little tires can handle big potholes and wide cracks, I will probably like it just fine.
I like more rounded lines and it is rather angular, but I can adjust my perception - much like how I though 20" bikes
looked funny at first.
And when I finally get my shareroller, I'll have a 23.5 lb e-bike when I want it!
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Old 11-05-17, 07:13 PM   #114
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I'm a little concerned about whether it will ride even more twitchy than a 20" but I got used to that so...
If the little tires can handle big potholes and wide cracks, I will probably like it just fine.
I like more rounded lines and it is rather angular, but I can adjust my perception - much like how I though 20" bikes
looked funny at first.
And when I finally get my shareroller, I'll have a 23.5 lb e-bike when I want it!
I've owned a bunch of 20-inchers and two 16. The smaller wheel is slightly noticeable for about a week, then you get used to it. All folders I've ridden handle more like each other than anything with big wheels; I think if you're comfortable with 20" you'll be fine with 16".
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Old 11-06-17, 03:16 AM   #115
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You've actually made me feel better about the pakiT, so thanks.
That's great! I think the Packit is clearly a clever and great bike. For Europeans not so much as there are basically no dealerships over here and no possibilities to try one as well as BFs are really rare and Packits basically non existent. And the price is massive - with shipping, customs and import-duties you'll end up on a very steep level, far, far higher than what you pay in the US. But I've test ridden a friend's Pocket Lama once and know a couple of people owning 20" BFs that are all happy with their bikes. Still I personally would possibly prefer the Tikit over the Packit but that's no longer an option anyway.
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Old 11-06-17, 06:51 AM   #116
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I understand the difference in the business models - but specialized and trek sell thousands and thousands of bikes and their dealers can send you on the way with a bike that fits. That's all I'm saying.
You are comparing apples and Elephants madam! Do you really expect the same fit oportunitys from a B you can fold and hide in any small corner with a 622 wheled bike? Also with the situation you describe is more about the dealers than the bikes. It is more than possible to have the B fit you if you trust the peopel who do it. You trust the BF peopel so why not the B peopel? becouse they are foreigners ?

Also I want to remind you that it is you who keep comming back to the Brompton, not us. We just chime in and try to help.

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People who fit the bromptons "as is" are like people who don't need to get their pants shortened - they just annoy me
Short trousers is what annoys me, since I have the opposite "problem" of what you have (oh yes and peopel who do not do theyr own sewing also annoy me but I guess I should not say that or you`ll all be on my neck).
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Old 11-06-17, 10:29 AM   #117
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You are comparing apples and Elephants madam! Do you really expect the same fit oportunitys from a B you can fold and hide in any small corner with a 622 wheled bike? Also with the situation you describe is more about the dealers than the bikes. It is more than possible to have the B fit you if you trust the peopel who do it. You trust the BF peopel so why not the B peopel? becouse they are foreigners ?

Also I want to remind you that it is you who keep comming back to the Brompton, not us. We just chime in and try to help.



Short trousers is what annoys me, since I have the opposite "problem" of what you have (oh yes and peopel who do not do theyr own sewing also annoy me but I guess I should not say that or you`ll all be on my neck).
Ok first of all it's not that I "trust" bike friday and don't trust brompton...bf uses non-proprietary part and I, with my somewhat limited mechanical skills, can swap out pretty much anything on the bike at very reasonable cost. Making fit changes on a bf is the same as making fit changes on any road bike; i know exactly what the effect will be BEFORE I do it. Yes, brompton parts can be swapped out as well, but (1) it's not as simple, (2) many parts are proprietary and/or limited, (3) the parts are often very expensive because of the limited sources, (4) it's more difficult to anticipate the effect of the changes. You're on the other side of the pond, as I recall, so maybe the cost and dealerships, etc., are not such an issue. Here there are 2 dealers on my side of the Bay and neither is knowledgeable about any kind of alternative fitment. As for being foreign-made (can't tell if you were kidding or not), I have happily owned an italian road bike and a couple of peugeot in my life. Traditional bikes that worked with standard parts.

I keep coming back to how the brompton looks not how it works or rides. I have given up on making it work for me. I'm not quite 70 yet but maybe when I'm pushing 80 I will be okay riding straight upright and then the brompton fit won't be an issue . You might have been the person who mentioned the older ones were shorter - if one of those came up on CL in my area, I might buy it to tinker and see what happens. I could ride over on my pakiT and strap it to my travoy to bring it home

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Old 11-06-17, 10:33 AM   #118
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That's great! I think the Packit is clearly a clever and great bike. For Europeans not so much as there are basically no dealerships over here and no possibilities to try one as well as BFs are really rare and Packits basically non existent. And the price is massive - with shipping, customs and import-duties you'll end up on a very steep level, far, far higher than what you pay in the US. But I've test ridden a friend's Pocket Lama once and know a couple of people owning 20" BFs that are all happy with their bikes. Still I personally would possibly prefer the Tikit over the Packit but that's no longer an option anyway.
I've kind of been keeping my eye out for a small tikit but all i've seen is large ones on resale. Never rode one but, yes, it would definitely be an option. Not willing to give BF nearly $4k to produce one for me as a one-off though. I guess brompton's are probably lot cheaper if you get them "over there". Here, a 2 speed lightweight is over 2 grand.

As I said to badmother, while I intend this to be my last bike purchase, maybe when I get way more old and decrepit, I will enjoy an upright riding position and can reconsider the brompton. If I rode upright, it would fit me okay just by rotating the bars a bit. Hehe....something to look forward to about getting older, lol.
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Old 11-08-17, 07:48 AM   #119
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I too like the look of the Brompton, but not so much riding it. The front end feels too nervous and the gaps in the gears are way too large. The Tikit run rings around it except for the fold. However if you need to wheel the bikes for any distance, the Tikit does it better. Don't really get the Pakit, the Tikit is so much more a complete bike, and the hyperfold is unbeatable.
I have a Brompton in raw laquer that sits in the cupboard and I can't bring myself to sell it.
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Old 11-08-17, 10:09 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by desastar View Post
I too like the look of the Brompton, but not so much riding it. The front end feels too nervous and the gaps in the gears are way too large. The Tikit run rings around it except for the fold. However if you need to wheel the bikes for any distance, the Tikit does it better. Don't really get the Pakit, the Tikit is so much more a complete bike, and the hyperfold is unbeatable.
I have a Brompton in raw laquer that sits in the cupboard and I can't bring myself to sell it.
Raw lacquer is soooo pretty, I can see why, lol. I'm thinking there has to be a way to stabilize the front fork on the pakiT so you can roll on one tire. There's a guy who has a video showing he's done it but he just nudges the tire in place. I'm thinking a velcro cable tie or a little plastic clip could do it. I think the Tikit is very cool but they are not as easy for BF to produce in quantity, and they are heavier. If the pakiT can roll, somehow, it would be a nice combination of the two.
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Old 11-09-17, 05:06 PM   #121
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Ok, order placed. velocity wheels and race hubs, kojak tires. sugino cranks. shimano 105 caliper brakes super SLR with shimano bl550 levers. sram pc 870 chain and 11-28 cog set. the only part I didn't change out (but will after I get the bike) is the claris rear der. Bike comes in under 19.5 with saddle/pedals for a medium frame and I take a small frame so there will be an unspecified amount of weight savings. I'm super excited - they had a free expedited delivery coupon - so I will get if by mid-Dec. Merry me =).

Thanks to everyone (seriously) for all the input and conversation. You made me think and evaluate carefully.
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Old 11-09-17, 06:40 PM   #122
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Congratulations! Trust me, I'm excited about your order too
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Old 11-09-17, 06:46 PM   #123
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The wait will give me time to work on how to make it roll. My most recent idea is to see if there's a way to repurpose the dahon magnet set - one on the front fork and one ?. Will have to see how it lines up in the small frame. Might even work if I just use a carefully sized tether between the two and stick one on the fork and other somewhere else - I just need to keep the front fork from flopping and it will roll on that one wheel just fine, I believe.
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Old 11-09-17, 07:27 PM   #124
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Congrats on nailing what you want! Exited to see and hear more. What colour did yo end up with?
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Old 11-09-17, 09:23 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by badmother View Post
Congrats on nailing what you want! Exited to see and hear more. What colour did yo end up with?
Thanks.
I'm so lame, I couldn't decide and was making myself crazy, so I just went with orange again to stop spinning my "wheels" lol. I'm very happy with all the upgrades I made, for 2k I've got myself an under 19 lbs bike with saddle/pedals and 8 speeds. Now I just have to wait.....aaargh.
Interesting thing when I was out riding the brompton to get a feel for 16" tires...the dealer (tried a new one more than an hour away) helped me nail down the issue which is the s bar is the right height but too far away which made it too low. He mentioned there is something called an Evo S bar kit which would put a riser bar on the bike without screwing up the fold so, while the reach would stlll long, it would put the bars higher. but not as high as the M, which was too high. His suggestion was that I look for a used 2 speed, which he said is common because people think it will be okay but then realize they need more gears, and he could give me a quote on doing the Evo thing. Riding the bike was interesting enough that, if I come across one pretty cheap that's maybe an older model but still functioning, it might be worth playing with it. Even a single speed would work. After I got done messing with it, I could put it back to regular and give to my adult son; that kind of motivates me to go there. He'd love it. And I can't hand down my BF's to him because he's almost 6 feet. But no more bikes until I sell my NWT and spend some time just enjoying the pakiT.

Last edited by linberl; 11-09-17 at 10:19 PM.
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