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I Threw Away My Bike For A Brompton And Loved It! So Why Am I Ditching That Bike Now?

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I Threw Away My Bike For A Brompton And Loved It! So Why Am I Ditching That Bike Now?

Old 09-01-18, 04:01 AM
  #76  
berlinonaut
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Originally Posted by kidshibuya View Post
Brompton are the same, I cant find anywhere they say that their bikes arent meant for serious riders.
I'd say for the simple fact that it is not true. Just because one out of several 100.000 Brompton riders experiences an amount of rim-, brakepad- and drivetrain-wear that he considers to be not acceptable for him this does not mean that the Brompton would not be suited for serious riders. Possibly he is not the only serious rider out there - just that the others either do not complain about the wear or experience less wear. The experience of the OP seems really uncommon, at least as far as I can judge.

Maybe let's look into what happened: The OP had his Brompton for over two years. In June 2016 he had already gotten rid of his other bikes and ridden about 700 miles on his Bromton in three months. So let's assume it was 2 Years and 3 months of Brompton ownership. This would roughly equal 6300 miles (~10.000 km) of harsh city riding in all weather conditions. With a bit more than normal wear on a two-speed Brompton this could equal 4-6 chains and sprocket-sets at about 20€ each. A total of 80€-120€. A bunch of brake-pads at 10-15€ per pair - let's say 4 sets (front and rear - we do not know the exact number but this would already be a lot). Another 80 - 120€. And then we have the three rims (which are really unsual at this mileage). These are about 30€ per rim and roughly another 30€ to respoke the wheel (if you are not able to do it yourself). Together 180€.
So the total amount of wear is 250€ - 420€ for more than two years of daily transport plus riding for fun over roughly 10.000 kms in total. In fact the miles are what counts, not the time-period. Though I consider the wear of the OP unusual and excessive I'd not consider the cost involved too excessive. It equals ~9,2-15,5€ a month or ~ 25 - 42€ per 1000 km. Especially it seems not to be expensive when compared to public transport, Uber, Taxi or using a own car. Plus "less serious" riders do not even get close to that amount, not even most of the "serious" riders do. Especially I would not expect a single rim to need exchange at that mileage normally.

While financially I do not consider this to be a deseaster I could imagine that the frequency of the exchange of serious parts every couple of weeks or months may be enerving, especially when talking about the rims. Sprockets, chain and brake-pads are all more or less five minute jobs, that can perfectly done at home after work w/o deep mechanical skills and it does not matter too much if you do it a day earlier or later - a blown rim is not. Plus it is easy to store chains, cogs and brake-pads in advance (as you know you'll need them anyway and they do not eat much storage space), with rims this would be a bit unusual.

A while ago I calculated what it may cost to run a Brompton, based on the complaints how expensive they are. I used a upper mid-range bike as a basis (M6RD) and assumed typical wear and a resale after 10 years. I endet up with something like 7,5€ per month, including buying the bike. To compare I calculated the cost of a cheaper folder (again based on experiences that other riders were reporting) and endet up with even slightly more, mainly due to the fact that more core components like bottom brackets and derailleurs had to be replaced during these 10 years or even the whole bike once or twice due to non-availability of spare parts, excessive wear or even broken frames beyond repair plus a relatively low resale value. Both seemed more or less in the same ballpark and pretty neglectible cost to me and it turned out that longterm the Brompton is neither more expensive than other folders nor expensive at all if you look at the TCO instead of the buying price. The ten-year period has a bit of an advantage for the Brompton as it is well within it's lifespan and it preserves it's resale value pretty well over that period (after an initial loss during the first two to four years). Obviously the calculation is a bit artificial cannot be more than a rough estimate but as an indicator it seems valid. Of course not if - as many of us do - you put a lot of bling or upgrade parts on your bike or exchange parts just because you can and want to and not because the original ones are worn.

Regarding the brakes I am really interested how this will turn out. Brakepads seem to be a bit more expensive for disc-brakes plus the amount of people having issues with them in terms of pad-wear, squeeking, brake-power, worn or bent discs is legion in forums. Still at least for heavy amounts of high-speed city-riding in all weather conditions with smallish wheels they should hopefully be better suited. Let's see how it turns out...


Originally Posted by kidshibuya View Post
And let not be naive, the Brompton WC is a marketing campaign to get their bikes seen as sports bikes also. So if Brompton is putting out the message that their bikes are ok to race on why blame a consumer who buy one and rides it hard?
The Brompton Championships were started in spain in about 2005 or 2006 by the spanish importer (or a shop) as a marketing and fun event and were quickly taken over by Brompton themselves and transferred to the UK. It has always been an ironic event, more fun and community than actual racing. The "no-lycra but tie"-policy testifies for that. It has only been in the last years that some of the participants took the race more (and maybe too) serious and the event changed it's character bit by bit. Still I'd not consider it to be a typical "race" with the intention to market the Brompton as a racing bike. Just a fun event to set a contra-point to the prejudice that a clown bike like the Brompton is nothing but a toy.

Plus: If you'd use i.e. a multi-1000$ carbon racer for the purpose of the OP I'd assume maintenance cost would be much higher when riding harshly and quickly in city traffic over 10.000 km w/o caring for using the material adequately in favor of more fun and a faster ride. Even if it would not get stolen... The repair cost of the wheels alone would probably by far outperform the cost of the Brompton repairs.

Last edited by berlinonaut; 09-01-18 at 05:23 AM.
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Old 09-01-18, 07:12 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Abu Mahendra View Post
you keep saying that, but time and time again fail to point out where exactly i err. You are wont to speak in generalities and subjectivities. For example, we are still waiting for you to tell us your weight so we can groud the discussion of tire pressure on measurable inputs, or you do not acknowledge fundamental fluid dynamics (or you are embarrassed about your weightl. That you are reluctant to do this suggest you are unwilling to ground the discussion on more objective grounds. So, go tell it to someone else, Avole, cuz I've got your number.
That would be the royal "we", would it, your highness ?
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Old 09-01-18, 12:26 PM
  #78  
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Your points about the racing marketing are accurate, it is the people racing them that have decided it's a serious thing. The fellow who sold me his 'ridden hard, put away wet' CHPT3 told me he won his race, and felt slightly guilty about it because he's an ex-pro racer. The event is supposed to be a silly bit of fun on tiny bicycles; no one involved thinks they're riding pro-level race bikes.
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Old 09-01-18, 03:47 PM
  #79  
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I think the BWC race is the only Le Mans Start* where contestants run, a distance,
to their folded up bikes , and unfold, open them , , before they can start riding ..

*[ Even the 24 hours of Le Mans Stopped the drivers , at the start,
running across the track and jumping in their cars, parked across the track.]
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Old 09-01-18, 11:52 PM
  #80  
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I think the point to take away is that people should be allowed to criticise products, which was not the case in this thread. It is never acceptable to defend a product by blaming the consumer for buying it. The OP might have bought the wrong bike for his needs, but that doesnt mean that what he experienced arent limitations of the bike. You dont magically cancel out deficiencies by stating the intended use case.

I can imagine someone saying a bromption sucks going up hills, the response would be like no you jerk, the bromption is great, your just an idiot riding it wrong, it says right in the manual its a flat ground bike. Even if that were true, it would still suck going up hills so the criticism would be totally valid.

For me I have bought two wrong bikes, folding bikes arent really for me. I hate their weight, the bespoke parts and the extra maintenance. So because they were wrong for my use case does that mean folding bikes are actually light weight, have all standard parts and are maintenance free?... Yeah no. The criticisms are real no matter what I expected before buying.

Last edited by kidshibuya; 09-01-18 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 09-02-18, 12:07 AM
  #81  
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You can certainly blame consumers for buying certain products, just as you can retailers for selling them. However, this thread started by accusations of the writer being paid for publishing his opinion, without any proof whatsoever, nor apologies afterwards. That is not acceptable.
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Old 09-02-18, 08:34 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by avole View Post
You can certainly blame consumers for buying certain products, just as you can retailers for selling them. However, this thread started by accusations of the writer being paid for publishing his opinion, without any proof whatsoever, nor apologies afterwards. That is not acceptable.
This is correct, which never made sense because the OP seemed to be extolling the virtues of his new derailleur and disc brakes, not Tern bicycles. No one ever apologized to him for calling his story a paid ad.
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Old 09-02-18, 08:49 PM
  #83  
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Welcome Tsuru! Sorry about the petty atmosphere!
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Old 09-02-18, 10:02 PM
  #84  
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Haha yes, petty is indeed the operative word. Quite a, shall we say, *different* atmosphere compared with other forums I frequent.

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
Agree it smells like a paid article. I think anything posted on the net these days is pretty much suspect until proven otherwise, really.
Indulging in a little more (semantic) pettiness... the term used was “smells like a paid article”. This term certainly expresses suspicion, which IMO is perfectly reasonable in this age of stealth marketing, but an outright accusation it is not. No accusation made, no apology required.

Tsuru dropped by and posted he wasn’t paid for the article (along with some other very helpful posts), and I’m happy to take his word for it, but does that really constitute proof beyond doubt? We’re talking about an article and random people on the internet (me included) folks... so nope, no it doesn't.

So, sorry for NOT apologizing, Tsuru

I have a feeling Tsuru is pretty thick skinned though, and won’t give a hoot either way. I really enjoy his writing style and I’m looking forward to a follow up article on the Tern from him, unpaid or otherwise.

It’s just the Internet. Take a chill pill, ya’ll

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Old 09-02-18, 10:05 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
It means if you want a Brompton, you pay for the one made in England with their labor rates. This is true if you want a Bike Friday built in Oregon, too. A lot of people find both unique bicycles to be worth the price, and other people buy different, cheaper bikes.
I do have a Brompton and a BF Tikit, I like them very much, but not because they are "hand made" in the UK and the US.
Actually both of them have some problems with weiding joints and assembling tolerences. I would say they can be made with "better" quality.
So what I mean is you have to pay a lot for "hand made in UK/US", just because you have no choice.

What a Brompton attracks me is basically the design. I bought one because I could afford it.
But if it is made in TaiWan/China, where most of the high quality bikes are made, with a more decent quality and a more reasonable price, it will be no doubt more attractive for me.
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Old 09-03-18, 12:13 AM
  #86  
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Edit: Problem I commented on has been dealt with.

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Old 09-03-18, 03:08 AM
  #87  
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My 2p...

Been away from bikeforums for a number of years and came back recently.

It has changed.

I don't know what's happened but it's like the world finally caught up with the little folding bikes subforum.

Unnecessary arguments, some abuse, plain nastiness.

It has become unpleasant and if unchecked, will certainly drive down traffic as folks leave/stay away.

There are other outlets for this kind of behaviour, not here.
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Old 09-03-18, 08:08 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Tsuru View Post
That's awesome! Where did you get the rims? Sounds like a great solution.
SJS Cycles in the UK. They ship everywhere.
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Old 09-04-18, 08:05 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by keke View Post
My 2p...

Been away from bikeforums for a number of years and came back recently.

It has changed.

I don't know what's happened but it's like the world finally caught up with the little folding bikes subforum.

Unnecessary arguments, some abuse, plain nastiness.

It has become unpleasant and if unchecked, will certainly drive down traffic as folks leave/stay away.

There are other outlets for this kind of behaviour, not here.
Honestly, I used to hang in the road bike subforums years ago. The epic battles over Campy v. Shimano would go on for days, nay, WEEKS! I can't imagine what fights went down when disc brakes were added to the mix with racers. Tribalism is tribalism, fanboyz are fanboyz, bikes, tech, games, politics, etc, Folding bikes would be no different. You should've seen some of the crap I got in the Brompton FB group where my little review was posted. Ho' boy.
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Old 09-04-18, 10:40 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Tsuru View Post
Honestly, I used to hang in the road bike subforums years ago. The epic battles over Campy v. Shimano would go on for days, nay, WEEKS! I can't imagine what fights went down when disc brakes were added to the mix with racers. Tribalism is tribalism, fanboyz are fanboyz, bikes, tech, games, politics, etc, Folding bikes would be no different. You should've seen some of the crap I got in the Brompton FB group where my little review was posted. Ho' boy.
Differences of opinion about folding bikes has always been the norm here, a folding bike forum without it would be useless. But a couple years ago a weird undercurrent of racial crap starting seeping in, which is WAY out of bounds for this place. The most recent example in this thread has been deleted, so apologies if the current conversation is missing pieces for you now.
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Old 09-04-18, 11:03 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
Differences of opinion about folding bikes has always been the norm here, a folding bike forum without it would be useless. But a couple years ago a weird undercurrent of racial crap starting seeping in, which is WAY out of bounds for this place. The most recent example in this thread has been deleted, so apologies if the current conversation is missing pieces for you now.
Oh wow. I had no idea. That's crazy! It's bikes, for goodness sake. Well, good job moderating then and cheers, keep riding!
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Old 09-04-18, 11:06 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
Haha yes, petty is indeed the operative word. Quite a, shall we say, *different* atmosphere compared with other forums I frequent.



Indulging in a little more (semantic) pettiness... the term used was “smells like a paid article”. This term certainly expresses suspicion, which IMO is perfectly reasonable in this age of stealth marketing, but an outright accusation it is not. No accusation made, no apology required.

Tsuru dropped by and posted he wasn’t paid for the article (along with some other very helpful posts), and I’m happy to take his word for it, but does that really constitute proof beyond doubt? We’re talking about an article and random people on the internet (me included) folks... so nope, no it doesn't.

So, sorry for NOT apologizing, Tsuru

I have a feeling Tsuru is pretty thick skinned though, and won’t give a hoot either way. I really enjoy his writing style and I’m looking forward to a follow up article on the Tern from him, unpaid or otherwise.

It’s just the Internet. Take a chill pill, ya’ll
Honestly, I kind of took it as a compliment that ya'll though my little review was worth getting paid over. lol
I write for my own pleasure and hopefully to give someone else a different or new point of view on something, but never too seriously... after all, life is way too short.
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Old 09-04-18, 12:12 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by berlinonaut View Post
Me: "They are made for tweed coat London commutes where one is like to mix a train ride in with their morning shuffle to work."

it seems pretty clear that he has never been to London (or in touch with a relevant amount of Brompton riders) - his prejudices let him draw a picture of himself as a "true rider" while all the others are kind of gently playing children.
Hey Berinonaut, was telling my partner about this thread and went back to the beginning to see where it went awry and mods got involved... then saw this comment about my article.

I'd like to clarify if I may. The "tweed coat London commutes" was not mean to be taken seriously or meant to be mean toward anyone. It's more of a reference to a) the Brompton World Championships where you have to wear a sport jacket and b) all the British murder mystery shows we watch, specifically Midsomer Murders and the classic British country side tweed aesthetic.

The rest of the line is really about Brompton's promotion of multi-modal commuting in places like London and NYC that, by owning a bike that folds so small, a Bromptoneer is quite capable of doing.

Anyways, hope that clears that up! cheers!
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Old 09-04-18, 04:37 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by GTA View Post
I do have a Brompton and a BF Tikit, I like them very much, but not because they are "hand made" in the UK and the US.
Actually both of them have some problems with weiding joints and assembling tolerences. I would say they can be made with "better" quality.
So what I mean is you have to pay a lot for "hand made
I have been saying here this for years. . . .

Last edited by BillyD; 09-05-18 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 09-04-18, 05:04 PM
  #95  
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Abu, it is in your mind. If you can find me a bike that better meets my needs, I would get it. Japanese cars are excellent and I have one. If Koreans start to make better vehicles, I would get one of theirs. I own a Brompton because I can quickly pack it down for car trunk, bus or plane. I do think racism is an insidious thing and effects are as strong on its targets, which make it so insidious. Look into your self.
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Old 09-04-18, 05:18 PM
  #96  
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Cool, I'll slide back to not being around here. The moderators deleted the last bizarre racial comment from that guy, but it's just going to keep happening. This forum is toxic and apparently not fixable. Good luck.
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Old 09-04-18, 06:26 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
Cool, I'll slide back to not being around here. The moderators deleted the last bizarre racial comment from that guy, but it's just going to keep happening. This forum is toxic and apparently not fixable. Good luck.
I've had him muted for months now and wish there was a way to "mute" when people quote "that guy". I'd be happy to not see his comments at all. Forum is a nicer place that way. Just mute him already.
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Old 09-04-18, 09:00 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
I've had him muted for months now and wish there was a way to "mute" when people quote "that guy". I'd be happy to not see his comments at all. Forum is a nicer place that way. Just mute him already.
It's sad that were getting to a breaking point,...
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Old 09-04-18, 09:55 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by tds101 View Post
It's sad that were getting to a breaking point,...
I can't do the mute thing. I'll just feel like there's this hidden creepiness going on around me, and who needs it? Screw it, I found another folder forum to talk on, and y'all can always come say hi on Twitter @ JoeOfTheNorth
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Old 09-05-18, 01:09 AM
  #100  
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What's the name of the forum? I'm a long-time poster here, but reaching a limit myself
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