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TERN Verge P9 eko

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TERN Verge P9 eko

Old 04-05-24, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
Though I love my 2X (infrequent) folder, big-wheel bikes serve at least two purposes: a) Have racer-high gearing without a massive chainring with poor ground clearance or an internal hub gear to get an overdrive for small wheels; My 20" wheels will do 85 gear inches on 50-11, but that won't do for a racer or fast recreational rider. And b) Off-road traction in soft stuff. Oh and c) Great road racers have an aesthetic quality to them that my folder will never match.
I don't ride quality folders to go FAST. I ride them for EFFICIENCY. A 21lb Folder like the X10 will take far less out of your legs. Over a given distance and speed. Than some heavy inefficient bike. ESPECIALLY on hills. I had cheaper folders. It was like trying to ride a tank.

So it's not about MATCHING a racing bike. A supreme quality folder like the verges can climb any hill without ever having to come off the saddle. This is where the smaller wheels rule.

I've never had to once come off the saddle on the X10 And X11. They are supreme climbers. I will sacrifice some aesthetics and top end speed for that any day.

The Verge X range is about comfort, efficiency and impressive speed for a small bike. And ZERO back and shoulder neck pain.

Oh yes. Racing bikes might be fast. But god damn they're uncomfortable. Hunching over those drops no thankyou. I'm cruising along at 13 to 15 miles an hour most of the time. On a gorgeous Ergon ST gel saddle. That feels like you are sitting on your couch. But IF I'm in that mood. If the speed demon of old in me surfaces. The X factor kicks in. And I can haul ass. And blow a few egos.

That's What it's about. Ive had roadies asking me about the X11 and X10 many a time They keep looking over their shoulder. Wondering why you are still there. You pass them on a climb. Yeah the most fragile ego in the world is a roadie all kitted out in his spandex and an old boy like me on a bike half the size of his is living with him. WHEN I'm in that mood.

Last edited by Sentinel1; 04-05-24 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 04-05-24, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Sentinel1
A supreme quality folder like the verges can climb any hill without ever having to come off the saddle. This is where the smaller wheels rule.
I've never had to once come off the saddle on the X10 And X11. They are supreme climbers. I will sacrifice some aesthetics and top end speed for that any day.
The Verge X range is about comfort, efficiency and impressive speed for a small bike. And ZERO back and shoulder neck pain.
So, last year, a mate and I challenged ourselves; we had to climb that rocky hill near Wotton Under Edge - 19% to 20% with a 90deg corner and on 650B 52mm wide tyres, with 36-46 ratio, I could not crack it nor could my mate who is now 60 and used to race in EU MTB XC series... I finally cracked it with a 32-46T setup.
When racing XC near Marlborough, there was a very steep hill again in the 20% region and the only people who climbed it, grinding were on 29ers with 28/52 setup...

I would love to see you do that on your tern, A supreme quality folder ... are supreme climbers. I would bring the popcorn...
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Old 04-05-24, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Sentinel1
I don't ride quality folders to go FAST. I ride them for EFFICIENCY. A 21lb Folder like the X10 will take far less out of your legs. Over a given distance and speed. Than some heavy inefficient bike. ESPECIALLY on hills. I had cheaper folders. It was like trying to ride a tank.

So it's not about MATCHING a racing bike. A supreme quality folder like the verges can climb any hill without ever having to come off the saddle. This is where the smaller wheels rule.

I've never had to once come off the saddle on the X10 And X11. They are supreme climbers. I will sacrifice some aesthetics and top end speed for that any day.

The Verge X range is about comfort, efficiency and impressive speed for a small bike. And ZERO back and shoulder neck pain.

Oh yes. Racing bikes might be fast. But god damn they're uncomfortable. Hunching over those drops no thankyou. I'm cruising along at 13 to 15 miles an hour most of the time. On a gorgeous Ergon ST gel saddle. That feels like you are sitting on your couch. But IF I'm in that mood. If the speed demon of old in me surfaces. The X factor kicks in. And I can haul ass. And blow a few egos.

That's What it's about. Ive had roadies asking me about the X11 and X10 many a time They keep looking over their shoulder. Wondering why you are still there. You pass them on a climb. Yeah the most fragile ego in the world is a roadie all kitted out in his spandex and an old boy like me on a bike half the size of his is living with him. WHEN I'm in that mood.
All this stupidity you post about helmets, knee and elbow pads, safety, etc, and NOW you claim it's not about "speed", when all you've been doing has been bragging/shilling about the "premium" build quality, but most importantly, about the "SPEED" of your defective folder. What a hypocrite you truly are...
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Old 04-05-24, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by tds101
All this stupidity you post about helmets, knee and elbow pads, safety, etc, and NOW you claim it's not about "speed", when all you've been doing has been bragging/shilling about the "premium" build quality, but most importantly, about the "SPEED" of your defective folder. What a hypocrite you truly are...
I am whatever you want to think. I don't mince my words and I'm not Palling up to anyone on here. I tell it like it is. Speed is there IF I want it. Comfort and efficiency is why I ride two of the 3 greatest folders ever made. The top 3 holy grail folders of ALLTIME are as follows IMO.

TERN VERGE X11----2017
TERN VERGE X10----2013
DAHON MU SL---2011

Those are the top 3 in folding bike history as far as I'm concerned. They don't only meet my criteria for a great bike. They surpass it.
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Old 04-05-24, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Sentinel1
I am whatever you want to think. I don't mince my words and I'm not Palling up to anyone on here. I tell it like it is. Speed is there IF I want it. Comfort and efficiency is why I ride two of the 3 greatest folders ever made. The top 3 holy grail folders of ALLTIME are as follows IMO.

TERN VERGE X11----2017
TERN VERGE X10----2013
DAHON MU SL---2011

Those are the top 3 in folding bike history as far as I'm concerned. They don't only meet my criteria for a great bike. They surpass it.
They seem expensive.
They must cost a lot of Shillings.
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Old 04-05-24, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Fentuz
So, last year, a mate and I challenged ourselves; we had to climb that rocky hill near Wotton Under Edge - 19% to 20% with a 90deg corner and on 650B 52mm wide tyres, with 36-46 ratio, I could not crack it nor could my mate who is now 60 and used to race in EU MTB XC series... I finally cracked it with a 32-46T setup.
When racing XC near Marlborough, there was a very steep hill again in the 20% region and the only people who climbed it, grinding were on 29ers with 28/52 setup...

I would love to see you do that on your tern, A supreme quality folder ... are supreme climbers. I would bring the popcorn...
So you did that on full sized wheels. And you think I couldn't do that on my X10.? I've got 20lbs to lose. And when I do. I'm going to start filming my rides and uploading footage to my YouTube channel. When I do I will give you the link. Then you just might come to understand why I hold the Verge X bikes in such high esteem. You just might. Many of the hills I float up in London you won't see many even attempt. They will re-route their journey to avoid them. Even if it means having to ride another two miles longer.

Last edited by Sentinel1; 04-05-24 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 04-05-24, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse
They seem expensive.
They must cost a lot of Shillings.
Worth every penny. And they make you wanna ride..Fuel the passion.
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Old 04-05-24, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Sentinel1
I am whatever you want to think. I don't mince my words and I'm not Palling up to anyone on here. I tell it like it is. Speed is there IF I want it. Comfort and efficiency is why I ride two of the 3 greatest folders ever made. The top 3 holy grail folders of ALLTIME are as follows IMO.

TERN VERGE X11----2017
TERN VERGE X10----2013
DAHON MU SL---2011

Those are the top 3 in folding bike history as far as I'm concerned. They don't only meet my criteria for a great bike. They surpass it.
Originally Posted by Sentinel1
So you did that on full sized wheels. And you think I couldn't do that on my X10.? I've got 20lbs to lose. And when I do. I'm going to start filming my rides and uploading footage to my YouTube channel. When I do I will give you the link. Then you just might come to understand why I hold the Verge X bikes in such high esteem. You just might. Many of the hills I float up in London you won't see many even attempt. They will re-route their journey to avoid them. Even if it means having to ride another two miles longer.
Originally Posted by Sentinel1
Worth every penny. And they make you wanna ride..Fuel the passion.
A total crock of crap... Trump wouldn't even sell you a Bible. All the constant flip flopping, all because the bikes you have you overpaid, and all are defective. Then constantly harping on and on about speed,all whilst not caring about speed? Total, nonsensical drivel. And all because of your need to justify overpaying for faulty bicycles. Keep on shillin' homey!
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Old 04-05-24, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Sentinel1
I've got 20lbs to lose. And when I do. I'm going to start filming my rides and uploading footage to my YouTube channel. When I do I will give you the link.
This is actually starting to become slightly entertaining. Can't wait to see the video.
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Old 04-05-24, 04:33 PM
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The last guy advertising for his company here got booted.

At least he had a lot of really good information
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Old 04-05-24, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Sentinel1
I don't ride quality folders to go FAST. I ride them for EFFICIENCY. A 21lb Folder like the X10 will take far less out of your legs. Over a given distance and speed. Than some heavy inefficient bike. ESPECIALLY on hills. I had cheaper folders. It was like trying to ride a tank.

So it's not about MATCHING a racing bike. A supreme quality folder like the verges can climb any hill without ever having to come off the saddle. This is where the smaller wheels rule.

I've never had to once come off the saddle on the X10 And X11. They are supreme climbers. I will sacrifice some aesthetics and top end speed for that any day.

The Verge X range is about comfort, efficiency and impressive speed for a small bike. And ZERO back and shoulder neck pain.

Oh yes. Racing bikes might be fast. But god damn they're uncomfortable. Hunching over those drops no thankyou. I'm cruising along at 13 to 15 miles an hour most of the time. On a gorgeous Ergon ST gel saddle. That feels like you are sitting on your couch. But IF I'm in that mood. If the speed demon of old in me surfaces. The X factor kicks in. And I can haul ass. And blow a few egos.

That's What it's about. Ive had roadies asking me about the X11 and X10 many a time They keep looking over their shoulder. Wondering why you are still there. You pass them on a climb. Yeah the most fragile ego in the world is a roadie all kitted out in his spandex and an old boy like me on a bike half the size of his is living with him. WHEN I'm in that mood.
So, no question, smaller wheels do have less rotational inertia than larger wheels, given the same rim and tire size, and lighter rims and tires even more so. However, this matters most in dynamic acceleration. Let me analogize: A heavy car has higher fuel consumption than a light car in city driving, due to all the acceleration and deceleration. But at a steady highway speed, there is far less difference, in fact the larger car may even have lower fuel consumption if it is much more aerodynamic and the speeds are high enough for that to be a factor. Similarly, less wheel rotating inertia comes most into play when accelerating that wheel. Yes, better sprints off the line. But while climbing, it will have greater advantage when climbing out of the saddle, because when charted, the crank speed will have much more significant "pulses", i.e., varation in speed, so is constantly having to be reaccelerated, versus sitting on the saddle and spinning up the hill, where rotating inertia makes less of a difference.

Discuss.
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Old 04-05-24, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
So, no question, smaller wheels do have less rotational inertia than larger wheels, given the same rim and tire size, and lighter rims and tires even more so. However, this matters most in dynamic acceleration. Let me analogize: A heavy car has higher fuel consumption than a light car in city driving, due to all the acceleration and deceleration. But at a steady highway speed, there is far less difference, in fact the larger car may even have lower fuel consumption if it is much more aerodynamic and the speeds are high enough for that to be a factor. Similarly, less wheel rotating inertia comes most into play when accelerating that wheel. Yes, better sprints off the line. But while climbing, it will have greater advantage when climbing out of the saddle, because when charted, the crank speed will have much more significant "pulses", i.e., varation in speed, so is constantly having to be reaccelerated, versus sitting on the saddle and spinning up the hill, where rotating inertia makes less of a difference.

Discuss.
Yep!
Small and/or light wheels are great for acceleration.
Once you're climbing, it's all about weight, not wheel diameter.
If it did, all racers would be riding 16" wheels in the climb.
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Old 04-05-24, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse
Yep!
Small and/or light wheels are great for acceleration.
Once you're climbing, it's all about weight, not wheel diameter.
If it did, all racers would be riding 16" wheels in the climb.
All racers want to be riding smaller wheels for lower air drag if designed right, but small wheels are banned from UCI competition along with recumbents. I think you can't even ride slighty smaller 650c in UCI, though that was very popular in triathlons.
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Old 04-05-24, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
All racers want to be riding smaller wheels for lower air drag if designed right, but small wheels are banned from UCI competition along with recumbents. I think you can't even ride slighty smaller 650c in UCI, though that was very popular in triathlons.
huh...
I did not know that.
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Old 04-05-24, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tds101
A total crock of crap... Trump wouldn't even sell you a Bible. All the constant flip flopping, all because the bikes you have you overpaid, and all are defective. Then constantly harping on and on about speed,all whilst not caring about speed? Total, nonsensical drivel. And all because of your need to justify overpaying for faulty bicycles. Keep on shillin' homey!

I cant stand TIGHT people you're a long time dead. Ever heard that one? I'm not trying to justify anything. Hey I'm excited HOMEY. I'm picking up one of the holy trinity today. The incredible DAHON MU SL. I cant wait . The second lightest 20 inch folder ever made. Happy is not even the word.
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Old 04-05-24, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
All racers want to be riding smaller wheels for lower air drag if designed right, but small wheels are banned from UCI competition along with recumbents. I think you can't even ride slighty smaller 650c in UCI, though that was very popular in triathlons.

They are banned because they're SUPERIOR. Large wheeled bikes eat up the Miles in long rides better than small wheeled bikes. But over shorter distances the smaller wheeled bikes have superior acceleration and handling.
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Old 04-05-24, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse
huh...
I did not know that.
Oh yes. In Coventry England in 1963. A 4 man riding team all on 17 inched wheel Moultons. Stunned the crowd by beating the Star team on full sized racing bikes. And breaking the track record in the process. Over shorter rides the smaller wheels rule all day long.
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Old 04-06-24, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse
Yep!
Small and/or light wheels are great for acceleration.
Once you're climbing, it's all about weight, not wheel diameter.
If it did, all racers would be riding 16" wheels in the climb.
Actually it's about both. I cannot count the number of times I've passed guys on full sized bikes on hills. Full sized bikes are a nightmare on steep hills. Often requiring the rider to come off the saddle. You shouldn't have to do this.

And I don't. And today I'm picking up the KING of all hill climbers even better than the X10 and X11. No bike climbs better than the amazing DAHON MU LX. No bike on this earth. 19lbs of climbing heaven on 20 inch wheels.

My friend is selling me his for a steal. And now where I live hills just got even easier. While I watch people walking their useless Bromptons and cumbersome full sized bikes up these hills. I will be floating up them with my favourite music on my JBL clip. Oh yes I never ride without music. It adds to the pleasure.

Last edited by Sentinel1; 04-06-24 at 12:22 AM.
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Old 04-06-24, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Sentinel1
Actually it's about both. I cannot count the number of times I've passed guys on full sized bikes on hills. Full sized bikes are a nightmare on steep hills. Often requiring the rider to come off the saddle. You shouldn't have to do this..
Right, after poppycock, more balderdash…. Once again, you fail to acknowledge or even consider that the people you overtook on hills may be less fit than you and, if you ride all the time as you claim, you should climb better than occasional sunday riders.

Then, you also fail to consider the gearing range…

many road bike are supplied with 11-30 or 11-34 with 50/34 on 700c so 1to1 or 1.13to1.
gravels tend to be 11-42 x42 so again 1to1

your precious x11 is 10-42x52 so 1.24to1. But on 451, with 1.4ratio vs 700c., the 52 chainring is equivalent to a 37 so 0.88to1 like a XC mtb

so yes, with your gearing you should climb better. Now, try a climb vs a CX amateur bike fitted with either 11-42x32 or 11-52x40 and the game will be different…

All achievable on 700c bike; it s called a mullet, mtb transmission on a road bike… same as yours, GX components on an hybrid bike…

No, the x11 is not superior, it is just fitted with various descent std parts giving it good performance… same idea as old lotuses and caterham which can deliver some performances of a porsche 911 at a fraction of a price but are certainly not superior.
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Old 04-06-24, 04:01 AM
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Most things are compromises, doing one or a couple things really well, at the expense of others. It's an extremely rare device that does it all well. In general, I think the tube spindle 2-piece crank designs with external bottom bracket bearings and backwardly compatible to BSA shells, comes darn close, that's impressive, somebody was thinking. Great cookware, a great knife, hard to improve upon, but even in those cases, a single piece of cookware or single knife is not all things to all people, simply because of size, no matter the quality.

A lightweight and well equipped folding bike with good quality parts, I can see it riding spritely and sporty. But saying it's the greatest bike of all time, anywhere, is pushing it. Just in terms of top-end gearing, it falls short, due to the small wheels, so needs either a massive chainring or tiny high cog or both, to match top gear of a 700c race bike (without heavy and inefficent IGH). Saying you don't need that top gear, fine for you, but ignoring the reality that others may desire that particular feature that is not possessed by your treasured bike, strains objectivity and thus credibility. I'm a great proponent of versatility, that in itself, is a superb quality. But I would be wrong to proclaim that triumphs over clear superiority in a particular category.

Credibility is the coin of the realm. Recognizing what is great, and accepting what is not, will win people over. Unless conflict is what is sought.
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Old 04-06-24, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
Most things are compromises, doing one or a couple things really well, at the expense of others. It's an extremely rare device that does it all well. In general, I think the tube spindle 2-piece crank designs with external bottom bracket bearings and backwardly compatible to BSA shells, comes darn close, that's impressive, somebody was thinking. Great cookware, a great knife, hard to improve upon, but even in those cases, a single piece of cookware or single knife is not all things to all people, simply because of size, no matter the quality.

A lightweight and well equipped folding bike with good quality parts, I can see it riding spritely and sporty. But saying it's the greatest bike of all time, anywhere, is pushing it. Just in terms of top-end gearing, it falls short, due to the small wheels, so needs either a massive chainring or tiny high cog or both, to match top gear of a 700c race bike (without heavy and inefficent IGH). Saying you don't need that top gear, fine for you, but ignoring the reality that others may desire that particular feature that is not possessed by your treasured bike, strains objectivity and thus credibility. I'm a great proponent of versatility, that in itself, is a superb quality. But I would be wrong to proclaim that triumphs over clear superiority in a particular category.

Credibility is the coin of the realm. Recognizing what is great, and accepting what is not, will win people over. Unless conflict is what is sought.
Nothing I say is cast in stone let's gets that straight. It's my opinion born out of experience. But god damn I never realised how touchy peeps are in the bike world. Ouch don't hurt me now. Now listen up. I'm taking ownership of the ONLY 20 inch folder on planet earth I consider on par with the X11. And in some ways better. The incredible DAHON MU SL. The 2nd lightest 20 inch folder of ALLTIME. Stock out of the box.

Shares Some of the same stellar components as the X10. Like Kinetix pro X wheelset. American classic hubs and sram gearing.

But it's a full 2lbs lighter than the X10. And that's incredible. It will be my choice for journeys with steep hills and if I'm going to eat in an establishment when I'm out. Can't wait. So I'm not just precious about Tern bikes. Where I see exceptional quality and engineering. I am gonna give it praise. No matter whose name is on the frame. Understood?

I consider the Moulton speed the greatest bike to ever have existed. But at £12,500. Its too expensive to be something I'm gonna have. Outside of the Moulton Speed. It's Tern and Dahon all day.

To me the most overrated and overpriced snall wheeled bike ever is the Brompton. After the fold it lacks everywhere else. And it's fawned over unjustifiably. In the same way people fawn over Rolex watches. Its the most overhyped bike brand ever.

Last edited by Sentinel1; 04-06-24 at 04:43 AM.
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Old 04-06-24, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Sentinel1
I cant stand TIGHT people you're a long time dead. Ever heard that one? I'm not trying to justify anything. Hey I'm excited HOMEY. I'm picking up one of the holy trinity today. The incredible DAHON MU SL. I cant wait . The second lightest 20 inch folder ever made. Happy is not even the word.
Your attempted usage at American slang is catching you looking mad sus, especially since the "tight" comment is even further off the mark. Havin bags ain't the point. Neither is being an abusive, obnoxious individual, who believes himself to be sitting on the golden throne. Keep shilling those defective Tern bikes... Oh, wait, now you're getting a Dahon Mu SL? Worried about being tagged as a shill? At least you're stepping up your game, and getting a bike that isn't currently on a worldwide recall list. About time... 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
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Old 04-06-24, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Sentinel1
The incredible DAHON MU SL. The 2nd lightest 20 inch folder of ALLTIME. Stock out of the box..

again, not true, dahon hammerhead and dahon dash x20 are lighter….

Last edited by Fentuz; 04-06-24 at 05:04 AM.
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Old 04-06-24, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Sentinel1
Nothing I say is cast in stone let's gets that straight. It's my opinion born out of experimece. But god damn I never realised how touchy peeps are in the bike world. Ouch don't hurt me now. Now listen up. I'm taking ownership of the ONLY 20 inch folder on planet earth I consider on par with the X11. And in some ways better. The incredible DAHON MU SL. The 2nd lightest 20 inch folder of ALLTIME. Stock out of the box.

Shares Some of the same stellar components as the X10. Line Kinetix pro X wheelset. American classic hubs and sram gearing.

But it's a full 2lbs lighter than the X10. And that's incredible. It will be my choice for journeys with steep hills and if I'm going to eat in an establisent when I'm out. Can't wait.
Everything you've said above is great. And yes, 2 lbs off an already light bike is a lot.

People are not sensitive about defending their bikes, that's not it at all. How do I put this... there have been some truly great athletes in my time, but the ones that are constantly trumpeting how great they are, that just destroys it for me. And I'm talking about ones that are argueably within the top three and possibly even the best of all time. But that is so obvious, it doesn't need to be said. And yet, even after retirement, them going on about that, tells me the fame is wasted on them. Then others, equally as great in the same sport or different one, never shouting about their accomplishments, they don't need to, they are emotionally secure enough in their knowledge that they don't need to say anything. Some are even humble and gracious. Those who show respect for others in their sport, and display sportsmanship. That's what I admire.

Someone in the news whose name shall remain unsaid (because that would belong in P&R), constantly touting how wealthy they are and how they are the smartest person in the the world on anything and everything, yeah, zero credibility. They don't realize that saying they are good at something which is proveably true, and recognizing that others may be smart in their area of expertise, that would impart much greater credibility. But it's lost on them. Deep down, emotionally insecure and/or major narcissistic personality disorder. But I digress.

When something is clearly better, it's doesn't need to be shouted. The Corvette C8 ZR-1, astonishingly capable car. Did GM run a single ad for it? No. Unnecessary. They can't make them fast enough, with not a single ad. Perfect car for everyone? No, not even close. Impractical. But it does a few performance-car things at world-class level, at a small fraction of the price of competitors. If a competitor does best it in a particular area, should every C8 owner yell in denial of that? No. They can just quietly smile and say it's an amazing car for the money, and plenty performance for them.
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Old 04-06-24, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by tds101
Your attempted usage at American slang is catching you looking mad sus, especially since the "tight" comment is even further off the mark. Havin bags ain't the point. Neither is being an abusive, obnoxious individual, who believes himself to be sitting on the golden throne. Keep shilling those defective Tern bikes... Oh, wait, now you're getting a Dahon Mu SL? Worried about being tagged as a shill? At least you're stepping up your game, and getting a bike that isn't currently on a worldwide recall list. About time... 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Recall list my backside. How many years have I got to ride these bikes before you understand. Its was a small number of flawed frames. Where some overworked Chinese immigrant workers probably got sloppy. My X11 And X10 will still be in one piece when you and me are long gone.
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