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Old 11-14-17, 04:52 AM   #1
leoho5
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Difficulty with Dahon Europe warranty support

A friend of mine bought a Dahon Visc d18 last year and the bike unfortunately has a manufacturing defect in both rims preventing the tire beads from being properly seated in the rim. I accompanied my friend to the bike shop in Austria where it was purchased and the shop said that the problem was that the rims were too narrow to mount 1.5" tires! This is definitely not the issue as the same problem occurs with mounting 1.35" tires and I have physically verified the defect in both rims.

Naturally, taking a bike to the Dahon dealer is the first step in claiming warranty service however, the bike shop seems to be somewhat clueless and refuse to acknowledge the possibility of a manufacturing defect. I emailed Dahon Europe 2 times over the past 2 weeks without a response. There is no telephone number or other email address other than the Dahon Europe one ([email protected]). Needless to say, this has been a very frustrating experience especially not hearing back from Dahon Europe.

Previously I had a very nice experience with Dahon USA about a problem with a Curve SL back in the day which was promptly and successfully dealt with by Dahon USA. I'm really very surprised at the difference with Dahon Europe. If anyone can offer a suggestion in how to better get in contact with Dahon for warranty service in Europe, it would be very much appreciated.

Cheers
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Old 11-14-17, 05:11 AM   #2
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...There is no telephone number or other email address other than the Dahon Europe one ([email protected]). Needless to say, this has been a very frustrating experience especially not hearing back from Dahon Europe...
Exactly the same experience here; regarding the Monday Curl I've tried the same - no reply.
I've mailed Taiwan directly - nothing at all.
Tried to reach BBF, the German distributor - no answer.

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Old 11-14-17, 08:44 AM   #3
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What tyres were originally fitted? Couldn't he get the same type again? Assuming its not the original tyres fitted but then that would be weird the dealer saying not compatible with the tyres supplied. Dahon philosophy seems to be innovate in order to justify their pricing but much of their innovations are a bit crap to be honest. It's probably got some exclusive wheel rims that simply don't compare to standard wheel rims in strength and compatibility and you are forced to use a very narrow range of tyres that are compatible. Maybe the tyre mounting process isn't standard and needs glue or some other process. I would of thought it unlikely both wheels were actually incorrectly manufactured. Although some could argue a poor design is something incorrectly manufactured.
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Old 11-14-17, 09:17 AM   #4
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Since the bike is less than 2 years old, you may have legal recourse in Austria:

Guarantees and returns - Austria

This is Dahon's EU warranty:

DAHON Warranty Termsn and Information for you DAHON Bike

If it were me, I'd make sure the bike is registered with dahon.eu, then proceed to a Dahon dealer - maybe a different one if the first one doesn't know what it's doing - and make the warranty claim. This appears to be the only way to initiate a warranty claim, through a Dahon dealer, and not via emails with Dahon etc. Taking the bike to a Dahon dealer and initiating a warranty claim should get their attention in a hurry. If it doesn't, then it's time for legal recourse as in the first link above.
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Old 11-14-17, 01:52 PM   #5
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that is weird ..... Dahon doesn't make rrims ... they buy them from a couple well known and good quality builders ....
It seems strange that there is a problem with one bike ( and on both wheels ) while I have mounted everything from 20 x .09 to 20 x 2.15 on the same or similar rim ... with no problems


Can you identify if that bike was built in Europe ? ANd might have different rims than the US models ?


What tires are you trying to mount ? Brand and size ..

can you reply with your email address please. So our friends from Dahon can answer you directly

Thanks Thor
Thor
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Old 11-14-17, 03:21 PM   #6
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Thanks everyone for the input. Thor, yes I also think the rim defect is strange, especially if it only been reported on a single bike. I have a hunch there are some more defective rims out there. IMHO, there is no question on that it is a manufacturing defect as both rims have the same irregularity in that the floor of the rim (where the inner tube lays) is not at a uniform depth. On one side of the rim, the floor is too shallow (not enough room to mount bead) while the other side of the rim, the floor is too deep (bead sits too deeply). I would like to attach pictures of the defect but it seems I cannot attach pictures as attachments anymore which I used to be able to do. Now it seems there's only an option for a URL link. Thor, thanks for your willingness to help. I will send you a private email with pics of the defects and my email address.

The bike frame says that it was manufactured in the EU but I don't know if that also holds true for the rims. The bike came with Kenda KSmart tires 1.35 (28*406). My friend actually took the recommendation of the dealer that she bought the bike from and bought a pair of Marathon Plus's (1.35) from them that they themselves actually mounted. The shop didn't realize that the tires weren't seated properly because of the rim defect and both tires were damaged by the rim cutting into the sidewalls from the tires not being able to be seated properly. When she went back and showed them the tires, they blamed her that the tires were damaged because she didn't put enough air in the tires which is absolutely untrue. She never rode with under-inflated tires. I think the dealer or Dahon owes my friend a pair of Plus's. I also most recently mounted a pair of Marathon Racer's (1.50) which was also had the same problem. 3 sets of tires not being able to mounted properly, all with the same problem. This is when I finally examined the rims closely and found the same irregularities on both rims.

I found a link with the exact same bike my friend has with the exact same rims that have a thin blue stripe. Please keep in mind that the bike was not purchased from this website:

https://www.fahrradgigant.de/fahrrae...ad-18k-sw.html

Again, thanks to everyone for helping.
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Old 11-14-17, 03:47 PM   #7
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I wonder if you have a rimtape or rim strip installed which doesn't fit ...
I have never seen a rim profile where the profil itself is ondulating
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Old 11-14-17, 04:04 PM   #8
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You can upload pix from your computer by clicking on Post Reply, then Manage Attachments. If you use the Quick Reply box at the bottom of every thread, I don't believe you can post pix without a URL.
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Old 11-14-17, 04:16 PM   #9
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Oh goodness, I removed the rim strips which came with the rims and it seems as if the rims are fine and that the rim strips are too wide for the rim width which means the rims are probably ok! Gonna mount the tires tomorrow after narrowing the rim strips. It seems you are correct Thor.
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Old 11-14-17, 04:19 PM   #10
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Great you found the problem. I suppose the only question now is, who installed too-wide rim strips, the dealer or did they come that way from the factory?
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Old 11-14-17, 04:36 PM   #11
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if you don't have narrow rimstrips .. use electric tape .. its not as good but better than crusty wide rim strips with sharp edges


Glad we found the reason for your trouble
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Old 11-14-17, 06:40 PM   #12
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I suspect its the dealer. Maxcom bikes of Bulgaria are pretty advanced with regard manufacture and assembly. The comments of the dealer sound like an excuse culture for poor skills trying to place the blame elsewhere. I try not to pre-judge but it seems the more likely culprit. Maybe the rims are a little non-standard and the normal preset length rim tape just didn't fit and the dealer made no effort to correct it.

On that link to the bike the images aren't very impressive. This 900 euro bike has a low end microshift shifter and there looks like corrosion already on the securing bolt for the shifter and a big scratch across the plastic window of the shifter. Also the V brakes look flimsy and thin. Lastly the brake lever cable tension adjusters look very low end, entry level silver plastic. Sorry I can't help but notice whenever I look at a Dahon bike how poor value the components seem considering the retail price. I don't even know what type of front derailleur it is as the Dahon spec doesn't mention it. Is it also Tiagra?

Also check out this weird review.

Dahon Visc D18 Appletini Folding Bicycle Review | Folding Bike Critic

'Not a durable structure' is a strange negative I wonder if the review has been translated. Also does the bike have an indexed front derailleur shifter because the review seems to be hinting that it doesn't or has maybe a 3 speed shifter with a 2 chainring chainset.
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Old 11-14-17, 06:55 PM   #13
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Great guess on the rim strip
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Old 11-14-17, 07:16 PM   #14
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Agreed, Thor saved that dealer, Dahon Europe and a dissatisfied customer all in one fell swoop. They owe you big time. I'm thinking a free trip to Europe is the least they can do.
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Old 11-14-17, 08:22 PM   #15
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Great guess on the rim strip
Yep, good job. I guess - been there, done that!
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Old 11-14-17, 08:31 PM   #16
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just talked to the big boss in china....
he or lets say his folks will check if there was a wrong rim strip installed from the factory.
most likely not but its always good to have checks
due to time difference between china and europe it will take a little while to answer here ...

thanks thor
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Old 11-15-17, 08:24 AM   #17
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An update: the inner rim diameter of the Visc rims is only 14.3mm while the rim strips measure 20mm in width. It's no surprise that the edges of the rim strips ride up the sides of the rim interfering with tire mounting. I have removed and reinstalled the rim strips multiple times and it is not possible to install the rim strips without them riding up somewhere. I would guess that the rim strips probably came from the factory as it's difficult to imagine why the dealer would swap out the original rim strips.

Unfortunately a set of new tires were ruined by the faulty rim strips but at least we don't have to worry about getting the rims replaced anymore which is a big relief. Going to order some 10mm Velox and expect everything to be fine. My friend is probably not going back to the shop she bought the bike from to try and get her ruined tires replaced. She just doesn't want to see them anymore. Not only did she buy the bike from the shop, but a set of Orlieb panniers, mudguards, and the Marthon Plus's. Sigh.

Final conclusions:

1) Not all bike dealers are technically competent.
2) Dahon Europe's customer support is nil. This is completely unacceptable.
3) Thor is so dedicated that he does the work of other people even on other continents.
4) Always remove rim tape when not being able to mount tire beads properly.

Cheers
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Old 11-15-17, 09:24 AM   #18
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All good
as I said Dahon people are checking right now if those came from the factory and make sure ... just in case.
Leoho could you please find the dealer name for me .... I want to make sure that he does not make the same mistake again in the future
Thanks Thor
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Old 11-15-17, 12:09 PM   #19
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An update: the inner rim diameter of the Visc rims is only 14.3mm while the rim strips measure 20mm in width. It's no surprise that the edges of the rim strips ride up the sides of the rim interfering with tire mounting. I have removed and reinstalled the rim strips multiple times and it is not possible to install the rim strips without them riding up somewhere. I would guess that the rim strips probably came from the factory as it's difficult to imagine why the dealer would swap out the original rim strips.

Unfortunately a set of new tires were ruined by the faulty rim strips but at least we don't have to worry about getting the rims replaced anymore which is a big relief. Going to order some 10mm Velox and expect everything to be fine. My friend is probably not going back to the shop she bought the bike from to try and get her ruined tires replaced. She just doesn't want to see them anymore. Not only did she buy the bike from the shop, but a set of Orlieb panniers, mudguards, and the Marthon Plus's. Sigh.

Final conclusions:

1) Not all bike dealers are technically competent.
2) Dahon Europe's customer support is nil. This is completely unacceptable.
3) Thor is so dedicated that he does the work of other people even on other continents.
4) Always remove rim tape when not being able to mount tire beads properly.

Cheers
Aren't normal 20" rim tapes something like 20-22mm in width? Seems like the wheels are low profile and a bit non-standard and normal rim tapes were fitted, maybe the original rim tapes had perished or less than perfect and needed replacing by the dealer. It's not acceptable for the dealer to fit the wrong rim tape but maybe that is all they had. 10mm doesn't sound like a standard size for 20" rim tape. I think I've seen 16mm but even that doesn't sound usable for 14mm width rims. How much of the sidewall of the tyres actually fit into the rim, almost sounds like the rims may be slightly shallower than normal. I'm not a Dahon fan as I'm sure my comments portray but it reads like standard 20" wheels would not have had this issue, they tyres would have been better mounted and rim tape size would not have been an issue. Pretty much any 20" tyre could have been used and safely fitted to the wheels.
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Old 11-15-17, 01:17 PM   #20
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Thor has always been a major credit to Dahon and Tern and I hope those guys realise what jewel they have in their hands.
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Old 11-16-17, 04:25 AM   #21
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All good
as I said Dahon people are checking right now if those came from the factory and make sure ... just in case.
Leoho could you please find the dealer name for me .... I want to make sure that he does not make the same mistake again in the future
Thanks Thor
Sure Thor, I just have to run it by my friend as the owner of the shop is the partner of a friend of hers. I'll get to you via private email.

Thanks
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Old 11-16-17, 08:43 AM   #22
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Same experience with Dahon in Paris: It's very badly distributed. Retailers also complain about this.
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Old 11-16-17, 10:13 AM   #23
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Another update: I cut off a few mm's off the sides of both front and rear rim strips, reinstalled the strips and verified that the sides of the strips were no longer riding up on inner side of the rim walls and optimistically remounted the tubes and Marathon Racers. Unbelievably, the tires still have the exact same problem of the bead not seating correctly. The tires still spin lopsided and the problems is exactly the same as before. I'm a bit dumbfounded at the moment as it seemed like the rim strips were probably the culprit. I've had 9 Dahons over the past 15 years, have built my own wheels, and have never seen anything remotely like this.

When I get a chance, I'm going to remount the tubes and tires without the rim strips to see if the problem still exists. I will also plan on putting the rims in my truing stand to assess if there is an irregularity in floor height of the rim cavity.

Crazy.
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Old 11-16-17, 12:06 PM   #24
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If this were my set of rims, my first job is to isolate the problem. So I like your idea of putting the Marathons back on without rim strips to see how they mount. If they're OK, then the problem was with the rim strips. If they're not OK, then try mounting the Kendas without the rim strips to see if the problem persists. If it does, then it's most likely a manufacturing defect with the rims. You can also try Thor's suggestion of electrical tape or something similar in place of rim strips, to see if the width of the rim strip is part of the problem.

There is an outside chance that all three tire sets are defective, but that's a long shot. I wouldn't go mounting a different new set of tires just yet.

I suppose if there is good news, it's that rims can be replaced relatively easily, whereas replacing a frame would be more involved. So we can almost guarantee that if it's a rim problem, Dahon EU will step up to the plate and fix it for you, or replace with a different new rim set. Try not to get too discouraged, it'll all be sorted out eventually. Sorry your friend has to go through all this.
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Old 11-16-17, 02:59 PM   #25
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When I get a chance, I'm going to remount the tubes and tires without the rim strips to see if the problem still exists. I will also plan on putting the rims in my truing stand to assess if there is an irregularity in floor height of the rim cavity.
If you're close to Wien, you could go and chat with people at the BikeKitchen bike coop.
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