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Helios... race bike type or TT?

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Helios... race bike type or TT?

Old 02-21-20, 09:14 AM
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Fentuz
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Helios... race bike upgrades

After refurbishing the dahon jetstream p8 to a p16... and it works very well off road or in urban environment but it s heavy, 14kg.

so i have a helios 20 with 7 gears 11-28. I have a spare set of from derailleur bits so, im going to remove the 44T chain ring and fit either a 39T 53T or a 34T 50T.

to run these, I will fit road shifter/brake levers and V brake pulleys.

the unknown is the handle bar, road drop down with the curved handle or TT bullhorn handle / speed pro TT (which is almost a MTB with ergo configuration but with the brake lever on the ergo ends)

so which one? What are the pros and cons?

I will be lightening the bike as much as possible.

tyres: i m not sure whether refitting a set of marathon big apple or move to kojak (or similar).

this helios is going to be road orientated bike for longer rides, no curb jumping etc.

so please, advise me.

thanks



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Old 02-21-20, 12:35 PM
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I have a Dahon Helios also. Mine is what I think they called a Helios XL. 7 speed internal hub.

There is a big difference between Big Apple & Kojak tires. Kojak very low rolling resistance, but a very brittle ride also. Big Apple the opposite. I like in between - the Marathon Supreme Racers. Fast, but not a painful ride like the Kojaks.

I like my Helios XL a lot, but the frame seems too flexible for a road bike / road handlebar setup. I added the Ergo GP3 gribs with bar ends on the stock straight handlebar. It's a good set up, and was easy to do. Of the options you mention, the TT bullhorn seems better for the Helios.
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Old 02-21-20, 12:44 PM
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Yes, the idea is to do a look alike
helios XL
speed pro tt
tern verge xt18

i will fit a speed pro handle post very similar to the jetstream.

in your opinion, what bit is not stiff enough?

thanks
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Old 03-07-20, 02:06 PM
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I spent sometime gathering the parts and yesterday, I started to rebuild...



The crankset had to come out. I could use the fsa BB30 as it was too norrow. I put a litepro.
i match the rear sora derailleur with a front one on a litepro adaptor.
the shifter/brake lever are tourney. Fitted with v brake pulleys (litepro) and cable tensioning screw.
TT 2nd gen handlepost, litepro adaptor and drop down handlebar.

front wheel is a MU kinetix and it s all wrapped with kojaks...

the handlebar tap is left to do

saddle, I swap my rido on crane creek shocks depending whether I ride this helios or the jetstream


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Old 03-08-20, 09:52 AM
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done... just need to ride it properly





Front travel agent brake is reset properly

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Old 03-13-20, 08:12 AM
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1st ride <-> 36kms. This is much faster than the jetstream and requires less efforts to keep the momentum going.
A few tweak to do:
adjust the handle bar
decrank the rotor Qring to MTB setting rather than road bike.
offset the front fender (too much clearance)


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Old 03-17-20, 09:27 AM
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I rode a bit more and I found that I could do with a lower cassette starting @ 10 or 9 rather than the std 7 speed 11-28T.

Any advices?

I know there are "split" cassettes with many more gears that starts at 10 or 9, can I get on and stack up 7 gears only?

thnaks
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Old 04-01-20, 04:23 AM
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Interesting upgrade.

What did you think of the LitePro crank? Is it much lighter than the original?

To increase the gearing is it possible to increase the size of the chainrings? Or maybe fit 451 wheels with the narrower tyres which are maybe not that much bigger than the 406 with chunky tyres? Not sure of the brakes would fit though.
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Old 04-01-20, 08:24 AM
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The crank with 2 ringset is 100g lighter than the original crank. I could fit a 56 chainring but it s expensive (not on ebay).
With the country lockdown, i pull out the turbo trainer and refitted the bigapples as i don’t want to destroy the new kojaks
at some point, i’ll bit the bullet and with fit a rear kinetix comp with 9 speed cassette capreo 9-28, a rear sora 9 derailleur and a front sora 9 spd shifter...
but for now I leave it as it is

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Old 04-02-20, 06:01 AM
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Thanks for the info on the weights. I will order a litepro 54t chainring from ebay. The weight saving doesn't seem enough to lose the chain guards (and damage my trousers).
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Old 04-23-20, 02:04 PM
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Helios upgrade from D14T to X18T

So, i got a set of jetstream comp wheels for 60... so I thought i would go capreo 9 to 26T cassette and they both arrived but, i cannot fit the capreo because 13,11,10,9 have smaller core (which is not mentionned anywhere as a warning).... and requires a special hub.
so, I will have to fine a 9 speed cassette but, can I got lower than 11T for speed?

The 7 speed I have shift with big steps and you can feel it; these is also a reason I want to move to 9 speed.

any advise?

thanks
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Old 04-23-20, 03:47 PM
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Capreo parts only fit on Capreo drive system parts. Roger
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Old 04-23-20, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Fentuz View Post
I will have to fine a 9 speed cassette but, can I got lower than 11T for speed?
Capreo, SRAM's XD, and Hope are the options I know about for going below 11 teeth. Each one only works with cassettes designed for it and almost all cassettes are for MTB/Gravel and are generally 10-42 to 10-50. I have a 3T Overdrive cassette that's a 9-32 and fits the XD driver. It works but I don't recommend it due to the ridiculous cost.

Last edited by grayrest; 04-23-20 at 07:22 PM. Reason: hub is not cassette
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Old 04-23-20, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Fentuz View Post
So, i got a set of jetstream comp wheels for 60... so I thought i would go capreo 9 to 26T cassette and they both arrived but, i cannot fit the capreo because 13,11,10,9 have smaller core (which is not mentionned anywhere as a warning).... and requires a special hub.
so, I will have to fine a 9 speed cassette but, can I got lower than 11T for speed?

The 7 speed I have shift with big steps and you can feel it; these is also a reason I want to move to 9 speed.

any advise?

thanks
Since your bike is a 7 speed it's a freewheel, NOT a cassette. Get a rear wheel that has a cassette.
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Old 04-23-20, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tds101 View Post
Since your bike is a 7 speed it's a freewheel, NOT a cassette. Get a rear wheel that has a cassette.
like I said, I got a new old set (excess stock, un sold item) of dahon comp with cassette for 8to10...

i might go for a std 11to25 road bike cassette and swap the chainring from 53 to 56... but, if I do so, do I keep the 39 - 17T jump when recommended max is 16- or do I fit the 44 - 12T jump ?

i dont use 39 much on the helios whereas it was a requirement on the jetstream when off road.
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Old 04-24-20, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Fentuz View Post
like I said, I got a new old set (excess stock, un sold item) of dahon comp with cassette for 8to10...

i might go for a std 11to25 road bike cassette and swap the chainring from 53 to 56... but, if I do so, do I keep the 39 - 17T jump when recommended max is 16- or do I fit the 44 - 12T jump ?

i dont use 39 much on the helios whereas it was a requirement on the jetstream when off road.
My apologies,...I missed that post.
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Old 04-24-20, 10:32 AM
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I should think the 17 tooth jump from 56 to 39 should be OK. You will get fairly low gearing even with a road bike cassette, but if in doubt use the 44 t inner chainring and a slightly larger spread rear cassette. Should be about the same requirements on the rd.
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Old 04-24-20, 10:35 AM
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For the top end I am still looking at 451mm wheels and thinner tyres. With a 11tooth small cog, 54 chainring and 406 + 38mm tyres I spin out well above 40kmh, so only a problem down hill and with a tail wind generally.
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Old 04-24-20, 02:10 PM
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I have kojak 406 1.35 (34ich mm)...

well I will see what happen with the ebay auction on a 56 ring

with current system, i can do 20 km in an hours, a checked and I m 80% onr 53T front an 13/15/18/21 rear. The thing I dont like about that is the abruptness of the gear change.
I never use the 30 cog, the max I use is the 24 with 53... so if I get 56 and 25, I better of and Should I need to bail, I can go 44 or 39 with 25...same as tern x18t.

with comp-comp Pro and kojak instead of delux and big apple, I read that I might save 1 to 1.5kg... the fenders were about 0.5 kg, the handle bar post TT has to be lighter than std one as it is a single tube rather than 2 concentric tube. The chainring set is 100g lighter...
so the original helios d7 was rated at 12.2kg... this newer version might be about 10 to 10.5 kg.

Hopefully the weight loss will allow me to ride faster longer

Last edited by Fentuz; 04-27-20 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 04-27-20, 02:40 PM
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Jetstream messed up the plan....

Yesterday, I thought I d take the jetstream off-road... and the rear wheel hub was hammed locked.
so i was thinking and various scenarios:
1, i put the wheel apart, fix it job done, no change of plan
2, the hub is dead, i put the new old stock comp wheel on the jetstream and get the old wheel refurbed with a capreo hub...


tonight, i put the wheel apart, clean the lot, freed up the hub, and treated the corrosion. I left the cassette part on the hub having a bath in penetrating oil for 1 hour and then kept flushing until it was clean. Injected lithium grease brushed copper grease on the accessible and it s free and run properly... the degreased ball bearings were polished and I left the hub to soak with lub.
tomorrow i will put high Temperature water resistant grease and refit the bearings and reassemble the wheel.
so that wheel seems fixable...

scenario 1 is in play
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Old 04-29-20, 01:50 PM
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So, i packed the jetstream hub with grease and it now works very well... so the bike was reassembled and i went back to the Helios...

i got the wheels ready



If I find the local road too rough i can always fit the spare front wheel...

now, I have to wait for the shifter, only thing holding the perf build 😅
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Old 05-05-20, 03:11 AM
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All the bits have finally arrived... on the list:
* Rear Kinetix comp rim (19mm wide) fitted with 11-25T 9spd shimano cassettes with presta inner tube and Kojak 35-406 tyres.
* Front Kinetix comp pro rim (17mm wide)fitted with presta inner tube and Kojak 35-406 tyres
* 9speed chain KMC X9-73
* triple compound brake pads (2 sets)
* Shifter Sora 2x9 ST3500 (both lever on the brake)
* 4 cables
* Shorex Cycle Bar tape - Silicone micro diamond
* Various chain/transmission fitting tools.

These new bits were going on the Helios frame already fitted with:
* TT Dahon handle post
* Litepro handle post extension/adaptor
* Drop down bar ZOOM 4Aero3 43cm
* crane creek saddle post with Rido saddle (glow in the dark)
* Shimano SPD pedals (PD-T400)
* Litepro crank set
* Q Ring rotors (39-53T) - I was bidding for a 56T to go with the spare 44T but the price went up the roof; 5 less than a brand new...
* Shimano 105 front derailleur mounted on litepro adaptor
* Shimano Sora rear derailleur
* Shimano Sora V brakes
* Litepro V brake traveller adaptor
* Litepro Cable tensioner

Then, I spent some time on youtube more specifically the "GCN Tech" channel to make sure I get the chain sizing/fitting right. The 3rd customisation campaign started.

The wheel went on the frame and I put apart the rear derailleur to clean all the gunky accumulation - When I first converted the helios to TT, I purposely did not touch the rear 7 speed gearing to limit further issues at the time. The derailleur wheels were lubricated and refitted. The derailleur screws were adjusted to cover the full 9 speed range rather than the 7 speed. Chain was measured and since I am running a 11-25T 9spd cassette rather 11-30T 7spd, the new chain could be 2 links shorter; I went for 1 link shorter as it works for the current cassette and would allow either the cassette swap for 11-28T or a 56T chainring (not both at the same time).
The brake pads went on and I locked shut the V brake with cable ties so that as I fitted the shifter, I could climb on the bike to check the position. With brake shifters, I find the easiest it to fit 1st the brake cable through the lever and cable housing leaving them loose and then, fit the gear shifting cables. The gear cables were a bit fiddly but they do work and can be fine tuned using the cable adjusters. The brake cables and the traveller are very fiddly; in the end, I used a needle file to make the cable hole a bit bigger - essentially deburred the hole and put a fitting chamfer. Va brake clearance adjusted... almost done.

The "old" bar tape (2 month old) was reused as under layer. I found that the vibrations and lack on cushioning was hurting my wrist after 1hr ride; on GCN Tech (I believe) I saw that a pro tip is to fit 2 layers of tape which does not add much weigh and make the ride more comfortable. So the cheap foam tape went on, 1 cm short from the tip on the handle bar...


After 2 hrs, it was time to go to bed...

Next, fit the Shorex tape, that should take 10-15min, check the transmission works freely, cut the excess cable... and got for a shakedown ride, 5 km (a few loops around the block).
And if everything goes to plan, I will see how this 3rd iteration improve the performance and the comfort.

On note though, with the from light weight kinetix comp pro rim I won't be able to do gravel trail anymore... but, I think the local road are in bad condition, I will loose a bit the front brake and will fit the STD Kinetix comp (28 spoke) rim.

Last edited by Fentuz; 05-05-20 at 03:25 AM.
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Old 05-05-20, 02:51 PM
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The silicone tape is somewhat fitted-not very happy with the fitting and it does not wrap around as a classic tape.
I put the new build on the turbotrainer and did 5kms and i run through all the gear and the thing seems faster.

I was immediately surprised how the transition runs smoothly, quietly and felt that it was torquier. The difference between the 2 transmission is amazing:
12 years old gunky 7speed chain on MTB 11-30 cassette
new 9 speed clean chain on road closer ratio 11-25 cassette

the other things that probably improved things are:
250g saving on the outer rim/tyre (lighter flywheel)
smaller rolling surface, less frictions.





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Old 05-25-20, 04:20 AM
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Since the latest rebuilt/tune-up, the helios went out a few times, it did several ~20k runs and a couple of 40s.
it is a much faster tarmac eater and the silicone tap really improved the confort.
after a couple of ride, i got annoyed with the creaky noise from The hinge. The metal of metal galling showed on the inner locating rib/web so, i fitted a motorsport brake pads 3m shim and it took care of this; the skim absorb the micro motion/friction. Everything else is in compression lovely.

i found that passed 20k, my feets hurt in my 20yrs old mtb shoes so i got new lighter weight touring shoes and it is much better...

oh and now it is more of a sport version, bad ass has been upgraded to bad ass type S 🤣😜



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Old 05-25-20, 06:55 AM
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Thanks for sharing, great read.
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