j.postema

Hi,

my girlfriend bought a 2400 euro new Brompton three years ago at a local Brompton dealer. She took the expensive options like raw lacquer, a Bromton front bag, a Brompton repair set, 6 speed gearing and a front hub. After 1 year of commuting there were clear signs of rust becoming visible. My girlfriend never bought a new bike before and had some very old historic bikes which never had this amount of rust in such a short time, so we got a bit surprised as the Brompton dealer explained to my girlfriend before buying the bike that this raw lacquer was of similar quality and durability as the coloured lacquers.

A few months later the rust worsened: lacquer was getting loose like a thin plastic layer which was easy to peel off. The tiny spots became bigger and appeared at multiple places like the read fork, below the bottom bracket and at the front frame hinge. My girlfriend contacted the Brompton dealer but the dealer didn't reply to emails and was difficult to reach by phone. After some effort she made an appointment to hand in the bike, let them take pictures and send them to Brompton. They painted the rusty spots, but the rust was already severe in my opinion and although I'm no expert, I had doubts about this measurement of just putting some paint on the rusty spots.

After multiple attempts of calling the dealer and waiting for a long time they reported us that Bromton replied to them that this rust is not covered by warranty and Brompton didn't want to give any support and warranty (!). We were very disappointed as my girlfriend bought the bike for a lot of money and planned to use it for an extensive period of time, (we both don't own / use cars) but to us it got questionable if the bike would last for a long time as within two years there were already heavy signs of rust on the frame.

My girlfriend complained again at the bike shop but they explained her that Brompton didn't cover any rust problems anymore: in past times they used to replace the rear frame under warranty, but not anymore.

The rust continued to worsen so I checked the Dutch law which tells a customer has the right of a proper product and lifetime expectancy depends on reputation and price of a product. But as a customer it turns out to be impossible to get justice as one has to start a lawsuit and pay a lot of money to begin with. So I decided, although I didn't agree / like to contact Brompton myself, as I find this a responsibility of the Brompton dealer, to email Brompton myself.

Brompton replied quickly and asked for photos. I emailed them the photos and they explained me that this is normal wear and is to be expected (!) and not covered by warranty. So after several emails I got angry and explained them that this is unacceptable for such an expensive bike. Then I got a phone call from England with a very friendly man. He told me that as a "good will guesture" they were willing to replace the rear frame - but this was an exception - they would normally never do this (!).

I told him about my own 28 year old second hand Bromton which got similar usage and did not show any sign of rust on the frame (!). The man got a bit frustrated and kept saying that they made an exception on this case. So I thanked him and agreed them to contact the bike shop to send the new frame. I agreed him to send my personal details to the bike shop so the bike shop could contact me when they got the new rear frame from Bromton. Brompton would pay the bike shop to replace the rear frame.

After 2 months of waiting I emailed Brompton to ask about the status: I had to be patient as the rear frame was custom made for us and this would take 4-6 weeks excluding shipping. After 5 months of waiting I got frustrated again as it felt like we were not treated serious. So I emailed Brompton again and told them that after about 3 years of calling, emailing and visiting the bike shop for multiple times I got upset. The next day I got a phone call from England again, again a very friendly man explained me that something must have gone wrong and he took high priority to solve it. A few days later Brompton called me again and explained that the dealer received the rear frame 3 months ago and it was laying at the attic for this period (!). I explained them that this was exactly my problem with this bike shop.

After a few days the bike shop called me to make an appointment to hand in the bike. After handing in the bike the bike shop explained me that they didn't see any appointment in their computer system, so I had to again make another appointment. At the day at which I could pick up the bike I made a phone call beforehand, to check if the bike was ready. It was not: 2 staff members got sick. So I made another appointment to pick up the bike the next day.

That next day a young man gave me the bike with the replaced rear frame. The hinge at the rear frame didn't "click" (secure), so the bike constantly folded. But I decided not to complain and fix this myself at home. I asked him for the old rear frame and he handed me it. I showed him the old rear frame and asked him for his opinion about the rust. He replied: this is unacceptable for such an expensive bike of only 3 years old. You have 5 years of warranty and he told me to use that warranty for the front frame as well, as he told me the rust at the bottom bracket was unacceptable. I explained him that I was already 2 years complaining about it.

I confirmed to Bromton that I got the bike again with the replaced rear frame. We could only select a coloured frame - not the raw lacquer - so we selected a black coloured rear frame. The bike looks much better now and we are happy with the new rear frame. But as said, the front frame has some severe rust as well - particularly at the bottom bracket.

I attached some pictures of the old rear frame. I got an email confirmation by Bromton about their warranty policy and the rust problems after I thanked them by email for their support and telling that I can't agree on their policy for rust / lacquer problems. They told me that frame finish is not covered by warranty - directing to the owners manual. They personally assured me that the frame didn't suffer any structural damage (!). To be honest, I doubt if this is true? The rust is only a visual thing according to Bromton and it would be safe to keep using the bike. The replacement of the rear frame is a gesture of good will.

Am I too picky / high demanding? Or do you think this is unacceptable? I made some detailed photos to get an impression of the old rear frame. The rust has been on the frame for at least the last 2 years.

2_i 

I am a bit baffled as to what occurred to the bike here. It is actually hard to make things rust significantly and it is relatively easy to protect them. I.e., to get this kind of rusting, you would normally need to keep a bike parked outside under elements for months, maybe a year+, and not give it any sort of protection. Water readily creeping under the lacquer and staying there indoors??

j.postema

Hi thanks for your reply, the bike has always been parked indoors: both when at work and when at home. We both don't manually dry our Brompton after a rainy ride (with clothes), but let them just dry indoors like all our bikes. (we both own four bikes per person) In winter time roads are treated with salt here in The Netherlands, but my own 28 year old Brompton has no single spot of rust while traveling in winter time. (this bike has a red / black lacquer)

The interesting observation is that other parts than the bike frame of my girlfriends bike frame are mostly free of rust like spokes, brakes, rims, whereas my own 28 year old Brompton which I bought secondhand 3 years ago has no single spot of rust on its frame but has several parts like some bolts which show rust.

lubloi

Clear coats do not protect the frame from rust the same way paint does, primarily because there is no primer. Salty water will seep through microcracks in the clear coat and cause 'rust snakes' under the clear coat (like what you can see in the third picture). The rust will expand the cracks, letting more water and salt in, accelerating the process. What happened to this Brompton is exactly what you would expect to happen to any clear-coated steel bike in a country that uses road salt. I don't know what Brompton were thinking selling the clear coat as an option in the Netherlands - it was a really bad idea.
If I were you, I would take the bike apart, get it sand blasted, and have it powdercoated. Alternatively, you could sand the frame down using sand paper, and give it a rattle can paint job (two coats of zinc-based primer, then paint, then clear coat). After this, the bike will be good for a few more decades of service.

2_i 

Below is a photo of a similar pattern developing under clear coat, this from here.

joey buzzard

Strip the frame and mechanically remove the laquer and the rust. Then as quickly as possible apply a powder coat. Job done! (A good powder coat shop should be able to handle both rust removal and powder coating. The finish will be more durable than conventional paints and shouldn't cost much more than €150).

j.postema

Thanks for your very informative contribution! I never had such a detailed technical explanation which really helps as we were doubting if we did some stupid things ourselves - but it seems it is the coat itself which mainly contributes to the problems.

j.postema

@2_i: interesting picture and recognizable
@joey buzzard: thanks for your practical hints

jfouellette

Hi,

The joys of steel and salt marriage. Living in Montreal I can see what salt can do to steel.

Here is an ASTM test method that can be use;

"Salt spray testing is popular because it is relatively inexpensive, quick, well standardized, and reasonably repeatable. Although there may be a weak correlation between the duration in salt spray test and the expected life of a coating in certain coatings such as hot-dip galvanized steel, this test has gained worldwide popularity due to low cost and quick results. Most Salt Spray Chambers today are being used NOT to predict the corrosion resistance of a coating, but to maintain coating processes such as pre-treatment and painting, electroplating, galvanizing, and the like, on a comparative basis. For example, pre-treated + painted components must pass 96 hours Neutral Salt Spray, to be accepted for production. Failure to meet this requirement implies instability in the chemical process of the pre-treatment, or the paint quality, which must be addressed immediately so that the upcoming batches are of the desired quality."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_spray_test

There is also an ISO method;

https://www.iso.org/standard/66400.html

See also;

"As the name implies, the test comprises different climates which are cycled automatically so the samples under test undergo the same sort of changing environment that would be encountered in the natural world. The intention being to bring about the type of failure that might occur naturally, but more quickly i.e. accelerated. By doing this manufacturers and suppliers can predict, more accurately, the service life expectancy of their products."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_corrosion_testing


Did Brompton use these tests to analyse the performance of the lacquer under those conditions?

Has your country/city increased or changed it's use of salt on the roads?

CEBEP

If rear frame is the part that always rusts and bike usage conditions involve salt, maybe it would make sence to invest into titanium forks both front and rear. Titanium do not rust under any circumstances.

CEBEP

Most probably no. ASTM is US standard while Brompton is EU. I'd assume such tests would've been performed should bikes require CE certification and if CE test directive would require salt tests. Otherwise producer would not do such tests voluntary as this would simply add more liability to producer.

jfouellette

Agreed, in the absence of mandatory use of test methods, the producer can use a test method internally as a way to measure performance. I don t think not doing a test is a way to avoid liability. I m sure EU has appropriate test methods. In this case ASTM in not a standard but a test method.

mlau

This rust is a known issue with the clearcoat/raw lacquer option (which is a bummer, since it's stunning).

GTA

Some say it is the veins of a raw lacquer steel frame