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Downtube folding bike

Old 11-08-06, 01:34 PM
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I am coming to the IX FS from a seven speed folder with a 13 - 26 rear cassette. To me the nine speed 11 - 32 cassette of the DT (both have 48T up front) is improvement enough! The derailleur cage of the DT is enough longer than my other folder to illicit concern, there may actually be less than 3" between the bottom of the cage and the pavement. What happens if someone bolts on a 53T ring to this? Can the existing chain handle that? I haven't run the numbers on the DT but I did on the 1/2way. Low was 33" high was 74". I have to believe the DT is getting down into the high 20's on the low end and pushing 90 on top or better. 102" was the top gear for years and years on dept. store 10 speeds. That was in the 5 speed, two chainring days. How many actual rideable gears did these rigs have? Six? Eight? The DT has nine useable gears without the complexity of the FD. For a bike that is not expected to go off road or do loaded touring I think thats plenty. How many blown out knees are out there as a result of those overgeared dept. store relics? I also don't want to be a spoilsport but IMO too many of us look to high gears to satisfy our need for speed. I'm almost 50 years old and it used to piss me off when some 20 something would cruise by me at half my cadence but I am noticing that if the ride is long enough I will eventually reel them back in. And my knees and other joints feel 'much' better doing it.

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Old 11-08-06, 07:53 PM
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Mauna or others who've changed out their bottom bracket, did you need a lockring wrench or is a BB socket wrench adapter all you needed? Or did you just have the shop do it? I like supporting my LBS, but the more I know and can do the better.
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Old 11-08-06, 08:35 PM
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BMFU, buy the NB "Pro Basic" Tool Kit when it's on sale.. sometimes as low as $35. The OE BB used a BB tool in the NB Big Tool Kit, it could have been the Shimano BB tool. Yan would know.

Last edited by maunakea; 11-12-06 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 11-10-06, 01:27 AM
  #754  
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A funny thing happened while I was waiting for my DT

I got my 2006 IX Front Suspension today! Being in California, the shipment took a full week. While I was eagerly awaiting its arrival, I saw a 2005 FS on Craigslist for a great price. So, I snagged it yesterday. One month ago, I didn't know anything about folding bikes. Now, I got two.

I'm going to set up the Front Suspension as my fast bike, my alternate roadie for recreational use. I've stripped the kickstand, rear rack and other non-essentials off. I've already put on a set of Velocity wheels with 1.5" Marathon tires at 100psi. What a difference just that change made! Also put on a 130mm stem to give me more reach. A racing saddle. I'm going to put an FSA 53/39 front chainring. It will also have front disc brakes. Also thinking of upgrading the shifter to a thumb-type. I really don't like the twist type shifters. Can anyone recommend a good one? I'm thinking through different handlebar options as well. I'll post pictures after some more work is completed. Oh, I also agree with Wavshrdr about the foam grips - ick! I'll get some bar tape over them.

The Full Suspension bike will be set up for my wife (as soon as I convince her that she NEEDs it). It'll be configured for comfort and cruising. I'll be using the parts that come off the new bike to upgrade this older one (pedals, stem and whatever drive-train parts I swap out).

Some observations so far:

- The Out-of-the-Box experience with the new DT was very good. There was a hole in the shipping box which made me nervous, but turned out to be the pedal poking through the box. The bike was nicely wrapped in cardboard and bubblewrap. I really just had to air the tires and adjust the RD barrel screw and that was it! Rode it around the neighborhood and showed it off. I probably convinced 3 other people to order one already.

- I found the ride to be quite nice. I had anticipated a rougher ride with the small wheels, but it was fine. The seatpost is just past the limit line. I'm 6 ft. I don't know if taller people can use this for any kind of longer rides. The balance is fine for me. I was able to ride hands-free, although not as steadily as on my road bike. I like the turning radius a lot! The low-gears are going to be just fine for the hills near me. I could use some higher gears, hence the new 53/39 crank (no FD for now).

- It was interesting to compare the 2005 and 2006 side by side. Boy, what a difference! The
M50 derailleur and shifter on the 2005 are pretty poor. So are the cheap plastic pedals and chainring. And the smaller gear range. I think the 2005 is shorter too, I can't quite get the same leg extension on it. Still, it's a great value, and thanks to Yan's philosophy, everything's easy to upgrade and customize.

It's going to be FUN riding and tweaking the bike! Thanks to all who shared their experiences and advice on this Forum. It's sure helped me get up to speed really fast.
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Old 11-10-06, 09:48 AM
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My left crank arm almost came off this morning and that's with the lock-tite. I hope my new crank and BB get here soon, it's going to be an interesting ride home!
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Old 11-10-06, 10:22 AM
  #756  
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Originally Posted by BigMacFU
My left crank arm almost came off this morning and that's with the lock-tite. I hope my new crank and BB get here soon, it's going to be an interesting ride home!
If it falls off, it'll be a good opportunity to practice one-legged spinning
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Old 11-10-06, 08:30 PM
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So, the crank arm fell off finally .1 miles from home. Not only was the crank arm square taper hole not square anymore, but the bolt had half of its threads gone. One legged spinning was interesting, good thing I have power grips. Actually, just walked after 5 spins. Fortunately, my crank arm and bb came today in the mail along with the BB tool from nashbar. Unfortunately, my bb is on there so strong that I can't get it out, gonna have the shop do it with their pneumatic tools. 8 bucks, but totally worth it.
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Old 11-10-06, 09:42 PM
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At least you weren't dancing when the crank arm broke ...
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Old 11-11-06, 10:36 PM
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It took the LBS from 11 to 3:30 just to get the stock BB out, ended up having to cut it to get it out. So, my suggestion for all people with brand new downtubes, immediately go spend the 15-30 bucks it costs for a new sealed cartridge Bottom Bracket (you can get square tapered so you don't have to change crank sets from nashbar or some other vendor) and have your LBS install it. If you wait longer or ride in the rain ever, your BB will want to stay in forever.

I also found out that my stock BB was stripping the threads on my crank arm bolts, thus the reason for the crank arm coming loose no matter how much I tightened it or how much lock tite I applied.

The new BB and crankset is like a dream, the spline is much better than square as you suggested Mauna. Enjoy the nice weather sweeping the NE folks, I am!
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Old 11-11-06, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by BigMacFU
Unfortunately, my bb is on there so strong that I can't get it out, gonna have the shop do it with their pneumatic tools. 8 bucks, but totally worth it.
If you have a piece of strong pipe a couple feet long(or longer), you can put it over the end of your tool and use it for more leverage. You would be surprised how well this type of "persuader" can be to help get stubborn parts off.
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Old 11-11-06, 10:49 PM
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BigMACFU: How did they cut it out? With a cut off tool/disc, or a torch? Had it just seized inside?
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Old 11-12-06, 07:24 AM
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juan, you're right, but the depth of the bb cup spline wasn't deep enough that you could do that without the tool coming loose with too much torque. Also, it looks like so much torque was applied that it started to wear out the spline of the lockring.

jasong, It looks like they could've used a metal drill bit, which if I were doing it, I'd do the same, as you run less risk of cutting through the threaded part of the actual frame.

Picture:

For those who do end up getting a new BB, I'd suggest spending the money for a new crankset too and get an octalink or splined interface, Mauna is correct in that the ride is much smoother and efficient.

Last edited by BigMacFU; 11-12-06 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 11-12-06, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BigMacFU
For those who do end up getting a new BB, I'd suggest spending the money for a new crankset too and get an octalink or splined interface, Mauna is correct in that the ride is much smoother and efficient.
BigMac,

I have two DT's, a Mini and a VIIIH and I'm planning on taking them on a sailing adventure next year. It sounds like I really need to do this mod as getting wet, perhaps even with salt water is a given.

So which BB and crank set did you end up with and how much did they cost?

Do you think this is something the average person could change out on their own or do we need to take it to the LBS? My bikes are only a couple of months old and haven't been ridden in the rain or gotten wet at all.

Thanks.
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Old 11-12-06, 06:00 PM
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Polaris, YES, get a new BB. The stock BB for DT's is not a sealed cartridge BB, therefore ill weather=horrible wear for ball bearings. You don't need a new crankset necessarily, the stock is fine, it's just whether or not you want to change to a splined crank interface or not. If you just change the BB's, you can buy 68 x 113 or 68 x 115 from nashbar.com for $15-30 depending on whether you get the house brand or shimano. Just make sure you get sealed cartridge BB's.

If your bike has only seen nice weather, and you being in Long Beach I'm assuming it has, you may be able to change the bottom bracket yourself. All you need is a 1/2" torque wrench that can get you 35-50 ft. lbs. of measured torque and the $4 1/2" Nashbar Bottom Bracket tool. If you don't have a torque wrench already though, a decent one can set you back $35-50. Granted you'll be able to do this for yourself from now on, if your brackets aren't bad I'm assuming your LBS will charge somewhere around 10-15 bucks per BB replaced.

My one thought though is that even though the bikes have never been in the rain, being in Cali in Long Beach, everything rusts and wears out quicker because of the salt in the air (had friends in Rancho Palos Verdes and they had their initial deck furniture rust in a year, granted they were on a cliff above the ocean, it might just be easier if you've got the money).

Finally, if you do decide to change the crankset too, I got my BB a shimano ES71 BB 68 x 113 and paired it with the Shimano tiagra double crankset. They were 34 and 44 respectively (nashbar is having a big drivetrain sale right now). I do prefer this now that I've had a chance to ride the octalink connection over the square taper, but if you're looking to save, just switch out the BB.

Hope this helps.
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Old 11-12-06, 07:03 PM
  #765  
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Is there a big difference between the Shimano or Nashbar?

Will this work?

https://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...tom%20Brackets
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Old 11-12-06, 07:08 PM
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BigMacFU,
Ouch, that must of really been stuck in there. I'm glad they were able to get it out without damaging your frame,
Juan
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Old 11-12-06, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by BigMacFU
double crankset.
BigMac, did you install a front derailleur also?
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Old 11-12-06, 08:33 PM
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New BB

Polaris,

Another option on the BB that would save some money is to just take the current one apart, lightly grease the threads, and reassemble. BigMacFU is right that this one isn't sealed, I replaced mine with an old Cook Brother's I had on the second day I had my first FS bike, since I had the nicer one lying around. However, the fact that the bearings aren't sealed shouldn't be related to the BB being stuck - that's a thread issue, which any BB can have. I've seen top of the line bottom brackets very stuck in top of the line bikes.

The stock BB is relatively low quality, but you could just do this preventative, then wait for its bearings to wear out before dropping the money for a nicer BB.

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Old 11-12-06, 08:42 PM
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Front derailleur

I saw your question about the front derailleur, and I've done the research for this, though haven't put it all together yet. For those of us who are budget minded (because we have other expensive bike projects), it looks like all you need to do it is:

- Shifter
- Cables + housing
- Zip ties, to route the new cable (I haven't found a much prettier option)
- A cable stop, such as this one , to go on the downtube. 1 1/4" diameter
- A top-pull front derailleur, probably a road bike one so it can accept the larger chainrings that one might use with the 20" wheels - these can be had on Ebay for cheap
- A second chainring for the cranks - I put a 38T on (just take the chain protector off, find longer bolts, and bolt the new ring on the other side). Eventually I may get a larger one to replace the heavy steel one that came with the bike, maybe 52T or something

I think that's it - am I missing anything? Anyway, I'll send pictures when I get this project completed (but first, I'm rebuilding my Fat Chance Yo Eddy...so it might be a little while)

Morgan
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Old 11-12-06, 08:43 PM
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Serial number?

Do the Downtubes have serial numbers? I looked around the area of the bottom bracket on mine today and couldn't find a number. Admittedly I was in low light. Is it just hiding, or is it not there...?
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Old 11-12-06, 08:47 PM
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Check the headset
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Old 11-12-06, 08:56 PM
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For the FD,
https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-bikes/229066-mauna-kea-bike.html
My rebuild used a down-pull FD.
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Old 11-12-06, 11:17 PM
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Vector, I have not put a front derailleur on, nor do I plan to. I'm in the city, I'm not a world traveler with my DT like Mauna yet. I also don't have the world's tallest mountain to contend with as Mauna does in hawaii, that's right, taller than Everest baby, just not all above sea level. So, if I ever encounter the need to ride up the empire state bldg. I'll switch to the smaller front chain wheel, but otherwise, I'll leave it on the outside.

Air, I think that nashbar BB will work great, it allows you to keep the stock crank set and sets you back 13 plus shipping. Plus if you need anything else, like some blinkie's, brake pads, etc... you can get them all and save yourself separate shipping charges if you buy would've bought them separately over the next few weeks anyway.

Juan, yeah, would've not been fun for LBS if they damaged my frame
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Old 11-12-06, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mcgurme
For those of us who are budget minded ... A cable stop, such as this one
Morgan, thanks for suggestions. As a budget minded I would not buy the cable stop for 15 bucks . I have a lot of components from the old 10 speed bikes (I hope I have the cable stops also), so I just needed to know if it is possible to attach the FD to this bike in a proper position.

Maunakea, thanks for the link.

Last edited by Vector; 11-12-06 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 11-13-06, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Vector
Morgan, thanks for suggestions. As a budget minded I would not buy the cable stop for 15 bucks . I have a lot of components from the old 10 speed bikes (I hope I have the cable stops also), so I just needed to know if it is possible to attach the FD to this bike in a proper position.

Maunakea, thanks for the link.
I addressed the FD question in this thread a long time ago. Our 2005 and 2006 FS frames would accept a 35.0mm FD. However, our 2006 1/2 FS frames use oversized tubing. They will not allow a FD.

Thanks,
Yan
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