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Show me your Raleigh 20?

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Show me your Raleigh 20?

Old 06-27-23, 01:14 AM
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@Cyclespanner: Glancing through your photos, I was struck by the practical beauty of the trailer, and wondered how you built it, and how it's 'hitched'?
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Old 06-27-23, 04:04 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by denkoz20
@Cyclespanner: Glancing through your photos, I was struck by the practical beauty of the trailer, and wondered how you built it, and how it's 'hitched'?
Thanks for your compliment about my trailer, which I described in detail on another forum
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/di.../#post-6953081
Try accessing that; if you can't, let me know and I'll do what I can to help.
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Old 07-02-23, 03:24 AM
  #103  
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True reCycling

That trailer is fantastic! It took me a few days to find the time to really look at the details, and I can't say I understand exactly how the hitch works, but I applaud the vision, ability and execution. Well done.
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Old 07-02-23, 04:05 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by denkoz20
That trailer is fantastic! It took me a few days to find the time to really look at the details, and I can't say I understand exactly how the hitch works, but I applaud the vision, ability and execution. Well done.
Thanks for the compliment

I combined several features of others online....nothing is ever new!

The hitch is a bottom bracket connected to a pedal shaft, held in place by a 'quick release' cotter-pin I made.
So far it all works fine.

The entire assembly can 'instantly' be removed at the pneumatic connections and fitted to another bike similarlly, cunningly adapted; or separated at the hitch, the hitch then swings up and clips to the rack.

Vertical motion is at the cycle end; horizontal motion is provided by the bottom bracket. It works a charm.

Had to buy the pneumatic fittings, but the rest was made from 'skip finds'.
A pal did the brazing free, so total cost around £20.

Last edited by Cyclespanner; 07-02-23 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 07-06-23, 09:37 AM
  #105  
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Help!

I am flummoxed! I think I can finally post photos, so I'll refer to one of them here.
I finally got back to the states and my newly acquired Twenty, eager to replace the straight bolt connecting the two frame halves with the locking key bolt I sourced on eBay uk with the help of this forum. Thanks again. The bike, as you'll see, is in amazing shape, the tires, which I think must be original, can't have been ridden more than 200 miles. Crank with heron profiles, original cotter pins, Sturmey Archer hub transmission shifting smoothly, delightful rear fender decal, the saddle is amazingly comfy--was planning to put a brooks on, but for now (it's really my wife's bike, so she'll have the final say) I'm leaving it as is. The brake pads, which were also original and hard as bricks, I've replaced, and the brakes are...functional.

But here's the thing: The connecting bolt, the head of which is pictured below, does not retract from the upper plate. It swivels happily where it is, but pulls the plate up with it when unscrewed. The only way to 'fold' the folder is to first completely remove the bottom 'swivel' bolt, then unbolt the two halves by unscrewing the top bolt, which comes out easily from the bottom, but as I said stays where it is in the top plate. There is a washer surrounding it inset into the top plate which turns with it, and maybe that is keeping it from engaging the threads of the top plate? but honestly it seems to be designed to turn where it is. Was there maybe a generation of folder made to work like this, so you could only break it down to move it and otherwise use it as a fixed-frame? The locking key fits perfectly into the threads of the bottom plate.

I know it might be helpful to see the upper plate from the bottom, but I've had it apart all morning and don't have the gumption to go through the procedure again (the top bolt is 9/16 in, the bottom swivel bolt nut 15mm!). Putting it together again is a real hassle with only two ha





nds. I don't even know how often I would want/need to 'fold' it, but it is its raison d'Ítre. Thoughts, solutions, sympathy all appreciated. d
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Old 07-06-23, 09:46 AM
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oops...left out a picture...

....and sent another one twice. Here's the rear decal. I don't know if I made clear that, because the upper bolt can only swivel, when you unscrew the bolt the two plates begin to separate only on one end, which of course creates a locking tension in the whole set up and is certainly not in the designer's best interests!
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Old 07-06-23, 05:23 PM
  #107  
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Google 'Sheldon Brown's Raleigh Twenty Bicycle Page'.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/raleigh-twenty.html

Scroll down to hinge section....
That's the best descriptor I can find at the moment.
Hope it helps.
(Just read this and I think it should point you in the right direction).

I have no experience with a folder, but you seem to have a 'captive' bolt.
That should knock out with a sharp blow.
I'm sure the original 'lever' type bolt would also be a captive item, so it doesn't get lost in transit when the bike is transported.

Good luck sorting this issue, please let us know how you get on.
If you appreciate others contributions it would be a courtesy to hit the 'like' button.

Last edited by Cyclespanner; 07-07-23 at 12:20 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 07-06-23, 05:34 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by denkoz20
But here's the thing: The connecting bolt, the head of which is pictured below, does not retract from the upper plate. It swivels happily where it is, but pulls the plate up with it when unscrewed. The only way to 'fold' the folder is to first completely remove the bottom 'swivel' bolt, then unbolt the two halves by unscrewing the top bolt, which comes out easily from the bottom, but as I said stays where it is in the top plate. There is a washer surrounding it inset into the top plate which turns with it, and maybe that is keeping it from engaging the threads of the top plate? but honestly it seems to be designed to turn where it is. Was there maybe a generation of folder made to work like this, so you could only break it down to move it and otherwise use it as a fixed-frame? The locking key fits perfectly into the threads of the bottom plate.

I know it might be helpful to see the upper plate from the bottom, but I've had it apart all morning and don't have the gumption to go through the procedure again (the top bolt is 9/16 in, the bottom swivel bolt nut 15mm!). Putting it together again is a real hassle with only two ha
It has been a long time since I had an R20, but if memory serves, it should fit through the top plate and screw into the bottom and screw out. End of story, at least as I remember. Can you screw it into the bottom plate and fully engage it in the bottom plate? I can not really understand the issue.
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Old 07-12-23, 01:51 PM
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something happened to my last post...

...but I had replied that, thanks to Cyclespanner I 'tapped' the reluctant bolt out, and it was rusted solid together with a 'sleeve' which was fixed in a bracket brazed into place in the top plate of the hinge. My predecessor, I believe, had tried hard to turn the bolt and only succeeded in breaking the bracket, which allowed the sleeve/bolt unit to turn in place but not back out of the frame (that part of the braze held until I knocked the bolt/sleeve out):


rusted bolt/sleeve, broken bracket

top plate of hinge with sleeve broken out

After a night in the garage with penetrating oil working its way in, I managed to unscrew the bolt. I have just 'placed' the bracket in its spot, and might have someone who can do a spot weld fix the bracket/sleeve back in place, but I was finally able to fold the bike and fix it with the locking key as originally intended.

This is probably way more information than anyone needed, but it's my way of thanking those who helped me along. Voila the bolt in place!


the assembly will hold because of pressure, but the broken bracket (the greenish bit under the locking key) will have to be brazed on at some point.
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Old 07-12-23, 02:13 PM
  #110  
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Well done!

If you examine PhilFo's set-up you will notice the lever points forward (correctly-this is a safety feature, if you get my drift).
The lever has two nuts which provide suitable adjustment; the bottom nut positioned to allow the correct angle, the other becomes a locking nut.
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Old 07-12-23, 05:07 PM
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Aha!

Originally Posted by Cyclespanner
Well done!

If you examine PhilFo's set-up you will notice the lever points forward (correctly-this is a safety feature, if you get my drift).
The lever has two nuts which provide suitable adjustment; the bottom nut positioned to allow the correct angle, the other becomes a locking nut.
Drift most definitely got, thanks
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Old 02-24-24, 07:14 AM
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Cyclespanner, your Triumph Twenty is historically important. It's from the very first batch of Raleigh Twentys ever made. You'll find the Sturmey hub date stamp to be 1967 or 1968 if the hub is original. I'm a very serious collector and have only ever seen half a dozen or so, and I own two of those. There are differences to all later versions - mainly no steering stop welded to the back of the head tube just above the lower headset cup. Only the '67-'68 Triumphs have this omission. Yours looks to be in amazing original condition. The Twenty was launched as a Triumph for internal political reasons at Raleigh. It was a 100% parts bin special, using mostly parts from the RSW, and rims, tyres and mudguards from the Raleigh Rodeo kids' bike. The only investment Raleigh needed was a frame jig and transfers. The early story of the Twenty is really interesting, and it went on to be Raleigh's best selling model ever, with 2.2M produced '67-'84. You have one of the very first few. Guard that bike with your life!

Last edited by David Palk; 02-24-24 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 02-24-24, 03:14 PM
  #113  
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Hi David, welcome to the forum/thread.

Your news about my Triumph 20 is very welcome, dare I say exciting?
Clearly you are a man that knows his 20's.

I only acquired mine over the last 12 months or so, almost by accident.
As you point out, Raleigh took advantage of their parts bins, as they were accustomed to doing with a wide range of models.

The more I examined a '20' the more the layout makes sense. Of course there was nothing new; many cycles made use of what was then referred to as 'Cross Frame's', when 'safety' bicycles began to develop. As we know, the diamond frame eventually became the standardised option.

It would be great to pick your brains on the subject of the '20's subtleties. Please PM me if you wish to develop a dialogue.
No indication where you are based, but I guess the UK?

Last edited by Cyclespanner; 02-24-24 at 03:16 PM. Reason: Text changes
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Old 02-24-24, 05:02 PM
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Hello. I'm in southern England. I've been a very serious Twenty enthusiast for over ten years. I have something like thirty of them, including two "First Batch" Triumphs like yours. One has a '67 hub date and the other is '68. My earliest Raleigh branded one is dated '69. I also have a '69 BSA. Those early ones have some unique frame details. One of my "First Batch" Triumphs is in a similar condition to yours, and the other is even cleaner with zero rust. I collect rare variants in original condition, and I've done many high-performance conversions which I've ridden with sporting cycling clubs. Those entail BSA BB conversion, fork offset reduction and A-Headset conversion. A Twenty frame converted like that, and fitted with modern high-end parts, performs just as well as the best modern steel road bike. I've picked up some very interesting historical info on the Twenty over the years which you won't find published anywhere - yet. I'd love to chat but can't PM until I've made more than ten posts. I'll see if I can make another eight posts tomorrow and will then PM. Where are you? More importantly, what's the hub date on your Triumph?!!!
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Old 02-24-24, 05:36 PM
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As you can see on my bio, I'm in Yorkshire.
Your collected '20' data will be of indulgent interest to me.
I'll check the Triumph hub date tomorrow (can't understand why I haven't already recorded that).
My interests are the originally configured '20's and have to admit the 'pimped' ones leave me cold.
It is my opinion, if you want a higher spec bike....get one!
My trouble is, I got too many bikes all at once, all of which need at the very least a thorough strip, clean and lube job, which if done properly is time consuming.
I look forward to sharing this common interest with you.
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Old 02-24-24, 05:51 PM
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David, a quick google search reveals you to be a serious cycling enthusiast....I;m flattered to make your acquaintance,
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Old 02-25-24, 08:55 AM
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I am a cycling enthusiast, but the only thing I'm serious about is having fun, and the Raleigh Twenty has crtainly ticked that box over the last ten years or so.

You're the other end of the country! Sorry, I should have noticed that. Well, we can certainly correspond. I'm keen to associate with any student of cycling history and worthy custodian of important artefacts. You now have an important artefact, and I'm sure you'll be a very worthy custodian. Even the "ordinary" Twentys are great fun, and it's important that a good selection of those should be conserved. It's even better if they continue to be used, and it looks like you're doing that as well.

I would never "pimp" a rare or fine-original example. I have a large stock of worthless "scrapper" Twenty frames to choose from for that. The special originals in my collection are carefully conserved and maintained to factory spec. I even make sure to fit original Raleigh branded inner tubes! They're just ornaments and never ridden. My sporting Twenty conversions are something completely different - serious performance machines, thoughtfully engineered to compete on equal terms with very expensive "high-end" mainstream modern alternatives, and I've proven their worth by using them with my local sporting cycling club and on long CTC rides. Sadly my cycle racing participation ended before the R20 obsession began, otherwise I'd definitely have raced Raleigh Twentys in local time trials. Sunday morning club runs can be very tough rides, and I've done plenty of those on suitably modified Twentys, plus very long touring day-rides with the CTC. I even set my club's unofficial road speed record on a Twenty (1974 Triumph); a Garmin-verified 53.1 mph down a notorious descent in the South Downs. "White knuckle ride" is a gross understatement!!! I also won a CTC skills competition on a Twenty. That involved a freewheeling distance competition, advance estimation of my time for riding back up the hill, and a "slow race" trackstand comp. A Twenty took me to victory in all three elements of the comp. All of this is super fun when everone else is on conventional "big wheel" diamond-framed machines bought from regular bike shops at far higher cost. I've built fixed-wheel "road bike" Raleigh Twentys (my favourite format, as I'm a keen fixed rider), tourers, and a Shimano Ultegra 1x10 equipped sportive machine. All feature top-end modern parts and all but one retain their original paint and transfers. The one that's lost its original finish has been re-painted by me in fake rust, as seen on "rat look" customised VW Beetles. The frame looks like it has spent years chained to the wrong end of the pier, but all components are clean and fresh. That bike is a real favourite. It's a minimalist fixie and weighs 18 lbs.

The reason I've taken this highly unconventional route to my everyday bicycles is that through the 2000s I worked in a responsible position for a pioneer carbon-fibre race bike brand based in Germany. I was on the technical and marketing side of things. My role was primarily to orchestrate the convincing of mostly overweight middle-aged dentists, accountants and lawyers across Europe, the US and Australia, that they REALLY, REALLY NEEDED a professional-level race bike weighing 14 lbs and costing £6K or more, just to upstage their riding buddies. There were many serious and worthy users of the bikes including a couple of pro teams that we supported, but our brand would not have existed without the BS luxury goods market for exotic bicycles bought by wealthy wannabes who would never do them justice. Our product range was cutting-edge and high quality, but the business model was all BS. After leaving that line of work but still being a very active club cyclist, my reaction against the cycle industry's marketing BS was to build "superbikes" based on scrap "shopping bike" frames with their original patinated paint, I'm a very mischievous pi55-taker, and I like to expose hypocrisy, snobbery, and the stupidity of following marketing messages or industry sales trends. I've completed about a dozen such conversions now, and have every aspect completely dialled. Most remain in my own collection but three or four were commissions for curious or likeminded friends. The sporting conversions then led me into the history of the thing, some of which I was familiar with, having grown up amongst the Choppers and Grifters owned by childhood friends. I was already a keen cycling historian when I began tinkering with Twentys, being a seasoned V-CC member and avid collector, restorer and rider of British clubman's lightweights from just either side of WWII. So, today I have a few very nice original, and/or rare and interesting, examples of the Raleigh Twenty (which was the best ever selling model from the world's greatest cycle marque) that I could never bear to modify.

The Twenty has real historical significance, yet very few enthusiasts take any interest at all - the Twenty having been totally eclipsed by its very close cousin, the rather awful Raleigh Chopper, and its original influence, the woefully under-developed F-Frame Moulton of the early sixties, with its multiple design flaws. Both of these "classics" have true cult status and a very strong following today, whilst the Twenty remains almost completely overlooked and forgotten. Even the closely related but inferior RSW 16 and Grifter are now garnering enthusiastic interest. We all need to plug the Twenty and enhance its current status. Or perhaps not, to keep them cheap!

My latest R20 project, ongoing and nearly completed, is to blend historic and competitive elements into a machine as if converted for time-trial racing in 1968. I've taken a very early (definitely pre-'70, but I'm saying '68) R20 frame and equipped it with the finest competition components from 1968. It will be 100% period-correct and in fine original condition, with clean factory-finish on the frame and all components. I almost certainly now have the only R20 equipped with NOS Campagnolo Nuovo Record components! It will perform just as well as the most sought after lightweight racing machines from the late sixties. Its first outing will be the V-CC Hampshire Lightweights Group's initial ride of the '24 season, early next month. I really must get it completed!!! Other "historic competition" R20 builds may well follow. Oh, and I'm very keen to do an F-Frame Moulton in the same vein, with all the inherent faults engineered out, but as if done by a club cyclist in the mid-sixties for racing use at the time. Moulton did make their own competition versions at the time of course, but these retained the faults of the standard machines on which they were based. I'm sure that I can do better, and hindsight really is the very best development engineer! Old bikes are never ending fun - especially the Twenty which is still dirt cheap and very plentiful. Many of mine were free of charge, and people who know I have an interest keep "donating" sad and rusty unwanted examples. There always has to be a project and I always have to be taking the pi55!!!

Anyhow, why don't you PM me and include your email address? Then I don't have to come up with seven more posts on a forum that I wouldn't normally use. I only joined in the first place to notify you of the significance of that very special Triumph when I found the thread in a Google search. If I didn't already have a couple of the "First Batch" Triumphs myself I'd be seriously envious of what you have there! I'm very happy to continue corresponding, but email is better for me. I NEED to know that hub date - and hope that my 9-67 remains the earliest! We'll also have to compare frame numbers, which are a bit of a mystery from that period. I look forward to chatting...
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