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24" advocates

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Old 05-23-18, 11:02 AM
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24" advocates

I wonder if there's anyone advocating 24 over 20.

I don't have a 24...but it makes sense to me for around here.

People really have a prejudice against 20 wheel...they think it's kid's bike...they think it's a clown bicycle.

24 would help fight that prejudice. And help make folding bike mainstream.

Most people have SUV or X-over nowadays...so throwing a 24 folded behind the back seat should be easy.

I think if manufacturers take 24 inch more serious and offer more variety, da folding bike market will flourish.

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Old 05-23-18, 11:09 AM
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I think it would depend on your goals. On road? Off road?

There is nothing wrong with the 20" Bike Fridays as packable touring bikes. Or, if one wishes, use a 26"/700c S&S Coupled bike or similar.

Anyway, find a problem that the 24" actually solves other than aesthetics before pushing it.
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Old 05-23-18, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
Most people have SUV or X-over nowadays...so throwing a 24 folded behind the back seat should be easy.
That's a statement that (as it is sometimes oddly common in this forum) is totally US-centric and ignores the fact that the world is bigger than the US of A and they are in fact a friction of the world's population. Overly huge cars may be common in the US - in most other countries no one drives a car of even the size of what US-Americans may call a small SUV. And even the idea of transporting a bike in a car is not that common - I for instance do not even own a car (and not for financial reasons), though in Germany for many people it is common to own a car. But in big cities those become less and less. In other countries most people may not own a car. Most people buy folders because of their small footprint regarding space - in public transport, at home, in the office, in an airplane - and sometimes in a car as well. But reducing folders to be used to be carried in SUVs is ignorant and ridiculous.

Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
I think if manufacturers take 24 inch more serious and offer more variety, da folding bike market will flourish.
The difference between 24" and 26" is not that big and 26" is far more common. 24" is still the wheel-size of a childrens bike.<br />I own a 24" folder (Airnimal Joey) and love it. But I also own 20" and 16" folders. And the bike I ride the most is 16" - the Brompton. Because it works more than well, is fun and it is a space saver, thus I can carry it with me most of the time.
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Old 05-23-18, 02:31 PM
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I perfectly see why rest of the world wants 20". But America is different. I have think 24" would be more sucessful here in USA. There would be alot of converts to FB, if 24'er were available more readily. Think all these people are buying expensive bike racks...when they could just fold and throw into the trunk.

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Old 05-23-18, 02:37 PM
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I got my 24 inch folder over a decade ago. I have used it very little, but I did do 300 plus miles on a van supported Adventure Cycling trip in Texas a month and a half ago during a week trip. I probably have a bit over a thousand miles total on it.

I have to pull the cassette off, the crank arms off and pull the fork out of the frame to fit it in an S&S case, thus it is not easy to get it into a case that will not trigger an oversize fee from an airline. (For those of you that do not know what an S&S case is, it is a case that is 26 by 26 by 10 inches which is the maximum that airlines allow without an oversize fee.) It is roughly the same amount of effort to pack it for airline travel as my full size expedition bike with S&S couplers. So, if I am going onto an airplane, it does not really offer any great advantage over an S&S bike or a Ritchey Breakaway bike. (S&S couplers and Ritchey Breakaway frames allow a full size bike frame to be split to pack into a smaller case for travel.)

I have not used my folder on a train, but where folders are given a preference over regular bikes on a train, then my folder will clearly win over a regular bike. And it is a lot easier to carry my 24 inch folder into and out of a building. And the folder would work better for going up or down stairs that have tight turns. But otherwise, the 24 inch folder does not have a lot of advantage over a full size bike.

And I do not think it has that much advantage over a 20 inch bike either. The 24 inch wheels probably are not as rough to ride over bumps as a 20 inch. But a suspension seatpost or a thudbuster can solve that. Some might argue that a 20 inch folder needs a really big chainring, but I do not see that as much of an argument because I am using a Sram Dual Drive which effectively has an overdrive. Using such a hub means that you do not need a huge chainring for higher gearing.

So, I do not see the 24 as being that great of an advantage. But I have never heard of anyone complaining that a 20 inch folder takes too much work to pack into a case for airline travel. I have also seen a good variety of 20 inch tires available. Most 24 inch tires (507 mm) are more of a kids bike kind of tire. There are some 24 inch tires (520 mm) that are skinny and faster rolling, but they are quite rare and hard to find. Since 507 and 520 tires are not interchangeable (they use different rims), you need to decide which 24 inch you want based on the tires you want to use and stick with that.

Regarding the concern of a 20 inch bike being a kids bike or clown bike, since most of the 24 inch (507 mm) tires are sold for use on kids bikes, do I need to elaborate? And if you are so sensitive about what other people might think of your bike, maybe you should avoid anything unusual.

After my Texas trip, I made two posts on my bike. For those that may be more interested in my bike, the links are at:
Folders in the wild - post your photos
Folders in the wild - post your photos

One more thought: With folding bikes, you are compromising ride-ability and portability. Some bikes are better at the portability where some are better at ride-ability. (And some are poor at both, but that is a different topic.) While my folder was designed to be a more ride-able bike that is somewhat portable, if your desire is for a more portable bike (especially for airline transport), you might be happier with 20 inch tires.

Regarding packing my bike, I worked in a bike shop before I went to college. I built up most of my bikes from the frame, built my own wheels, etc. Thus disassembling a bike for travel is not a complicated task for me, but it is a time consuming task. If you are not comfortable with mechanical aspects of a bike, you need to find a folder that requires the least amount of effort for packing for travel.

The bike packed in an S&S backpack case in the photo. (The piece of plywood in the center is a center support to prevent airline personnel from crushing the bike. That was not part of the S&S case, it is something I added.)


. . .
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Old 05-23-18, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
I perfectly see why rest of the world wants 20". But America is different. I have think 24" would be more sucessful here in USA. There would be alot of converts to FB, if 24'er were available more readily. Think all these people are buying expensive bike racks...when they could just fold and throw into the trunk.
Well, from a world perspective the US are a more or less underdeveloped country when it comes to cycling. Bike sales in the US are massively dependend on the price of gas and suffer as gas is still very cheap there. In most western countries folders are together with other special bikes like recumbents, trikes, cargo bikes etc. responsible for a low one-digit percentage of the number of bikes sold (maybe 3% or alike). In the US 12,5 mio bikes were sold in 2015, 0,4% of those were folders...


Source: https://nbda.com/articles/industry-o...-2015-pg34.htm

which would possibly make around 60.000 folders, if the source is correct regarding total bike sales. Not that bad. On the other hand most of them will possibly be cheap Chinese imports or in general bikes that do not cost a premium. Plus the best selling car in the US is still the Ford F series Pick Up with about 900.000 units sold in 2017. That's 20 times as much as Bromptons produced per year and 15 times as many F-series pickups sold (a single model from a single manufacturer) than all folders together in the US. And anybody who owns a pickup does not need a folder...

Would it make sense to develop a folder specifically for the US market? Maybe. Would it be clever to make this a 24" model? Possibly not as it would be a huge bet with no evidence for success and 24" folders are a close to non existing fraction of a very small market in all other countries. I you believe in it do it. Maybe you will be a rich man.

On the other hand: A couple of weeks ago I posted in this forum about a new big-wheel folder with 26" wheels - the Kruschhausen Fiiz. The post did not get a single reply. And their campaign on startnext got just 11 buyers until now (after two months). The bike rides great (I rode it), seems technically sound and the makers are trustworthy people - I do not see any risk to loose your money with them. Still only litte interest. Maybe that says something. 24" folders do exist. Still in the US as elsewhere there is no invasion let alone marked dominance of Airnimals or 24" Terns or Dahons.

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Old 05-24-18, 09:02 AM
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there is a 24" fat-bike wheel/tire too..

LBS has a fat tire 20" unicycle for sale also ..
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Old 05-24-18, 04:32 PM
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I took my 24 inch folder on the train for the 1st time today. Footprint was inline with my 20 inch Dahon and had no issues using or storing it. I will say I gained a lot more speed with the airnimal but to be fair the components are far superior than my entry level but upgraded Vybe.
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Old 05-24-18, 04:34 PM
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Is the Airnimal for sale in the States?
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Old 05-24-18, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
Is the Airnimal for sale in the States?
They haven't been available in the States for a few years ... if you find yourself looking for one, I have one for sale Here

Price is now $1400.00
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Old 05-24-18, 05:03 PM
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The one Bruce has for sale is awesome and I came very close to buying it. I plan on adding a full review on mine shortly but in short I have taken mine on two flights and now my normal train commute. It's on par with my full size road bike but easily breaks down into a normal suitcase on the 2nd fold. 1st fold takes me about 90 seconds for train and trunk storage. Easily does 25mph on the road. Mine came with the suitcase.


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Old 05-24-18, 06:23 PM
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To clarify, the Airnimal 24 inch includes two models. The Joey model that I have and the Chameleon model shown above by Kayakindude. The design of the two is quite different. The Chameleon is more of a go fast skinny tire model. The Joey was sold more as a commuter model.

I was quite surprised to see a Crazy Guy trip journal where they had both models on a tour. If you are interested more in these, this link might be interesting for you:
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?doc_id=10842

I bought my frame and fork (Joey model) over a decade ago. The store in Minneapolis where I bought it no longer sells Airnimal.

A lot of the components on my Joey are standard sized bike components, I assume that is also true of the Chameleon. Standard British thread bottom bracket, standard rear derailleur, my Joey can't take a front derailleur but some of the Airnimals can, the front hub is a standard 100mm spaced hub (I use an XT) and the rear on the Joey is 135mm spacing, I do not know if the Chameleon is 130 or 135mm. My point is that there are some proprietary parts, but not many.

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Old 05-24-18, 07:30 PM
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Nah...

...either 559 or 406. 559 is already known and proven so all you gotta do is convince people to fold the bike.

I don't own an SUV, but rather a small 1.3L engine city car. But isn't a point of riding bikes to dispense with the car, not put the bike in the car?

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Old 05-24-18, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Abu Mahendra View Post
isn't a point of riding bikes to dispense with the car, not put the bike in the car?
Possibly that's were the US are different! just kidding
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Old 05-25-18, 08:33 AM
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I drove 200 miles for a 50 mile bike ride.
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Old 05-26-18, 12:25 AM
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The market already speaks for itself with regards to 24" folding bikes.
There are already the options from Airnimal, Montague, Dahon and Tern, but their use is uncommon.
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Old 05-26-18, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
I drove 200 miles for a 50 mile bike ride.
i flew 5,000 kilometers for a 1,000 kilometer ride.
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Old 05-26-18, 06:48 AM
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I do have Dahon IOS D9, and I did bring it to overseas trip, inside bicycle cardbox, lucky enough no extra fee from SQ, but I did hear SNCF controller mumbling a complaint to me...he let me go anyway. I bought it with a thought that 24" wheel will be smoothly absorb bumps along canal road...but it was still hurt my b**t and my back. So after the trip I installed a cheapo front suspension, heavy yes but more comfortable. I am still using it now for errands, and maybe on my next bike trip it will go again...
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Old 05-26-18, 06:57 AM
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Fyi...

'SQ' refers to Singapore Airlines.
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Old 05-26-18, 08:05 AM
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My recent Texas trip with my Airnimal Joey, it had Marathon 24X1.5 tires (a discontinued size) and on the first day my hands were taking a beating from the rough pavement (tarmac), I had between 55 and 60 psi in the front tire. Second day in the morning I dropped the pressure to between 40 and 45, it rode much better. I left it at that pressure for the next week. And that was still enough pressure to prevent pinch flats while being high enough that rolling resistance was not noticeably increased. The rear tire, I kept that up at higher pressure, my sprung Brooks Conquest worked well and I did not need to drop rear tire pressure to soften the ride.
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Old 06-03-18, 02:19 AM
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I have a Montague Paratrooper. A few years ago I picked up a kids mtb which had 24 inch wheels. The wheels slotted straight into the para. It made packing into an ordinary large suitcase so easy.
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Old 06-05-18, 01:38 PM
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I don't have a folder yet, but I'm looking at getting a 24" Tern Node D8/16 or a Tern 20" Link D8 (only because it looks like it would be easier to fly with).

With the 24" do you think it would be possible to only store the folded frame and tires (removed obviously) in the S&S backpack case? I'm thinking maybe I can carry other components in a duffle bag carry on or another suitcase. I'm fortunate enough I get one bag checked in for free on Delta. I wouldn't mind paying a checked bag fee as opposed to an oversized luggage or bicycle fee.
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Old 06-05-18, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
I perfectly see why rest of the world wants 20". But America is different. I have think 24" would be more sucessful here in USA. There would be alot of converts to FB, if 24'er were available more readily. Think all these people are buying expensive bike racks...when they could just fold and throw into the trunk.
Yes, there are some differences between the US and the rest of the world. But I'd guess that one difference is more emphasis on air travel with its restrictive baggage limits vs. train and bus travel with more relaxed baggage rules. And if I'm going by car I just throw my bike in the trunk anyway - taking the wheels off my 700c bike is as quick as folding a Brompton and lets it fit easily in a Corolla trunk with the rear seat still up.

For me (and I suspect for quite a few others) the impetus for getting a folder was that it fit into a normal suitcase so I could take it along on both business and vacation airline trips without extra difficulties or costs. If a 24" wheeled folder (like the promised Helix) would meet that requirement I'd consider it, but wouldn't view the larger wheel size as being of overriding importance.
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Old 06-05-18, 02:50 PM
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One other consideration is the folded-size limitations that some transit systems impose on folding bikes. If you want to take your bike on a public transit system during rush hour, it generally has to be below some threshold length, width, and height. Just something to check out before you commit to a 24" wheel.
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Old 06-05-18, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Quiksetz View Post
With the 24" do you think it would be possible to only store the folded frame and tires (removed obviously) in the S&S backpack case?
I don't see why not. As mentioned above, you may also need to remove the fork (which would likely be easiest with threadless).

With my Bike Friday, I have a large duffel that fits inside the Oyster case. I fill the duffel with my clothes, and carry it in the suitcase in trailer mode when riding. Then, for travelling, I put the bike in the case, and carry the duffel. So far I have just thrown the trailer pieces into the duffel rather than trying to figure out how to also cram them into the suitcase.

That is if I need the trailer parts. When driving with Mom, I just leave the trailer frame at her house and pack the bike in the suitcase.

For a longer international trip, you could probably stuff clothes in with the bike, as long as you pay attention to grease and dirt. Perhaps also bring lots of bread bags.

Actually, I think my duffel was a bike bag that I got with a different folder. But, it stuffs into the bike suitcase well.

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