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Downtube folding bike

Old 06-07-06, 04:26 PM
  #326  
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maunakea, nice. I like the way that "alignment frame" sounds like something that the person behind the counter ought to be familiar with, and would feel foolish asking for clarification over.
Also: Don't sticker your frame with advertisements for your favorite folk punk band.
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Old 06-07-06, 05:05 PM
  #327  
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Originally Posted by bookishboy
Don't know, Wav. I was wondering what happened with that other post of yours. It seemed almost as if you were attempting to juggle typing your post with an IM conversation with one of your kids. I'd say send Koffee or Joe G a PM, ask them if they can force a log-in for you for the next week regardless of cookies. Also, unless you're certain of which computer was compromised (maybe a public PC that you accidentally stayed logged-in?), see if they can help you to track down which IP address has been getting used to access your account.

Hey, while I've got you here, did you get my PM about that folding club you were talking about forming? Is it going forward? I hope I'm not getting passed over, sort of like the kid who always gets picked last for dodgeball in gym class.
I tried logging in from another PC that didn't have the new password and all seems normal now. I had to log in. I went back and found posts that weren't what I originally posted. I am anal about security on my PC.

As for the folder club I am still interested in it moving forward. I don't know what Rafael is up to. I emailed him a while back and didn't hear back from him since then.
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Old 06-09-06, 02:36 PM
  #328  
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Compact folding

Originally Posted by Gman.
Anyone have any tips or tricks to get my Downtube more compact when folded? It would be appreciated.
You may try to turn the front wheel backward before folding. This way the handlebar would go between front and rear wheel like Ian suggested (i think).

I have done this on my girlfriend Dahon with success. Since i installed a 100mm ahead stem to extend reach on her bike, the folded handlebar between wheels was impossible so reversing the front wheel before folding, give a bike folded tighter with the handlebar sticking outside. It is a far from perfect solution but work ok in the boot of my small jeep.
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Old 06-09-06, 03:08 PM
  #329  
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You can also disconnect the rear shock, and rotate the swingarm forward until the swingarm hits the stand.
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Old 06-11-06, 11:08 PM
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After another bout of much profanity while hauling my full-size, non-folding bike up the stairs for the night, I have finally bit the bullet and ordered a VIIIH. I have a few questions about what to expect:

Will this bike ship with a sprung saddle? The picture on Downtube's web site seems to indicate not, but post #308 says otherwise.

What is the weight of the complete bike? Does the internally geared version really weigh the same as the VIII?

The picture on the web site looks like it only has a rear fender. Is this the case?

Thanks, Yan! Hi Wav!

Natalie
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Old 06-12-06, 08:34 AM
  #331  
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Originally Posted by natness
After another bout of much profanity while hauling my full-size, non-folding bike up the stairs for the night, I have finally bit the bullet and ordered a VIIIH. I have a few questions about what to expect:

Will this bike ship with a sprung saddle? The picture on Downtube's web site seems to indicate not, but post #308 says otherwise.

What is the weight of the complete bike? Does the internally geared version really weigh the same as the VIII?

The picture on the web site looks like it only has a rear fender. Is this the case?

Thanks, Yan! Hi Wav!

Natalie
Natalie,

The saddle was changed to Velo VL-6057 due to supply chain issues. Please view https://www.biketaiwan.com/script/TBS...&cPd_No=000034 for specs on the saddle. Again due to better supplies in the future we will move to VL-3037. I will happily send you out a sprung saddle for free with your bike.

I removed the front fender because I found it unnecessary. The rider sits well above the front wheel, additionally the frame acts as a fender deflecting most of the water that splashes up. The H is a little lighter than the VIII for several reasons:

1. alloy crown fork is much lighter (it also has disc tabs for a disc brake)
2. lighter BB
3. no front fender
4. lighter saddle
5. better/lighter rack

Please note the Sturmey Archer hub is not light. It weighs 1.48kg= 3.2 lbs

Thanks,
Yan
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Old 06-12-06, 10:06 AM
  #332  
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Thanks Yan!

Happily looking forward to my VIIIH and sprung saddle!

Natalie
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Old 06-14-06, 07:07 PM
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Wow!!!!!!!!
I have been researching folders for a couple of months. My wife and I wanted quality bikes that we could ride for fun and exercise plus bikes that we could fold and take with us on our RV trips.
I narrowed the search down to a Dahon Speed D7 for her and either a Swift or Dahon Speed 8 for me.
I was still not comfortable as the Swift did not fold small enough for our Motor home and the Dahon Speed frame flex, with my weight, was a concern.
I then started to look more closely at Downtubes and exchanged e-mails with Yan. After a lot of research and thought I bought an IXFS for me and a VIIIH for my wife. I liked the idea of a full suspension for my 59 year and 220 lb body plus the no fuss you get with internal gears for my wife.
I ordered the bikes Sunday night and the IXFS showed up today (Wed.)---very fast indeed, the VIIIH hopefully will be here in a couple of weeks.
Based on past experience with ordering stuff on line I was expecting the box to have damage and possibly some minor damage to the bike. Furthermore I was certain I would have to take the bike to a local shop to get it tuned.
Wow-----my expectations were exceeded in every area. There was no damage to the box and the bike was packed very well with extra padding in critical areas. Unbelievably the bike was great out of the box---the brakes did not need to be adjusted, the deraileur worked good, the shifter worked well, and the fit and finish was better than I was expecting.
I then took it for a ride---WOW. I love how it handles, the 9 speed is great, and the comfort far exceeds any bike I have ever owned.
I can't wait for my wifes VIIIH to show up -----based on my experience with Yan and the quality of the bikes I know we are going to have many years of enjoyment with our Downtubes.
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Old 06-15-06, 12:37 AM
  #334  
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Hey Yan, another request/nitpick for the website:

Howsabout a chart breaking down what the different letter/numeral codes for the Downtubes are? I"m starting to get confused by the labelling, and I'm sure a new visitor to your site would be also.

Oh, and color me stupid: I only just realized that the DTVIII meant "Downtube, 8-speed". I originally thought that it meant it was the 8th revision of the brand, and somewhere out there were owners of the DT, DTII, DTIII, DTIV, etc etc.

So, something that explains that "DTVIIIH" = "DownTube, 8-speed, Hub gears". What's up with some of the other new model numbers, did you have to switch out componentry mid-year due to supply issues?

Oh, here's two more, for down the line. If you're going to re-vamp the site's forum software, you'll find yourself with a budding web community of DT owners over there. Two other things that'd add to the site would be:
-Photo gallery of owners and bikes out in the wild
-Historic gallery. You've mentioned that the current model isn't the first Downtube that's been available. Did the older ones look different? Maybe they didn't look like much, but it's neat to see how a company's product line evolves. I've seen photos of old old Dahons, and while they don't look like anything I'd ride (I think I"m too tall), it's enlightening to see how they've developed.
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Old 06-15-06, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bookishboy
Hey Yan, another request/nitpick for the website:

Howsabout a chart breaking down what the different letter/numeral codes for the Downtubes are? I"m starting to get confused by the labelling, and I'm sure a new visitor to your site would be also.

Oh, and color me stupid: I only just realized that the DTVIII meant "Downtube, 8-speed". I originally thought that it meant it was the 8th revision of the brand, and somewhere out there were owners of the DT, DTII, DTIII, DTIV, etc etc.

So, something that explains that "DTVIIIH" = "DownTube, 8-speed, Hub gears". What's up with some of the other new model numbers, did you have to switch out componentry mid-year due to supply issues?

Oh, here's two more, for down the line. If you're going to re-vamp the site's forum software, you'll find yourself with a budding web community of DT owners over there. Two other things that'd add to the site would be:
-Photo gallery of owners and bikes out in the wild
-Historic gallery. You've mentioned that the current model isn't the first Downtube that's been available. Did the older ones look different? Maybe they didn't look like much, but it's neat to see how a company's product line evolves. I've seen photos of old old Dahons, and while they don't look like anything I'd ride (I think I"m too tall), it's enlightening to see how they've developed.

Thanks for the advice. I have my tech guy installing phorum bulletin board software on the site.

I will also clarify the naming. FYI our first bike was a 6sp tested on the Virgin Islands. I called it my VI bike for Virgin island bike (also 6sp)

Thanks,
Yan
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Old 06-15-06, 10:36 AM
  #336  
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Just to share a couple cheap additions to my DT that have worked out well:

1) I've seen posters mention adding Powergrips to the stock pedals, but haven't seen anybody else do toe clips. I'll show a couple pictures to illustrate that with the strapless clips (https://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename= [also available at many LBS under different brand name]) you can maintain the folding ability of the pedal with some careful countersinking of one of the machine screws. Try at your own risk but these have been great so far for 500 miles or so.

2) If you're like me you ride a lot on the mini bar ends and would appreciate some more padding there and you're not crazy about the stock foam grips. I have an old leather saddle so wanted some leather wrap to match but didn't want to pay for the Brooks leather wrap. I found wrap made for tennis racket grips has a very nice feel and is much cheaper (got mine here: https://www.atssports.com/tennis.cfm?...anufacturer=16 but several brands available). As the picture shows, I double wrapped the bar ends and then wrapped over the foam. I have largish hands and have found this arrangement to be much more comfortable.
Attached Images
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toe clip.jpg (98.0 KB, 75 views)
File Type: jpg
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Old 06-23-06, 03:12 PM
  #337  
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Just to verify what is actually happening a friend bid $9.99 last evening on a VIII and instantly "User Identity protected] bounced right back with a topping bid so we think we can all assume that they are using a program to auto bid. Some would say that this is the much hated "Shill bidding" that longtime ebayers detest. I am not insisting on calling it that:-)) It is ugly. I have used ebay since 1999.

I do understand that Yan has to get his minimums but why not have a buy it now price or use a reserve? Perhaps the psychology of things is that people feel as if they are in a real auction with no reserve set. But for me and many of my friends, as soon as we see "User ID Protected" it means it is not a true auction at all.

My friend and longtime cycling buddy has bailed out 3 times when bidding on the Downtube because of the nasty last minute messages such as "You must bid at least $XX.xx to have a chance to win etc". It is very distasteful.

I am an engineer and work with some pretty sophisticated software. It appears to us that some Java? and/or other code has been written to enable the seller to mask all bids [which has the effect of hiding shill bidding too] and that same software is bidding at irregular intervals to make sure the price is in a certain window just before the "auction' closes. Simple use of a random number generator is all that is needed to make bids. A topping routine is then used to force bids up to the "window". Everything has been systemized!

So what is the problem you say? Well many ebayers like a straightforward auction where all cards are on the table. They also like to bid in the last 10 seconds but this software is so sophisticated it still tells you that you have been outbid even at the last second. So automatic bidding is definitely taking place and the day of the "Deal" price on a Downtube or other brand is vanishing.

Yan, if you read this please do not get me wrong. You know what I am saying. I know you are a highly trained Java man and programmer but i did not say it was you that authored this. The bikes are still priced reasonably but why not just offer the $250. price routinely instead of making everyone play the game??


Ciao,
Ches!

PS: After all the above I still like the DT bikes!
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Old 06-23-06, 03:59 PM
  #338  
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Originally Posted by slim_chestnut
Just to verify what is actually happening a friend bid $9.99 last evening on a VIII and instantly "User Identity protected] bounced right back with a topping bid so we think we can all assume that they are using a program to auto bid. Some would say that this is the much hated "Shill bidding" that longtime ebayers detest. I am not insisting on calling it that:-)) It is ugly. I have used ebay since 1999.

I do understand that Yan has to get his minimums but why not have a buy it now price or use a reserve? Perhaps the psychology of things is that people feel as if they are in a real auction with no reserve set. But for me and many of my friends, as soon as we see "User ID Protected" it means it is not a true auction at all.

My friend and longtime cycling buddy has bailed out 3 times when bidding on the Downtube because of the nasty last minute messages such as "You must bid at least $XX.xx to have a chance to win etc". It is very distasteful.

I am an engineer and work with some pretty sophisticated software. It appears to us that some Java? and/or other code has been written to enable the seller to mask all bids [which has the effect of hiding shill bidding too] and that same software is bidding at irregular intervals to make sure the price is in a certain window just before the "auction' closes. Simple use of a random number generator is all that is needed to make bids. A topping routine is then used to force bids up to the "window". Everything has been systemized!

So what is the problem you say? Well many ebayers like a straightforward auction where all cards are on the table. They also like to bid in the last 10 seconds but this software is so sophisticated it still tells you that you have been outbid even at the last second. So automatic bidding is definitely taking place and the day of the "Deal" price on a Downtube or other brand is vanishing.

Yan, if you read this please do not get me wrong. You know what I am saying. I know you are a highly trained Java man and programmer but i did not say it was you that authored this. The bikes are still priced reasonably but why not just offer the $250. price routinely instead of making everyone play the game??


Ciao,
Ches!

PS: After all the above I still like the DT bikes!

Lots of ebay auctions are 'private' in that bidder's id's are not available.. unless your buddy was the first bid at $9.99, I'd say the actual first bid was higher than 10 bucks.. I just went on ebay and bid on a $.01 auction Downtube VIII.. my first bid was $50 and generated an automatic response that I was 'outbid' .. that's expected... I then bid $70... I am now high bidder... please, no one else bid as I would like the Downtube for $70.. FWIW, I bought my brand new Downtube FS for $166 on a $.01 ebay auction...I'm no fan of 'private' auctions as I run into them all the time and like to know who I am bidding against, but I'm also not one to rush to judgement.. due to the high demand, the Downtube prices just may have stablized for now at the mid-$200 range..

Bruce
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Old 06-23-06, 04:08 PM
  #339  
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Originally Posted by slim_chestnut
Just to verify what is actually happening a friend bid $9.99 last evening on a VIII and instantly "User Identity protected] bounced right back with a topping bid so we think we can all assume that they are using a program to auto bid. Some would say that this is the much hated "Shill bidding" that longtime ebayers detest. I am not insisting on calling it that:-)) It is ugly. I have used ebay since 1999.
Ummm. Maybe it's me who doesn't understand eBay, but I thought that you bid by entering the highest amount you are willing to pay. You end up paying only some amount larger than the next largest bid, not neccessarily the amount that you bid. eBay keeps track of it all. So if A bid $100 and the price is currently $70, with A the winner, and B comes along and bids $80, then the price will tick up to $80, or some number slightly larger than $80, with A sill the winner. That's just the way eBay works. If you decide in advance just what your limit is, it should be easy.

I'm an occaisional eBay lurker, and after seeing comments about strange bidding on the Downtubes I watched the end game of a Downtube auction. I didn't see anything strange, and the winner got their Downtube at a pretty attractive price.
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Old 06-23-06, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceMetras
I then bid $70... I am now high bidder... please, no one else bid as I would like the Downtube for $70..
Bruce
Too bad my legs are too long for an VIII
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Old 06-23-06, 04:15 PM
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I know you have been on eBay since 99 but you have don't have a good grasp of how private auctions and proxy bidding work. The downtube is a poplular bike and just a few people trying to buy one on a regular basis can run the price up quickly to the range they usually sell at. I own two, yet often bid on them
to that "minimium" range to see if I can grab another one at the price I got my earlier ones at.
No such luck. Besides the current bikes are about $100 nicer than the 2005 bike.
Please do some more research before you attack someone who has been 100% honest and responsive to buyers. I have had two minor warranty items that were replaced immediately, no questions, and by
priority mail.
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Old 06-23-06, 05:23 PM
  #342  
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Slim:
You say you have been on eBay for seven years, yet it appears you need a refresher in proxy bidding.
Suggest you go here:
https://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/proxy-bidding.html

There are also user-to-user forums within eBay where you can see this question bandied around every week, along with "The bid went to exactly $1 (or $2.50) above what I bid, so somehow that person KNEW MY SECRET AMOUNT."

As your "friend" was so suspicious, he or she could have clicked on # bids (next to "History") and seen that the out-bidder did so an hour and 25 minutes before the $9.99 bid. He/she could go back now and see that that person actually bid $99.99 at that original time... and was outbid another 4 hours later -- no slick Java code necessary.

The 'nasty last minute messages such as "You must bid at least $XX.xx to have a chance to win etc".' are auto-generated by eBay... and all they mean is that either (1) the bidder you are trying to snipe already had a higher proxy bid on the item, or (2) in the rare case where you know that the price sitting there is the actual limit of the proxy on the auction (because, for example, it is less than one increment above the one before) -- and you still get the nasty message, another sniper got there first with an equal or greater bid. Your "friend" didn't "bail out" -- he or she was out-sniped.

If you want a Buy-It-Now price, you can go to the Downtube website and save Yan the percentage and fees he pays eBay!

If I had to, I'd guess that Yan has specified that bidders' IDs be hidden because the cycling (and particularly the folding-cycle) world is small enough, and people use the same ID on eBay and forums like this -- that a prospective bidder might recognize the ID of the current high bidder and say, "Ohhh, I know him! I think I'll *let* Bruce win this bike for $70, then next week he can let ME win one cheap!" -- artificially depressing the prices in a sort of reverse-shill-game.

Among the reasons for putting a bike or two up for auction continuously is VISIBILITY -- more people see the brand name and maybe research it... they find this forum and the NEW ONE (!) on the Downtube website -- and pretty soon they are SOLD on the bike... maybe they get their first one for a bargain mid-$200 price at auction, but maybe they buy their NEXT *higher-end* one from the website! Maybe they start a collection AND tell all their friends!

Hee hee, I know because that's how *I* found, and found-out-about, the Downtube. My husband's auction-win came Wednesday, and it's a matter of a SHORT time before we order the next one -- just long enough for him to decide if he'd rather have the internal hub!

~'spin!~

PS, Speedo:
>>I watched the end game of a Downtube auction. I didn't see anything strange,
>>and the winner got their Downtube at a pretty attractive price.
Yes, I did!
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Old 06-23-06, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by slim_chestnut
Just to verify what is actually happening a friend bid $9.99 last evening on a VIII and instantly "User Identity protected] bounced right back with a topping bid so we think we can all assume that they are using a program to auto bid. Some would say that this is the much hated "Shill bidding" that longtime ebayers detest. I am not insisting on calling it that:-)) It is ugly. I have used ebay since 1999.

I do understand that Yan has to get his minimums but why not have a buy it now price or use a reserve? Perhaps the psychology of things is that people feel as if they are in a real auction with no reserve set. But for me and many of my friends, as soon as we see "User ID Protected" it means it is not a true auction at all.

My friend and longtime cycling buddy has bailed out 3 times when bidding on the Downtube because of the nasty last minute messages such as "You must bid at least $XX.xx to have a chance to win etc". It is very distasteful.

I am an engineer and work with some pretty sophisticated software. It appears to us that some Java? and/or other code has been written to enable the seller to mask all bids [which has the effect of hiding shill bidding too] and that same software is bidding at irregular intervals to make sure the price is in a certain window just before the "auction' closes. Simple use of a random number generator is all that is needed to make bids. A topping routine is then used to force bids up to the "window". Everything has been systemized!

So what is the problem you say? Well many ebayers like a straightforward auction where all cards are on the table. They also like to bid in the last 10 seconds but this software is so sophisticated it still tells you that you have been outbid even at the last second. So automatic bidding is definitely taking place and the day of the "Deal" price on a Downtube or other brand is vanishing.

Yan, if you read this please do not get me wrong. You know what I am saying. I know you are a highly trained Java man and programmer but i did not say it was you that authored this. The bikes are still priced reasonably but why not just offer the $250. price routinely instead of making everyone play the game??


Ciao,
Ches!

PS: After all the above I still like the DT bikes!
Interesting reading your observations...I too am a former software person and made some of the same observations about a month ago. Some list members were offended by my inferences and attacked me for not understanding the nature of Ebay and bidding. I also feel that showing the bidder Ids would eliminate any perception of unethical practices. You can search on completed auction items for Downtube bikes and will see some patterns that make you wonder. Just observations, not acusations. Art.
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Old 06-23-06, 08:06 PM
  #344  
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In the interest of "laying out all cards", when I won my DT on ebay, I put in multiple bids, and chose the last number as an odd dollar amount... $203.51, I think. The item was bid up to $203.00, within a dollar of my highest offered bid.

Is it possible to use private auctions, combined with multiple other accounts in order to artificially inflate the price of your items? Example. I put up a widget for sale, use an automated program to put in bids "against" potential buyers, raising the price. At the last possible moment, if my program has bid the highest, I use another automated system to permit the fake buyer to retract his highest bid.... thus lowering the price to "just within reach" of the highest possible bid of one of the real bidders.

Presumably eBay forbids such practices, but how could we expect them to enforce something like this? If the bidder ID's are private, nothing can be proven unless eBay investigates, and they have no incentive to, since the practice would result in higher winning prices, and thus higher commissions for them.

It does seem a bit dodgy, but my experience with Yan has been otherwise pretty darn good, and I'm still very happy with my bike at the price I paid. I reserve judgement unless more info is forthcoming. Yan follows this thread pretty regularly, so we'll probably hear from him before too long.
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Old 06-23-06, 08:12 PM
  #345  
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Well...
I do understand proxy bidding but when it is done with "User ID kept private" it is also an excellent method for masking so called proxy bidding. I do not go on ebay to waste time and gamble that I might win an auction when it is not really an auction.

My experience has been that those selling lots of merchandise on ebay are everywhere and get VERY militant when you mention some of the methods being used to boost profits. An auction is an auction.....except when ebay gives them the tools to keep the buyers in the dark.

As to the fellow who just went on and bid $70. Bidding this early in the game just tells the seller that he has someone on the line "watching" and to jockey for position. Bidding at the last minute on non-rare items is much wiser and what many ebay veterans do. Only a child [nothing personal] would think that they could bid early and win anything of real value..unless it is of value onlyy to them.

What I object to most is the practice of running up of the sell price by the seller or his agent. Simply put it is not ethical. But then again ebay never was a very ethical place except in the very early days! I continue to find deals on ebay but it takes diligence.

My 2¢ of course
Ches
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Old 06-23-06, 08:25 PM
  #346  
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various DT questions

Now to clear the air,

As I said before. I like thhe Downtube bikes. I design and build some experimental frames and think that most designs that harken back to the classic Raleigh 20 are superior. Of course the FS is a totally different animal from most except possibly the obvious semblances to a Birdy and a few other designs.

And do we have any other 230 LB 6' 4" riders or similar on here? Which frame have you settled on and why? I am tempted toward the VIIINS because the front fork on the VIII may notobe ideal for big guys unless it can be adjusted. Is it spring only or pneumatic?

And related to suspension on a DT, is anyone using Schwalbe 2.5 tires on their Downtube. Those babys ride very very nice and have low rolling resistance too along with a nice "suspension" feel and fantastic "grip".

Thanks.
Ches
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Old 06-23-06, 08:27 PM
  #347  
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In its defense, "User ID kept private" has the benefit of protecting you from scammers. That's probably one of the reasons why eBay put it in place.
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Old 06-23-06, 08:50 PM
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I am 220 lbs and find the IXFS to be very comfortable. The rear suspension is adjustable however I have left it at the factory setting. The front has more suspension give than the rear but has never bottomed out and I like it. I am not sure if it is spring or pneumatic.
I hope to have my VIIIH next week and will be able to compare the two frames first hand.
By the way I find Yan to be very customer oriented and incredably honest.
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Old 06-23-06, 09:11 PM
  #349  
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What I object to most is the practice of running up of the sell price by the seller or his agent. Simply put it is not ethical
You're right. That practice is unethical. It is also unethical to publicly accuse a seller of doing this without any proof, which is what you've just done. While you say you understand proxy bidding, no one who actually does would express surprise or anger when a bid is immediately "topped" by that of another bidder who bid hours before. That is precisely how the system is supposed to work. To conclude, "we can all assume that they are using a program to auto bid" is indefensible.

The only thing unusual about the Downtube auctions is the "user ID kept private" part. It is not unusual for multiple auctions of the same item to end up in the same price ballpark. This has happened with so many different things on ebay that I've bid on I couldn't even begin to count them. It will happen with any product that has a large number of people interested in it. That is how the market works - a price is established by what people are willing to pay and stays in that same general area.

Could private listings be abused? Sure. But the only evidence that has been offered so far in this case are the totally mundane bidding patterns in Downtube auctions that any experienced ebay bidder will have seen countless times before.
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Old 06-23-06, 09:12 PM
  #350  
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Originally Posted by bookishboy
In the interest of "laying out all cards", when I won my DT on ebay, I put in multiple bids, and chose the last number as an odd dollar amount... $203.51, I think. The item was bid up to $203.00, within a dollar of my highest offered bid.

Is it possible to use private auctions, combined with multiple other accounts in order to artificially inflate the price of your items? Example. I put up a widget for sale, use an automated program to put in bids "against" potential buyers, raising the price. At the last possible moment, if my program has bid the highest, I use another automated system to permit the fake buyer to retract his highest bid.... thus lowering the price to "just within reach" of the highest possible bid of one of the real bidders.

Presumably eBay forbids such practices, but how could we expect them to enforce something like this? If the bidder ID's are private, nothing can be proven unless eBay investigates, and they have no incentive to, since the practice would result in higher winning prices, and thus higher commissions for them.

It does seem a bit dodgy, but my experience with Yan has been otherwise pretty darn good, and I'm still very happy with my bike at the price I paid. I reserve judgement unless more info is forthcoming. Yan follows this thread pretty regularly, so we'll probably hear from him before too long.
ebay forbids shill bidding and anyone that does so will be suspended from ebay. We have never done any shill bidding and have never been suspended.

Keeping things private keeps other manufacturers out of our private business information.

Thanks,
Yan
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