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My FSIR Spin 3.0

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Old 11-12-18, 03:35 AM
  #51  
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...found a litepro headset in my spares to check closer. Forget what i said about different comes, they have a different approach on that, had that prob before with Gineyea and FnHon headsets. From here i have no idea yet, if it is all mounted correctly, it should work and be without play if tightened. If, under tension, the standover of the fork stem, exceeds the length of the clamping range of the handlepost base mount, there will be play. You might count the rotations of the expander screw from loose on top until all the way in. If you reach the same point with mounted post, it is too long then you have to keep looking for a spacer/washer, a normal headset spacer might do it if it fits into the hole.
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Old 11-18-18, 08:18 PM
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It's really hard to understand what exactly is loose in your headset with your description, but the photo you've uploaded shows the fork stem below the level of the clamping part of the handlepost (where the washer is supposed to fit), so technically you should be able to screw in the cap/nut all the way to get it tight with zero play.

One thing that might be happening is the cones (or crowns? I don't know the correct name) compressing as you tighten the cap/nut, causing the fork stem to become longer and higher than the level of the clamping part of the handlepost. If you had the corrected sized washer and the stem came past above it, then this would be the cause of your problem. But you showed another photo with your oversized copper washer sitting much higher than where it's supposed to be, so if it's still loose with the oversized washer and you've tightened it as much as possible, then this would not be the cause of the play.

When I installed my Litepro headset on my dahon bike, I did have problems with looseness, and that was caused by the compression of the cones, because they're cut with a slit. They weren't fully compressed. All i did to fix this was to tighten the cap/nut until the compression stopped. The instruction manual says to tighten the cap/nut to 8-10Nm. So I took a torque wrench and set it to 10Nm and turned until there was no more compression. Then I backed off and set it to 9Nm.

If you're looking for a copper washer, you could try looking at a dahon dealer for a replacement washer, but they may be too narrow if your fork stem is too long:
https://hollandbikeshop.com/en-gb/bi...g-to-the-left/

Or look on eBay or a large hardware store that might have pipe fitting washers. You might be able to find something with DIN7603A. If the fork stem is too long, then choose a washer with inner diameter larger than the fork stem. The DIN 7603A washers are thick though, so they'll be around 1.5-2mm, but the extra thickness will help if the fork stem is too long, to bring the cap/nut above the surface of the fork stem:
https://www.schrauben-lexikon.de/norm/DIN_7603A.asp


Also, check that the cups are fully inserted into the headset tube. The side photo looks like it is. The lower crown is the wider one with the flange. The upper crown is the narrower one. In your side photo, the cover with the "Litepro" logo, is it sitting flush, or is there something wrong with the fit?

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Old 11-18-18, 08:33 PM
  #53  
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Here is a photo from handsonbike blog,
https://handsonbike.blogspot.com/201...adset-for.html

The cover with the "litepro" logo sits pretty close/flush with the cups. your photo shows your cover sitting very high. This could be due to not compressing the crowns enough. So try tightening the cap/nut to 10Nm and see if it gets lower. I also found that after riding 10, 20, 30km on a newly installed litepro headset, I had to tighten it again 2-3 times as the parts settled in and compressed further.

If you decide to use copper washer DIN 7603A, it's very soft, and if you use a thick one, it might actually start to squish and get thinner, so you might have to tighten the cap/nut after some time.


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Old 11-18-18, 08:55 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by tomtomtom123 View Post
It's really hard to understand what exactly is loose in your headset with your description, but the photo you've uploaded shows the fork stem below the level of the clamping part of the handlepost (where the washer is supposed to fit), so technically you should be able to screw in the cap/nut all the way to get it tight with zero play.

One thing that might be happening is the cones (or crowns? I don't know the correct name) compressing as you tighten the cap/nut, causing the fork stem to become longer and higher than the level of the clamping part of the handlepost. If you had the corrected sized washer and the stem came past above it, then this would be the cause of your problem. But you showed another photo with your oversized copper washer sitting much higher than where it's supposed to be, so if it's still loose with the oversized washer and you've tightened it as much as possible, then this would not be the cause of the play.

When I installed my Litepro headset on my dahon bike, I did have problems with looseness, and that was caused by the compression of the cones, because they're cut with a slit. They weren't fully compressed. All i did to fix this was to tighten the cap/nut until the compression stopped. The instruction manual says to tighten the cap/nut to 8-10Nm. So I took a torque wrench and set it to 10Nm and turned until there was no more compression. Then I backed off and set it to 9Nm.

If you're looking for a copper washer, you could try looking at a dahon dealer for a replacement washer, but they may be too narrow if your fork stem is too long:
https://hollandbikeshop.com/en-gb/bi...g-to-the-left/

Or look on eBay or a large hardware store that might have pipe fitting washers. You might be able to find something with DIN7603A. If the fork stem is too long, then choose a washer with inner diameter larger than the fork stem. The DIN 7603A washers are thick though, so they'll be around 1.5-2mm, but the extra thickness will help if the fork stem is too long, to bring the cap/nut above the surface of the fork stem:
https://www.schrauben-lexikon.de/norm/DIN_7603A.asp


Also, check that the cups are fully inserted into the headset tube. The side photo looks like it is. The lower crown is the wider one with the flange. The upper crown is the narrower one. In your side photo, the cover with the "Litepro" logo, is it sitting flush, or is there something wrong with the fit?
Hi Tom, thanks for your help. Sorry about my poor explanation of my current issues with building this bike, this is actually my first experience and I'm learning as I go. I do have a torque wrench and attempted to tighten the nut to 10nm but there was still significant play as I moved the fork back and forth. Since my last post, I've decided to order another handlepost and I'll have to wait for another week or so. My gut tells me that the T-type that is currently giving me issues is a fake Litepro handlepost and/or poorly made. Besides that, the FNHON handlepost I ordered will fold inward which I recently learned means towards the non-drivetrain side which the Litepro handlepost does not do, and what I wanted initially.

I got my headset installed with help at a bike co-op, so I hope that it was done correctly. I wasn't aware that the crowns were different sizes, according to this blog I've been following for guidance, they are the same size. https://handsonbike.blogspot.com/201...adset-for.html

The cups should be fully inserted. The litepro headset cover does not sit completely flush because of the compression ring that is below it and is in contact with the upper bearing cup. I hope I'm not mixing terminology here, assuming the upper bearing cup means the same as upper crown. I had assumed that it being not fully flush was okay, based on other photos I found such as this one:

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Old 11-18-18, 09:15 PM
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The cover is not supposed to touch the bearing cup, but it's very close. Mine has less than 1mm gap after the crowns are fully compressed.
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Old 11-18-18, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by tomtomtom123 View Post
The cover is not supposed to touch the bearing cup, but it's very close. Mine has less than 1mm gap after the crowns are fully compressed.
I see. I did express shipping on the new handlepost, so I'll report back soon to see if that makes a difference. Thanks again.
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Old 11-19-18, 08:04 AM
  #57  
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(RE PAGE 2 of this thread)

If the goal is a second ring, and If no space for a 2nd Chainring (really?) then put a Patterson Crank in. That will give you 28-45 or whatever Ring you put in (130bcd) plus a virtual second ring 160% larger.
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Old 12-10-18, 08:13 PM
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Just an update on my frame. It's coming along very slowly. I received an FNHON handlepost which fits perfectly onto the steerer tube with zero fuss and the copper washer fits under the headset bolt. Installed Avid SD7 brakes, still figuring out how to dial them in and not be spongy. I also installed the Litepro crank. The 56t chainring is extremely close to the noodle on the rear brake so I'm gonna need to figure that out.

I'm still getting play in the headset/handlepost when I rock the bike back and forth. I've used a torque wrench and tightened it down to about 10nm. Still had play. Tried 15nm, didn't make much of a difference. It's starting to drive me nuts, maybe I'll need to pick up some spacers anyways for this new handlepost to solve it once and for all. Though I'm starting to suspect that something is off about my compression ring that's leaving that gap under the headset cover.

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Old 12-11-18, 04:35 AM
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Does the split crown at the very bottom of the assembly fit snugly around the fork? Does it go all the way to the bottom?

Do the 2 cartridge bearings fit tightly in their cups?

Does the upper split ring fit snugly around the fork?

Does the bolt bottom out on the fork threads (runs out of threads), so that the head of the bolt doesn't touch the washer/handlepost? If so, then you need an extra washer.

Are you sure the play is not just from the flexing of the brakes?
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Old 12-11-18, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tomtomtom123 View Post
Does the split crown at the very bottom of the assembly fit snugly around the fork? Does it go all the way to the bottom?

Do the 2 cartridge bearings fit tightly in their cups?

Does the upper split ring fit snugly around the fork?

Does the bolt bottom out on the fork threads (runs out of threads), so that the head of the bolt doesn't touch the washer/handlepost? If so, then you need an extra washer.

Are you sure the play is not just from the flexing of the brakes?
Thanks for your response Tom, not all these questions ran through my head. The upper split ring does not fit snugly around the fork, I can remove it fairly easily with some tweezers. I've tried to make it fit but it refuses to go any further. It is only able to sit on top of the top cartridge bearing. I can't quite get a good view of whether or not the bolt bottoms out on the fork threads so I'm not sure about that one yet. I don't think the play is coming from the brakes. I've ordered another headset since I'm assuming at this point I received a weird compression ring... will take another few weeks to arrive. The bearings fit tightly in their cups and the split crown at the bottom is snug and is at the bottom soundly.

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Old 12-11-18, 02:53 PM
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What I mean is whether the split ring is shaky loose, or zero tolerance, or friction fit. Even if it goes on easily, with less than maybe 50 microns of tolerance (which is a pretty good fit), since it has a split in it, it should be able to compress itself into a tight fit. If it's none of the other problems, then more likely the bolt might not be threading all the way in. just adding another washer will determine this. If you don't have another exact sized washer, you could always add a few small m3 washers spread around under the bolt head just to give a 1 or 2 mm extra height to see if that changes anything (only for testing the depth). Don't put full torque if you're using small m3 washers spread around, otherwise you might deform the head of the bolt or the bearing surface. Just do something like 3Nm to see if the extra height changes the play. If you really want to test it correctly, and with full torque, you need another full sized washer that matches the diameter of the bolt.

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Old 12-11-18, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tomtomtom123 View Post
What I mean is whether the split ring is shaky loose, or zero tolerance, or friction fit. Even if it goes on easily, with less than maybe 50 microns of tolerance (which is a pretty good fit), since it has a split in it, it should be able to compress itself into a tight fit. If it's none of the other problems, then more likely the bolt might not be threading all the way in. just adding another washer will determine this. If you don't have another exact sized washer, you could always add a few small m3 washers spread around under the bolt head just to give a 1 or 2 mm extra height to see if that changes anything (only for testing the depth). Don't put full torque if you're using small m3 washers spread around, otherwise you might deform the head of the bolt or the bearing surface. Just do something like 3Nm to see if the extra height changes the play. If you really want to test it correctly, and with full torque, you need another full sized washer that matches the diameter of the bolt.
I went to a few LBS to see if any had 1-2mm headset spacers. Managed to get a 2mm and 3mm, no luck with finding 1mm. It seemed to have made no difference so far, or in fact made the play worse. I'll play around with the configuration to see if I get any kind of results... Thanks again for your help.

Edit: I will use this post to publicly make it known that I am an idiot. Long story short, I kept thinking there was no way that the mechanic at the bike co-op made a mistake helping me install this headset. Well, just now I decided to stare at my fork closely for awhile. It turns out this entire time the "compression ring" I've been dealing with was in fact the fork crown race. They were switched and I never questioned it. I just swapped them now, tightened down the compression bolt with only the original copper washer. Zero headset movement. Rookie mistakes. Tom, thanks for dealing with me.

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Old 12-12-18, 10:51 AM
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Thread drift alert!

Originally Posted by L Arnold View Post
(RE PAGE 2 of this thread)...Patterson Crank...
Think a Patterson would fit on an EEZZ D3?
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Old 12-12-18, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs View Post
Thread drift alert!
Think a Patterson would fit on an EEZZ D3?
Never seen a drift alert before.. But anyway, It depends on the BB width. Assuming it is 68mm you should be able to do that TCS. I will take a look at a Jifo that I have and see. Might be a good thing for a Jifo come to think of it. 2 Speed then. EEZZ would become 6 speed. I've got a few units available.. Great question really.
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