fietsbob

Tern, Scion of Da Hon Is Aluminum ... some Dahon may be , I only see steel ones .. where I am..

2_i 

Our Dahons have steel frames (don't buy no alu) and the Dahon's site lists Boardwalk, Speed P8 and Vybe C7S as having steel frames.

berlinonaut

For one, as others have aleady said, the curl has an Aluminium frame and due to the necessary temperature treating it is not that easy to weld additional stuff on it (brazing is not possible anyway). And you would have to do a paint job afterwards which may or may not look good. Personally I would have some resistance to perform such an operation on a brand new bike... Other than that: if you look at the picture of the folded Curl...



(Source: https://dahon.com/bikes/curl-i4/)

... it seems that a luggage truss or carrier block would get in the way of folding the stem and bars. So I assume it would simply not be possible due to how the thing is constructed. Which possibly says something about how it is constructed. Whereas on the Brompton this carrier block thing is not only not the case (and a core element of the bike) but also you can leave you luggage mounted to the carrier block when folding and use the bike as a kind of trolley, either using the bars as a handle or the handle on the bag - with dramatic effects on daily use:





This reflects btw. pretty much my impression of Dahon as a brand: In many if not most cases you get good value for money but the bikes often seem to lack attention to detail: In construction, regarding optical design, regarding customer service and spare parts, ease of usability and maintainance, etc.. Each not too major as a single incident but the overall picture does not attract me at all, especially in comparison to the Brompton. Maybe I am too German. To me Dahons seem to be bread-and-butter-bikes (which is not meant as negatively as it sounds) - work well on average for the money but do not stand out or exceed expectactions (or meet mine). Some models seem to be pretty robust and long lasting (especially the Speed models made of steel), some - like the UNO - are generally intersting and well thought through while for others I just cannot find a reason why they would exist. Possibly Dahon is just not a brand I can connect to. Their lineup alone is far too complex for my taste and - at the same time - leaves a lot to be desired.

linberl

I get what you're saying and maybe you can't add it to the Curl because it is aluminum. But Dahon Mu's are aluminum and come with the 3 hole Dahon truss block - one can buy adapters to convert to the Brompton block if they wish or use the Dahon truss. So maybe it is the way it folds; I've never seen one in real life. But even if you had to remove the bag to fold (an inconvenience) it would fold with the truss block in place and give the owner additional options. They would just need to design a QR release for the long truss, some kind of Rixen Kaul thing maybe. I have friends who own Bromptons and they remove their bags when they fold because they are carrying the bike up stairs to public transit and the extra 15 lbs is better handled by wearing it over their shoulder. I'm just saying what we all know - the curl is a brompton copy - and how they could miss one of the key features is just crazy to me. Maybe there is some engineering reason, it's just a shame they didn't figure it out. Personally, I don't like having a big bag spread across like that, too much wind here and it catches it like a wind scoop. I prefer my bag behind my body for that reason but I also don't carry much when I ride (less than 8 lbs for sure) so a sling bag on my back is perfect for me. I've got my Burley Travoy for loads. I might feel differently if I were commuting with 15-20 lbs of stuff daily.

ttakata73

The Visc seems like a good option with the big tires. Now that I think more about it; I think the Birdy is worth a look. My logic is an aluminum frame with suspension should last longer than a rigid aluminum regarding frame fatigue. Since I would never worry of a rigid Dahon breaking prematurely same would go for the Birdy which probably folds smaller than a Visc and be more comfortable on gravel roads.

Lalato

Regarding the Dahon Curl (just bought one this week). The way the front wheel turns for the fold would not allow the same setup as the Brompton carrier. Basically, the carrier would still be facing forward instead of backward. That doesn't mean you can't put a bag up there (as shown by @tcs), but it would be facing forward. Don't know if this would cause any problems with balance, but it could work.
@tcs, do you have a picture of yours with the bag in front while folded?

berlinonaut

The carrier block on the Brompton is mounted to the steerer tube, not to the stem, the forks or the front wheel. The steerer tube folds identical with the Brompton and the Curl. Why would the carrier then face forward on the Curl (in opposite to the Brompton), assumed there was one?

Lalato

I don't have a Brompton... thanks for the explanation on the placement of the carrier block.

If there was a mount for a carrier block, yes, it would fit the way it does on the Brommie. However, without a carrier block mount, you would have to fit a Klickfix adapter which I think would have to go on the stem in this case. As such it would be facing the opposite direction than the Brompton style carrier mount when the bike is folded. I could be wrong here as I haven't played too much with the Klickfix adapters.

linberl

Well, that's what I was wondering...why didn't Dahon put their 3 hole truss block there? My Dahon Mu has it, lots of aluminum Dahons have it. There's an inexpensive adapter that converts it to the right holes for the brompton mount. Missed opportunity from a company that should have caught it - unless there is some engineering or legal reason they didn't do it that we don't know.

Lalato

Not sure. The only thing there is the head badge. I don't see any reason why they couldn't have put the holes there.

But now we are ranging very far from the OPs question. I still vote for contacting Bike Friday.

linberl

I got the impression the OP was going to grab the Dahon Mu D10's from Overstock. Hopefully, they will let us know what they ended up doing. Yes, I think Bf could have gotten them set up in time, and in the long run, might be better replacements for their hybrids than the Dahon (BF's are still in use 25 years after purchase), but the Dahon would work okay for them. Just a bit heavy imo (the D10 tour model).

KDR

I bought a New World Tourist from bike friday and it was very close to a brand new bike and came with a warranty. Their inventory of used bikes changes often as they get a lot of trade-ins on new bikes. They also offer a nice assortment of accessories, luggage, etc. You will see the used listings with a range of sizes for each bike. This is because while they make each model in more than one frame size they customize each fit with their custom steerer tubes, stems and seat posts even on used bikes. I enjoyed my whole bf experience.

Khb

Seems like no one has mentioned Downtube: https://www.downtube.com/minib-11sp-...-folding-bike/
I've had my eye on one, but I was able to find a used Dahon ... but I've wound up using it fairly little, so Yan's bikes remain on my wishlist ... but I don't yet have a compelling use-case to justify the N+1 bike ;>

tds101 

I have a Downtube Mini. It's a good bike, but I'd say get something else if frequent folding is required. I had to remove the bar ends, and even then, folding is just decent. Also, there's no magnets/special clasps to keep it closed, so a velcro strap is required to keep the bike in the folded position. For travel it's doable,...but NOT if getting on and off of buses or trains.

sunburst

I'll add my 2 cents. A few years ago, when I bought my used, early 90's, Bike Friday New World Tourist (NWT), I decided to check out the Folding Bikes subforum. Someone there mentioned his NWT was his favorite bike, and I realized the same was true for me (out of about 10-12 bikes in my fleet). I try to cycle through my bikes to justify them, but the last time I rode the NWT (last week), it still was true. I've thought about getting a better "folding" bike many times, but the NWT has touring gearing, which is important to me (the San Francisco Bay area can be hilly!), as well as a long wheelbase and 20" wheels. This makes for a very comfortable and versatile bike.

Tried a Brompton at Sea Otter/Laguna Seca bike event last month and it was a little twitchy, although the salesman said you get used to it. Sure, I believe him, but the bike is too upright, while on the NWT I'm stretched out like my favorite bikes. I feel like I'm getting the best of a good geometry, with the incredible nimbleness of the 20" wheels - a compelling combination. Tried a Dahon Boardwalk at a bike co-op sale recently. Same thing, too upright. I think the Brompton and Dahon would be fine for "last mile" solutions after you get off a train, but not for distance.

PR1107

I've had a Bike Friday Pocket Rocket since 1994. Visited 26 countries to date and replying from Italy on my latest tour. I have the 451 wheels, which are lighter and more responsive than the 406 size. Both are nominal 20". Buy new to your spec from Bike Friday with wonderful customer service and a lifetime guarantee. If you budget is insufficient, buy a used Bike Friday, but you will not get the lifetime guarantee. Many are listed on eBay and perhaps Craig's List.

Daytriker

By now you are either overwhelmed with choices or thinking, I should have just gone with the simple solution.
Having gone through this exact same scenario this past Winter, I couldn't choose the right combination of strengths & weaknesses of any of the more commonly available brands. Having a micro budget narrowed my choices down & the 16 inch wheels for their riding qualities was absolutely out. What I did was ordered my bike ahead of time & delivered to my address in Thailand. This was a bit of a gamble but the bike was equipped almost exactly as I wanted so I saved on the airline fees. I think you could do as well with a European Brand or finding a bike dealer close to where you are starting your trip. For a 20 inch wheel bike plus a compact fold & lightish weight I would suggest looking at these available in Aluminum or Carbon Fiber frame - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957309995.html (Java has European Dealers.)
My other suggestion would be to look at these also with a network of European Dealers - https://ahooga.bike/e-shop/

joey buzzard

I've been riding a Swift folder for the past couple of years and I really adore it. It's a very adaptable bike that mostly uses non-proprietary off the shelf parts which makes it easy to replace components as needed or desired. It's also very comfortable and fast. I'm able to maintain high speeds and use mine like a road bike. I ride it around 60km on an average day and on occasion much further. I'd post a pic, but I'm a newb and can't. Unfortunately Xootr stopped distributing the bike, which is a pity because they sold a built bike for around US$700 which was really good (I bought one of their last complete bikes at a reduced price as they were clearing their stock and it's turned out to be one of the better purchases I've ever made.) The exact same frame is still available from swiftfolders.com. Anyone looking for a 20" folder that can comfortably be ridden long distances and/or go very fast should look at the Swift. There's multiple Swift threads on these forums. To sum up the design I'd describe it as elegantly simple, extremely adaptable and very capable.

linberl

This thread will go on forever if you don't chime in and tell us what you have decided, lol!

12boy

Glad to see someone mentioned a Xootr Swift. I have one, and it is a fine machine although not suitable for many foldings in a day as with getting on and off buses, trains etc.. I would have preferred a longer wheelbase to offset its rigidity. They are very stout and the only give is in the tires. I run mine a little low to get a break from crap pavement. Like other bikes that have only one size frame there are ways to adjust for different sized riders, by varying handle bar types, stem lengths and saddles. The 1x8 derailleur system on mine gives me a range of 88 to about 30 gear inches, good for most terrains and yet fairly light.

tds101 

Just an FYI: As much as we all love/d the Xootr Swift, it's no longer available to purchase, so recommending it is kinda useless. Besides. for travel, under the right conditions, it's great. For taking on buses/trains/in cabs/etc,...it's not a recommended choice.

Triskeliongirl

I know u have your heart set on a folder, but have u considered a full size s/s coupled bike? I owned a bike friday pocket rocket pro, and my husband a bike friday New World Tourist, and they both performed beautifully on a tour from chiapis to guatemala. But when my bike friday was stolen, I replaced it with an S/S coupled bike and never looked back. It packs into a suitcase for the airplane portion of your trip. There is no reason why it can't be then brought into a hotel room/airbnb, or locked somewhere. Why are u rejecting using a lock. U can buy a lightweight titanium one. I don't think your idea of schlepping it around and folding it and going inside is very practical, not with a bike that will also allow u to move long distances for touring. I should add that most european trains will accept full size bikes too. If u r set on a folder go with the bike friday for the best ride. If your wife wants something lighter, she could get a petite pocket rocket pro if she is light enough. My husband carried more luggage than me, so he had the NWT, whereas I had the PRP to be faster and zippier. And even the PRP accepts racks and touring width tires.

Dave P

I like Triskeliongirls thinking, although I am not as cosmopolitan and experienced as she.

Personally, I'd shoot for a full-sized, "folder," as well, for comfort, efficiency and the convenience of standard fitting gear/parts. I have ridden with folks on Salsa Vaya Travel and Co-Motion Co-Pilot bikes, and they were happy as clams regarding the bikes and airline travel.

I kick myself now, for not checking out the collapsable Vaya before buying the non-collapsable version, but I'm still OK with renting a bike while traveling.

Good luck with the hunt, and happy travels (I'm jealous)!

Duragrouch

OP: If you just want a bike along to just bike, and doing a lot of multi-mode transport, the Brompton is a fabulous machine due to its ultra-compact fold. Even the chain folds to the inside of the 3-way fold to reduce messiness. If you are doing self-supporting touring, I do not recommend a Brompton unless using a trailer to take all the cargo loads, and even then it's an issue. Here's why.

• The smallest wheel you want for a tourer is 20". Any smaller (like a Brompton), and you need an internal hub gear for the overdrive to get you the top gear you want. 20" won't allow you to power down hills, but you can coast those and it's high enough gearing for the flats with a 52x11 and cushy 1.75" or over tires.
• You don't want an internal hub gear (IHG) because a) While generally reliable, try to get one serviced in Lower East Remoteania, heck even here in the USA. You'll be lucky to find in major cities a bike shop that *services* IHGs and not just say "You need a new rear wheel." b) Unless in the middle (direct drive) hub gear, there is 5-7% energy loss in low or high hub gear due to friction of the planetary gear. c) IHGs have large diameter main bearings with tiny bearing balls and larger radial runout than typical hub bearings (at least the older hubs I know, perhaps the newer hubs are better). The small balls don't tolerate heavy loads well, and the runout and big seals don't seal well. Meaning lube leaks out and water leaks in. Knowledgeable shops recommend annual teardown and lube, with marine grease, of IHGs that experience wet weather, and as you know, on a long tour, at least one day of wet is likely. And, that annual teardown and lube is over $100.
• Conversely, external gearing can be serviced *anywhere*, easily, quickly. Cassettes, chains, derailleurs are common. However, sometimes specific freehub bodies are less so, and is an oft-overlooked part; I recommend checking, lubing, possibly replacing, and sometimes bringing a spare, before a really long tour.
• I've toured with a long-wheelbase recumbent and trailer, very comfy, but extremely difficult to transport and getting up and down stairs and through doorways, elevators, etc. Even a standard bike with trailer is more difficult. These days I favor a bike with panniers, no trailer. Bromptons are not designed to hold rear panniers, and if you modify one to do so, it may impede folding.

Conversely, a 20" wheel folder will not fold as compact as a Brompton (though much more compact than a 26" wheel folder). But it can accommodate a "full size" (normal height) rear rack and panniers (but you need a rack that puts the panniers behind the rear axle, for heel clearance). They make small racks for the front to hold normal front panniers. The huge gap between the handlebar and the front wheel is perfect for a large bag, but you don't need to spend big bucks on a Brompton bag or the like, any cheap small backpack fits perfect hanging in front of the stem, the shoulder straps facing aft and over the handlebar, excess straps tied together behind the lower stem. So that gives you full-size front and rear panniers, a rear trunk bag, a huge handlebar bag (equal to another pannier), and possibly a front trunk bag on top of the pannier rack. That's a lot of volume, and, the mass is positioned lower than on a larger wheel bike, a plus.

The Dahon frames have sufficient torsional rigidity for pannier loads, and with the right rack, can fit large panniers. The frame quality is decent. The geometry is good, they are stable with heavy loads, but don't track well enough for no-handed riding, but that is less a function of the geometry as the lower gyroscopic inertia of a 20" wheel versus a 26" or larger. However the component and build quality on Dahons is typically poor, every one I've had I did a complete teardown in the first week, including a quality wheel truing starting with complete spoke un-tensioning and then gradual tensioning up. The "compact" derailleur limits quality and replacement options on the road (only available from Dahon), and makes it a *mofo* to remove the rear wheel. Dahan frames with a standard derailleur hanger are better, but if not, Shimano makes a great $15 derailleur with integral "claw mount" that mounts under the axle nut (and longer cage to accommodate a double or triple crank), works fabulous, and reverses the tension direction and the grip shifter direction to "normal" (like every other derailleur) from "rapid rise". The Dahon front fork and hub are also narrower OLD (74mm) than standard (100mm), but somebody might make better hubs in that size.

You can use external gearing. Having said that, the standard Dahon gearing on a Speed 7 is a low of 52x30, and that's not low enough for loaded touring, even with 20" wheels. I'm currently building up a tourer with a triple crank (52/42/30) and 11-32 gearing in back, that'll give me a mountain-bike low. I'm not using a double crank because 39 is not low enough and a jump from a 30 to a 52 is too big a jump. Some of the newest Dahons have a braze-on front derailleur bracket on the frame, but most don't, I'll be using a clamp on adapter. Note: There are many of those available online, but I have yet to see one large enough for the Dahon seat tube (41mm?), but Thor Bikes sells them for both the steel and aluminum frames. When I'm done, my Dahon Speed will be not much different from a Bike Friday tourer, but about 1/3 the cost.

What else do you want to know?

Duragrouch

I never leave a bike outside, even locked, unless it's a cheap one. Even the best locks are easily cut with big bolt cutters or a small angle-grinder. Touring requires a quality bike, and the theft of it ruins your whole tour, which is very costly. That doesn't rule out full-size bikes; those can be brought into motel rooms and some businesses. Any business that does not accommodate my bike or have a secure bike rack within constant sight, I bypass. A folder is more of an asset in terms of transport.