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BikeFriday possible sale. Not a bike, the company.

Old 11-13-19, 11:52 AM
  #226  
Jarlybart
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
He doesn't want to BELIEVE anything, he just wants to be a jerk to you. I have no idea why, you seem very nice.
I actually don't want to be a jerk to anyone...just want to stick to the facts from someone who worked there. My end goal is that someone who buys it knows what they are faced with. Much of the bad will go with the current owners when they leave and what will be left is a very capable team who want to see changes but have no power to make those changes. Nobody has to believe me, that is up to you to decide and nothing I say or do can change that. Just remember, the end goal is to save the company and turn it into what it could be and not what it currently is. The business concept is great, the product is great, the owners have no idea how to run a profitable business and that...well that isn't great and is the cause for where it sits right now.
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Old 11-13-19, 04:26 PM
  #227  
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Originally Posted by Jarlybart View Post
I actually don't want to be a jerk to anyone...just want to stick to the facts from someone who worked there. My end goal is that someone who buys it knows what they are faced with. Much of the bad will go with the current owners when they leave and what will be left is a very capable team who want to see changes but have no power to make those changes. Nobody has to believe me, that is up to you to decide and nothing I say or do can change that. Just remember, the end goal is to save the company and turn it into what it could be and not what it currently is. The business concept is great, the product is great, the owners have no idea how to run a profitable business and that...well that isn't great and is the cause for where it sits right now.
You're not who I was referring to that was being a jerk to linberl.
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Old 11-14-19, 10:39 AM
  #228  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
The company doesn't pay full MSRP on any "stock" parts. It is possible that something unique such as Dura Ace or SRAM Red would be different, but I'd imagine they still get the discounts.

Keep in mind that the mail order companies try to undercut MSRP. So, see something mail order for $100, and it may well be $150 MSRP (unless there is a MAP agreement).

Many of the parts suppliers have been fighting overseas companies undercutting their prices.
If you worked at BF you would understand that though they get good pricing, because of the financial issues they have to buy many parts last minute because they don't have the cash to buy it ahead of time. This means that if a bike is being built on Thursday they may wait until Tuesday to order which means they have to either do two day or over-night it as not to hold the line up. Make sense? This is a very common thing that happens for almost every bike built...so any profit that could be made if things were shipped normal ground are now lost because of the inflated shipping cost. With just a little planning you could lump 10 or 15 orders together and save a ton on shipping but too often they only buy what they need days before they need it...when they have had months most of the time to plan for what the need is. They are now out to January...
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Old 11-14-19, 10:55 AM
  #229  
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Originally Posted by Jarlybart View Post
If you worked at BF you would understand that though they get good pricing, because of the financial issues they have to buy many parts last minute because they don't have the cash to buy it ahead of time. This means that if a bike is being built on Thursday they may wait until Tuesday to order which means they have to either do two day or over-night it as not to hold the line up. Make sense? This is a very common thing that happens for almost every bike built...so any profit that could be made if things were shipped normal ground are now lost because of the inflated shipping cost. With just a little planning you could lump 10 or 15 orders together and save a ton on shipping but too often they only buy what they need days before they need it...when they have had months most of the time to plan for what the need is. They are now out to January...
I suggested earlier that that sounded like part of their problem.

I assume it varies a bit by part. Hopefully they can order Chosen hubs by the thousand.

Isn't there a big regional parts warehouse in Portland or Seattle? So, shipping from the regional warehouse to Eugene should be cheap. But still, it could be cheaper to plan ahead.

At least fill a box with all the necessary parts for a couple of bikes, but stuff gets much cheaper when bought by the case.

I actually ordered a couple of non-standard parts through Bike Friday a while ago. It took them about 2 months to get them in. But, perhaps that also depends on the vendor. So appending an order to a factory direct order may be relatively cheap, but going to a wholesaler may be expensive.

An option, of course, would be to do the "Niagara Plan". Move the business right next door to the regional distribution center. Then don't hold any inventory in-house. Simply walk across the street to the distribution center as needed.
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Old 11-15-19, 06:45 AM
  #230  
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I never saw here on bikeforuns such an unjust attack on a brand.
their products are great and par to best folders on world.

its funny to see landsky and pignis, as competitors, saying anything on bike friday limitations as they cant see their on limits of their produts!
clean your house before talk about others
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Old 11-17-19, 03:23 PM
  #231  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post

An option, of course, would be to do the "Niagara Plan". Move the business right next door to the regional distribution center. Then don't hold any inventory in-house. Simply walk across the street to the distribution center as needed.
This would actually be very smart and would actually support them in being LEAN which they are currently not. I love the LEAN concept though I am not sure how logical it all is for a business like BF when it comes to profit margins. I think it's good to have at least a few stock bikes in-stock like the Haul-a-Day and the Oregon Traveller for the ASAP orders. You may not get the custom bike you dreamed of, but that is easy to fix down the road with upgrading parts which you 100% can when you have more time/need to do so. Sounds like some good things are moving forward over there so stay tuned...could be good news coming if all goes well. Cross your fingers, legs, arms and whatever else ya got that you can cross.
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Old 12-01-19, 12:51 PM
  #232  
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Originally Posted by tcs View Post
Were Downtube and Origami left off this memo?
We have chosen the direct sales route simply because retailers add 35% to the cost of a bike. My goal has been to keep Origami bikes affordable, and adding 35% markup would make that difficult.
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Old 12-01-19, 02:17 PM
  #233  
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Originally Posted by ladi View Post
That's not true. Brompton certainly is not a "luxury brand". They create solid bikes that they sell for a price you might call something between fair and slightly overpriced. They have good branding which allows them to do that. But their components in terms of brakes and shifting system are extremely basic. Most Bromptons in Asia are below 2500 USD in retail price (non-electric). If you configure a luxury Bike Friday (Rohloff, disc brakes, SON dynamo, Chris King headset, ...) you might well end above 5000 USD. There are people buying in this price range, but not nearly enough to maintain the company.
They sell non-custom, factory-made, extremely low-tech steel folder at very high price, and all they have been doing for the last decade is adding new "editions". So Brompton is a basically luxury fashion brand now.

Meanwhile third party makers are actually innovating (disc fork/rear triangle, handlepost for AHEAD stem, 135 spacing rear frame, titanium main frame, 3~11 speed hub so on)
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Old 12-01-19, 05:09 PM
  #234  
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Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
We have chosen the direct sales route simply because retailers add 35% to the cost of a bike. My goal has been to keep Origami bikes affordable, and adding 35% markup would make that difficult.
And you're both doing a great job IMO,...
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Old 12-01-19, 11:50 PM
  #235  
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Originally Posted by Raxel View Post
They sell non-custom, factory-made, extremely low-tech steel folder at very high price, and all they have been doing for the last decade is adding new "editions". So Brompton is a basically luxury fashion brand now.

Meanwhile third party makers are actually innovating (disc fork/rear triangle, handlepost for AHEAD stem, 135 spacing rear frame, titanium main frame, 3~11 speed hub so on)
$1700 is not a lot of money for a good bicycle, and Brompton has design factors for the fold that negate every "improvement" you think it needs. If you want a Dahon, Dahon makes them.
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Old 12-02-19, 12:27 AM
  #236  
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
$1700 is not a lot of money for a good bicycle, and Brompton has design factors for the fold that negate every "improvement" you think it needs. If you want a Dahon, Dahon makes them.
Everything is relative, and $1700 is a lot of money when you can buy a full carbon road bike for $500, or full titanium folder for $2500.

And every improvements I mentioned can be done on Brompton now without affecting the fold.
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Old 12-02-19, 02:25 AM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by Raxel View Post
Everything is relative, and $1700 is a lot of money when you can buy a full carbon road bike for $500, or full titanium folder for $2500.

And every improvements I mentioned can be done on Brompton now without affecting the fold.
Well sure, you can just pretend all those changes would work when I just factually claimed they would compromise the design. You can also claim a $500 carbon road bike isn't a death trap, but I'm not buying that story, either. MAN this forum has gotten lame.
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Old 12-02-19, 11:24 AM
  #238  
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
Well sure, you can just pretend all those changes would work when I just factually claimed they would compromise the design. You can also claim a $500 carbon road bike isn't a death trap, but I'm not buying that story, either. MAN this forum has gotten lame.
I personally know >20 people who has done various mods on their Brompton (Disc brake, 130mm rear frame, 7/11 speed e-tap drivetrain etc) and they all say they will never go back. Oh they fold their bikes just fine too.
And the $500 road bike I mentioned has a reputable distributor in my country, and many people are ridding the bike just fine for years. I never heard any major quality issue with that bike yet.

On the other hand, Brompton has a number of quality issues, and the biggest one is the bursting steerer tube. They SILENTLY changed the quill design without issuing recall!
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Old 12-02-19, 12:04 PM
  #239  
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Originally Posted by Raxel View Post
They sell non-custom, factory-made, extremely low-tech steel folder at very high price, and all they have been doing for the last decade is adding new "editions". So Brompton is a basically luxury fashion brand now.

Meanwhile third party makers are actually innovating (disc fork/rear triangle, handlepost for AHEAD stem, 135 spacing rear frame, titanium main frame, 3~11 speed hub so on)

The primary obligation of a company is its economic survival for the sake of the customer base, employees and investors. They do what makes economic sense. If you want to impose your own criteria, start your own company. What puzzles me is that you seem to have some manufacturing background, but you seem to be completely out of strategizing - in any case it is your own issue.

As to the aftermarket parts for Brompton, in my personal experience the vast majority of them does not work as they are supposed to, maybe 9 out of 10. When you inspect them you see that their designers do not even understand the functioning of the bicycle. My suspicion regarding the bikes put together out of such parts is that their owners hardly ever use them and their primary purpose is to show them off to the friends putting together similar unusable bikes. The aftermarket of folding bike parts is an out of control horror, there to generate funds for the manufacturers and resellers but with not much respect for customers. Anyway, that's my personal experience so far.
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Old 12-02-19, 12:39 PM
  #240  
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BikeFriday used to run 1/3 page ads in Adventure Cycling. AC is a member publication of the non-profit bicycle touring organization by the same name; they run editorial content for the benefit of their members and have never been prone to a bias of reviewing advertisers' wares. Anyway, way back in 1994 they did a 2-page spread in their little magazine on the New World Tourist:
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Old 12-02-19, 12:44 PM
  #241  
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Adventure Cycling touched on the BF NWT again in their blog in 2010:

https://www.adventurecycling.org/res...world-tourist/

If BF wants more exposure in the great big, dynamic world of bicycling for a little-changing product, they're going to have to generate it themselves (buy advertising).
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Old 12-02-19, 12:49 PM
  #242  
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Originally Posted by Raxel View Post
They sell non-custom, factory-made, extremely low-tech steel folder at very high price, and all they have been doing for the last decade is adding new "editions". So Brompton is a basically luxury fashion brand now.

Meanwhile third party makers are actually innovating (disc fork/rear triangle, handlepost for AHEAD stem, 135 spacing rear frame, titanium main frame, 3~11 speed hub so on)
I would agree with most of what you said but not that they are luxury fashion brand. There are improvements that could be made. I have had many bikes and folders but Brompton does more things better. Admittedly, it has a bunch of compromises, but if I were to have only one bike, it would be the Brompton.
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Old 12-02-19, 12:52 PM
  #243  
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Black Friday would have been a good day to sell Bike Friday, but I guess it didn't work out.
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Old 12-02-19, 12:53 PM
  #244  
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In recent times, I've not seen any BF "print" ads, which is unfortunate. I have seen ads in Bicycling magazine for Brompton, however. Word of mouth worked okay in the "old days" but BF needs a well directed marketing plan to reach people who don't even know they exist and buy alternatives. Marketing in family media for their cargo bike, in urban life media for the pakiT, and in travel media for the NWT/Rockets. Yup, that can cost some $$$ but if done well will generate sales to offset the cost. They do a good job with their own facebook community page but that is preaching to the choir.
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Old 12-02-19, 12:54 PM
  #245  
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Originally Posted by Schwinnsta View Post
I would agree with most of what you said but not that they are luxury fashion brand. There are improvements that could be made. I have had many bikes and folders but Brompton does more things better. Admittedly, it has a bunch of compromises, but if I were to have only one bike, it would be the Brompton.
I'm curious, if the Brompton did not fold the way it does, would you still want it as your only bike? Let's pretend it folded like a Dahon or other generic folder.
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Old 12-02-19, 03:13 PM
  #246  
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
I'm curious, if the Brompton did not fold the way it does, would you still want it as your only bike? Let's pretend it folded like a Dahon or other generic folder.
You're not addressing me but my answer would be that if a Brompton folded like a Dahon it would be just another folder. The fold is what makes a Brompton the unique thing it is.
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Old 12-02-19, 03:57 PM
  #247  
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folded like a Dahon or other generic
fold like a Dahon
folded like a Dahon...just another folder
For newbies to the folding bike world, you should understand that Dahon produces bikes that fold in at least four distinct methods, in a wide range of price points.
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Old 12-02-19, 04:10 PM
  #248  
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
You're not addressing me but my answer would be that if a Brompton folded like a Dahon it would be just another folder. The fold is what makes a Brompton the unique thing it is.
I'm just curious if Schwinstaa feels that way. Is it the fold that makes him choose it as his only bike choice? Or is he happy enough with it as just a bike to choose it over anything else?
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Old 12-02-19, 04:17 PM
  #249  
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Originally Posted by Schwinnsta View Post
...Brompton does more things better. Admittedly, it has a bunch of compromises...
Lol! Schizophrenia at its best!

Anyway, Bike Friday is better than Brompton.
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Old 12-02-19, 04:42 PM
  #250  
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
I'm curious, if the Brompton did not fold the way it does, would you still want it as your only bike? Let's pretend it folded like a Dahon or other generic folder.
Right off, hard to say. I like that it can carry so much. I like the way it rides compared to Dahon. I do almost all my riding in the city on city streets. If I were in the country, that might be different.
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