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Old 10-30-17, 11:38 AM   #1
linberl
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Check my final pakiT configuration choices

I'm going standard with everything except upgrading to:
1. Thomsen elite seatpost
2. Velocity aeroheat wheels
3. Velocity race hubs, front and rear
4. upgrading to 105 caliper brakes
5. upgrading to 105 brake levers
6. upgrading to 105 rear derailleur

I was going to go for the lighter frame options (titanium seatpost and lighter front forks), but for about the same price I can go with the race hubs from velocity and save the same weight while getting a better ride. I want to upgrade the brakes because I will be using the bike with a Shareroller friction drive and supposedly the 105's have better stopping power. And I'm upgrading the rear derailleur because Claris isn't great.

This puts a size small frame 8 speed at about 18.75 pounds without seat but including my grip king pedals.

Do these upgrades seem like good choices or would you recommend a different option? I want the bike to be no more than 19 pounds with seat for me to be able to lift and carry it often.
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Old 10-30-17, 12:20 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
I'm going standard with everything except upgrading to:
1. Thomsen elite seatpost
2. Velocity aeroheat wheels
3. Velocity race hubs, front and rear
4. upgrading to 105 caliper brakes
5. upgrading to 105 brake levers
6. upgrading to 105 rear derailleur

I was going to go for the lighter frame options (titanium seatpost and lighter front forks), but for about the same price I can go with the race hubs from velocity and save the same weight while getting a better ride. I want to upgrade the brakes because I will be using the bike with a Shareroller friction drive and supposedly the 105's have better stopping power. And I'm upgrading the rear derailleur because Claris isn't great.

This puts a size small frame 8 speed at about 18.75 pounds without seat but including my grip king pedals.

Do these upgrades seem like good choices or would you recommend a different option? I want the bike to be no more than 19 pounds with seat for me to be able to lift and carry it often.
I think you're there. That's all nice stuff - the Claris derailleur is a boat anchor - and wheels are the first/best place to save grams because they're out there on the ends tossing weight around an axis. It sounds great!
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Old 10-30-17, 12:29 PM   #3
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Do they have the Capreo option and Chosen hubs?

Oops, that won't work with 11s...

Well, except I have the answer to that
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Old 10-30-17, 01:05 PM   #4
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Colour?
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Old 10-30-17, 01:08 PM   #5
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Colour?
Lol....either black or yellow, I think. My son says go with black, but I like "happy" colors. Probably going yellow with black cables. I would have gone candy apple red but it's not available anymore.
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Old 10-30-17, 03:49 PM   #6
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Nice. Previously you expressed concern about Kojaks' ability to resist punctures. Are you sticking with them? I wonder whether the pakiT can accommodate Marathon tires.
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Old 10-30-17, 05:11 PM   #7
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I'm gonna start off with the kojaks because they are almost half the weight of marathon plus. Will see how it goes.
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Old 10-30-17, 06:44 PM   #8
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I'm gonna start off with the kojaks because they are almost half the weight of marathon plus. Will see how it goes.
A wise decision, IMO. Marathons are great for being impervious to flats, but they get there by being heavy and slow and terrible. Terrible!
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Old 10-30-17, 07:31 PM   #9
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A wise decision, IMO. Marathons are great for being impervious to flats, but they get there by being heavy and slow and terrible. Terrible!
I've been running marathon racers and regular marathons on my NWT and what I have noticed is that the spaces between the tread bumps (don't know if they have an actual name) are where glass tends to get caught and then it works in to the tire if I don't catch it quickly enough. Now I'm in the habit every time I stop of quickly rotating the wheels and looking. I'm wondering if the smooth kojaks actually might pick up less stuff; that would be nice.
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Old 10-30-17, 10:49 PM   #10
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I'd be interested to hear how that goes, the debris-pick-up-ability of grooved tires drives me crazy. The Fatty Rumpkins with Kevlar strip on my Rivendell Clem have big circles that don't hold onto stuff, which seems a better idea for commuter tires.
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Old 10-31-17, 02:20 AM   #11
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I'd be interested to hear how that goes, the debris-pick-up-ability of grooved tires drives me crazy. The Fatty Rumpkins with Kevlar strip on my Rivendell Clem have big circles that don't hold onto stuff, which seems a better idea for commuter tires.
As the Packit has the same 349 tire size as the Brompton tire experiences should be about the same. I have been running Kojaks (folding as well as non-folding) on one of my Bromptons for a couple of years now and while they are fast as light it is very easy to get a puncture. There's only very little protection. It went as bad as three punctures on a single tour. They do collect quite a bit when new, therefor it is recommended to let them mature for at least six months before mounting as they will be much less cohesive then and collect far less - probably not a problem with a new bike with Kojacs mounted as stock. They get cut badly and continuously all the time by glass and other things, making them even more affected to punctures this way, so they do not last very long. Broken glass goes through them like a hot knife though butter. And you have to keep the pressure high (>100 PSI), else you'll get even more punctures. But hell are they fast.... At lease patching a puncture is effortless. Therefore I am loving the Kojaks but use them only depending on the environment and if I can live with a puncture.

I hate Marathon+ and am using Marathon Greens on my winter Brompton - those last forever and I never had a puncture with them yet. But they are heavier and noticeably slower than the Kojak. Just too much drag. Plus mounting them is a pain.

On my day-to-day-Brompton I am therefor using Brompton Kevelars - to me they seem to be the best compromise regarding speed, weight and punctures. After a couple of years they tend to disintegrate, especially at the rear wheel where there might be oil involved and then the punctures start. Therefore they have a limited lifespan, independend from the thread (at least this was the case with the Brompton greens, last generation before the current Kevelars). They collect broken glass of a certain, small size in the thread and this works it's way through the tire. So this is a weak point.

It is worth noticing that Brompton has discontinued the Kevelar and is switching to Schwalbe Marathon Racer as their new standard tire in 2018. The Racer has not been available in 349 until now. Hopefully it is a good choice - it had an overhaul for 2017, so most of the common critics on this tire should be invalid now. I am running the current version on a 20" folder and until now am very pleased with it (plus no punctures yet).

Of the stock tires for the Packit I'd therefor possibly go for the Primo Komet - never had one personally but it seems to be a decent tire. Other than that I'd possibly consider the Scorcher. Again no own experience but from what I've heard very fast and very comfy at the same time. A bit expensive though and possibly not the best in the wet.
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Old 10-31-17, 04:44 AM   #12
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Interesting how few instances the Primo Comet is mentioned. It is my favourite after going through Kojaks, Marathon Racers and Plus, and others. I have had very few punctures and its is slick, has a tested low rolling resistance and... And I've run out of positives. Oh they come in Kevlar belted for puncture resistance with reflective sidewall but are almost impossible to get in Australia.
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Old 10-31-17, 06:00 AM   #13
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Lol....either black or yellow, I think. My son says go with black, but I like "happy" colors. Probably going yellow with black cables. I would have gone candy apple red but it's not available anymore.
So that is two (me and your son) for black... If you use the "happy colours" on stuff that is not lasting forever (housing bags chlotes and so on) it is easyer to change the "style" later- if you want of course.

Colour is not onluy about how they look. I have a white folder that i like, but all the tiny scratches in the paint collect dirt so it does not look good close up. This is easyer with darker colours. I am "haunted" by red bikes for some reason, that is the price you pay when buying second hand, you take the colour you get.

I remember first time I looked at the matte black edition Bromptons in Copenhagen. I LOVED The black/orange one, and I am not into orange at all- maybe apart from oranges...
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Old 10-31-17, 08:44 AM   #14
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Interesting how few instances the Primo Comet is mentioned. It is my favourite after going through Kojaks, Marathon Racers and Plus, and others. I have had very few punctures and its is slick, has a tested low rolling resistance and... And I've run out of positives. Oh they come in Kevlar belted for puncture resistance with reflective sidewall but are almost impossible to get in Australia.
It's a nice tire. It's been passed over by other tires in my book ... I like the Tioga BMX tires better and they're often less expensive too. I remember some folks in the Pacific Northwest complaining about Primo Comets' handling in wet conditions. Although I never found that to be the case.

In 349, my favorite tire is easily the Greenspeed Scorcher. It fits nicely on the tikit. Although the caliper brakes suggests that it won't fit on the Pakit.
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Old 10-31-17, 09:26 AM   #15
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So do you guys think the Comet is better in terms of flats than the kojak? They're both very light. I tend to not ride in rain much so that's not a big deal. Also - Jur - which one do you think is better for the Shareroller? Planning ahead...ahead...ahead.
The racers are good but I've had flats with them, too. The regular marathon has been more puncture resistant for me than the racer. One reason I got the chain drive - patching a flat is super easy (I usually just swap the tube and then patch the bad one when I get home). The swap takes less than 3 minutes.
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Old 10-31-17, 09:34 AM   #16
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So that is two (me and your son) for black... If you use the "happy colours" on stuff that is not lasting forever (housing bags chlotes and so on) it is easyer to change the "style" later- if you want of course.

Colour is not onluy about how they look. I have a white folder that i like, but all the tiny scratches in the paint collect dirt so it does not look good close up. This is easyer with darker colours. I am "haunted" by red bikes for some reason, that is the price you pay when buying second hand, you take the colour you get.

I remember first time I looked at the matte black edition Bromptons in Copenhagen. I LOVED The black/orange one, and I am not into orange at all- maybe apart from oranges...
Well, now, just as I was getting settled into yellow, lol... I do think the black will look sharper, especially with the silver chain drive and large silver chainring that comes with the 8 speed. But - my "accessories" are black (brooks saddle, pdw leather ergo grips, bag). They don't offer orange cables or I might do that, to keep up with my SF Giants theme in reverse from my NWT (which is orange with black). Black with yellow cables looks really sharp and I can get a yellow handle but otoh black bikes don't look so good when dusty and they aren't as visible. Still mulling it over
The black/orange brompton is gorgeous - but the brommies have about half and half when colored. For some reason, the pakiT rear triangle and fork kind of disappear rather than balance the color of the frame the way the brompton does. Probably because of the size imbalance in width of tubing.

Choosing parts was hard but at least there was a reason for each choice. With color it is purely subjective so it's even harder, lol.
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Old 10-31-17, 10:07 AM   #17
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So do you guys think the Comet is better in terms of flats than the kojak?
I think you'll be fine with either. Anecdotally, the folding bike shops around here seem to like the Kojaks better.

How and where you ride is a meaningful predictor of flats, IME. I'm going on a few years without a flat now.
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Old 10-31-17, 10:25 AM   #18
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So you are opting for drop bars & Brifters, wont fold as well with those bars, of course..

Maybe you have esoteric bike shops in the IT dominated Bay Area.. thsat are experienced with the Velocity house brand hubs

here, I'd stick with More common 105 hubs from Shimano, rather than ;
Quote:
Velocity race hubs, front and rear,
Due to world wide spare parts availability and most bike shops are familiar with servicing them.

Bike Friday for 349-16" wheels uses a 24 spoke rim, on my bike its Sun CR18.. rear hub 36 hole..
but they have experience at wheelbuilding using skip hole spoke pattern lacing ..

you may be able to get them to use a 28 hole hub and rim.. 4 spokes dont weigh that much more..



more = stronger wheel ..

* But I note they offer a Sram/Shimano Cassette driver.. IDK if its Steel, for durability or light alloy to cut grams.

http://www.velocityusa.com/product/hubs/race-rear-hub

they use a 100mm fork ?, or the more folding bike typical narrower 74mm the Velocity, hub may not be offered in 74,

but they likely have a high quality 24 hole cartridge bearing 74mm hub, if not Phil Wood , San Jose, does.



....

Last edited by fietsbob; 10-31-17 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 10-31-17, 11:14 AM   #19
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Maybe you have esoteric bike shops in the IT dominated Bay Area.. thsat are experienced with the Velocity house brand hubs

here, I'd stick with More common 105 hubs from Shimano, rather than ;

Due to world wide spare parts availability and most bike shops are familiar with servicing them.

Bike Friday for 349-16" wheels uses a 24 spoke rim, on my bike its Sun CR18.. rear hub 36 hole..
but they have experience at wheelbuilding using skip hole spoke pattern lacing ..

you may be able to get them to use a 28 hole hub and rim.. 4 spokes dont weigh that much more..



more = stronger wheel ..

* But I note they offer a Sram/Shimano Cassette driver.. IDK if its Steel, for durability or light alloy to cut grams.

Velocity Wheels - Hand Made in USA

they use a 100mm fork ?, or the more folding bike typical narrower 74mm the Velocity, hub may not be offered in 74,

but they likely have a high quality 24 hole cartridge bearing 74mm hub, if not Phil Wood , San Jose, does.



....
Sometimes your posts confuse the heck out of me....the pakiT elite uses the same velocity race hub 100mm as an option so I'm not sure why you mention 74mm hubs as it doesn't apply to the pakiT?

24 spokes will be fine for me, i weight 135lbs. AFAIK hubs are hubs in terms of servicing them? I won't be taking the bike out of the U.S. so not too worried about parts. My son has velocity hubs on his commuter and he's had no problem getting them serviced at several shops during tuneups.
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Old 10-31-17, 11:19 AM   #20
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I'm a mechanic, Here we see bike tourists who have exotic parts, they're screwed if they break ,

because they have to wait for days to get the replacements special ordered and shipped in..

But as the town increasingly , has a tourist economy hotel/motel rooms and food and drink places are abundant.





.....
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Old 10-31-17, 01:33 PM   #21
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Maybe you have esoteric bike shops in the IT dominated Bay Area.. thsat are experienced with the Velocity house brand hubs

here, I'd stick with More common 105 hubs from Shimano, rather than ;

Due to world wide spare parts availability and most bike shops are familiar with servicing them.

Bike Friday for 349-16" wheels uses a 24 spoke rim, on my bike its Sun CR18.. rear hub 36 hole..
but they have experience at wheelbuilding using skip hole spoke pattern lacing ..

you may be able to get them to use a 28 hole hub and rim.. 4 spokes dont weigh that much more..



more = stronger wheel ..
Using 36 spoke hub with a 24 spoke rim is possible and easy - but from a factory I would consider this a bid of a misled deign. Sun rims in 349 have the reputation to be a PITA for mounting tires on them, therefor I personally would avoid them.

More spokes equals stronger wheel is true, but 36 or even 32 spokes with a 349 wheel smells like over-engineering as smaller wheels are stronger out of the box anyway.

I would neither consider velocity very exotic nor expect the hubs to need service any time soon, let alone needing replacement parts. And if you try to get hold of spare parts for aged Shimano components you might face an ugly surprise... If the velocity hubs offer a noticable advantage over Shimano hubs might be a different discussion.
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Old 10-31-17, 01:44 PM   #22
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So do you guys think the Comet is better in terms of flats than the kojak? They're both very light. I tend to not ride in rain much so that's not a big deal. Also - Jur - which one do you think is better for the Shareroller? Planning ahead...ahead...ahead.
The racers are good but I've had flats with them, too. The regular marathon has been more puncture resistant for me than the racer. One reason I got the chain drive - patching a flat is super easy (I usually just swap the tube and then patch the bad one when I get home). The swap takes less than 3 minutes.
A bit confusing. If you want to avoid flats you should avoid the Kojak. In terms of stablity against flats it is clearly Marathon first, Racer second, Kojak third. That is why the Marathon is heavier and has more drag and vice versa. Barely anything in life comes for free... It is about the right compromise for your conditions. With a friction drive the Kojak will probably melt like butter.

Regarding the Comet it is fairly difficult to get hold of it in Europe and if you manage to it is expensive whereas the Kojak is common and cheap. Therefor no personal experience. I've been running the Kojak in 507 for a while (where it needs less pressure) and had no issues with road use. Same Kojak in 349 needs much more pressure and is very sensitive to punctures. Rumors say that the Comet high-pressure tire was the blueprint for developing the Brompton branded tires at the end of the 90ies as it was so much better than the oldschool Raleigh tires they were using at that time. I'd assume the Comet to be less problematic in regards of punctures than the Kojak but have no evidence though.
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Old 10-31-17, 01:55 PM   #23
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Comet through our LBS, is cheaper than the Kojak .. Do try and get more than the 2 tires that come on the bike , and some extra tubes too..

Want puncture resistance the tires are heavier.. Schwalbe Dropped the Marathon K so now you have a blue or green guard in the tire outside the casing , & black tread rubber is less thick as a result.



We @ bike shops get repair parts, to keep customers old bikes working, from our sources , the more trend driven online sellers don't bother to carry any more..



I have a 24 hole 349 Tikit, a 28 hole Brompton, and a 32 hole 406 wheel Pocket Llama .....

on my loaded 700c camp-tour bike it got a 40/48 spoke wheel set nicely reliable ..






....

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Old 10-31-17, 02:02 PM   #24
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24 spokes will be fine for me, i weight 135lbs. AFAIK hubs are hubs in terms of servicing them? I won't be taking the bike out of the U.S. so not too worried about parts. My son has velocity hubs on his commuter and he's had no problem getting them serviced at several shops during tuneups.
I have 24-spoke wheels on my tikit. I'm ~200lbs now.

EDIT: I've been riding them for years now. I've never had to true them.
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Old 10-31-17, 02:16 PM   #25
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& i just put Comet tires on my Tikit rims it was not difficult I use 2 VAR tire jack tools on tight installs .

I can get the bell Silca Head of my floor pump on more easily with the 24 hole rim, the thumb lock schrader is easier in the 28 hole..
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