andy_is_me

a good way to date your twenty is by checking out the date stamp on the rear hub. all the sturmey archer hubs have a two digit number stamped on them. if it's the original hub, that should tell you the year it was made.

yes, i'd very much be into working out some sort of a plan to get one of those bbs. if there's any canadian only merch you're looking for i'd be happy to return the favour. let me know how much you'd need, including postage, etc. where are you? a'dam?

v1nce

Hey Andy,

Yeh being an SA afficionado i thought about that dating method. But my 20 came with a (stock) single speed non SA hub. One of the cheaper versions i guess. No date stamp on it although i should look once more carefully.

As for the bracket. Ok then, should be no problem i think. I'll get on it, though it may take me a few days to 2 weeks max. I'll have to look into postage and such. But i think all told it would be anywhere from us 25 to us 55 for everything. Most likely somewhere in the middle. The BB isn't too heavy or big owing to the plastic "cups". I'll post more when i know more.

I am located in Rotterdam.


@Cheg, I checked it out and the fork is drilled for calipers.

Also i have taken lots of pictures of the final incarnation today. These include close ups of the BB, Fork and almost all the other bits. Hopefully i'll have a chance to update my pagein the next few days.

v1nce

Allright, today i went all out for you guys and picked my favorite mechanics' brain. This is what i learned:

The Replacement fork is not really a 'brand' or model as such, they are made and sold in bulk to bike stores by a company called Akiru.

The denomination which my bike store gives 'em when he wants one is:

"Universal replacement fork, 20 * 1.75 with the longest threaded stem" (yes, it is threaded, you don't have to have your store do it ).

The price my bike shop charges for the fork is E 22,50. He is not totally sure but he thinks a version is available that is suitable for cantilevers too!! How is that! He thinks if it is available the price difference is rather minimal.
He does recommend using the fork with a good/decent headset such as the Tange Levin for a smooth/stable ride. The fork is not machined/welded to such precision as forks that cost double or triple of course.

He can also order a totally different 20 inch fork that has good suspension and disk brake mountings but that one costs at least 3 times as much, possibly 5 times. If any of you are interested i can have him inquire next time.

Ok, now for the long story on the Bottom Bracket. I wrote down everything i could.


It is interesting because it seems to represent a different/other solution than most people (even experts) recommend for Twenties. And it is affordable. Philipsen explained that *** (yes that's what the brand is called) make some excellent cartridge bottom brackets, that are even used on some Koga Miyata bikes. The shells are made of hard plastic and some of the versions don't even have threading. Those versions are made to be hammered into Thompson bracket mounts/cylinders and since the moving parts are in the cartridge the outer part of the shell doesn't need to be mounted rock solid in the frame. As long as it is stuck in fairly good.

Philipsen recommended installing a BSA *** Bracket with standard 24 TPI threading and a 137 mm axle. He knew from experience that the bracket would go in just fine and that the plastic threading of the shells might be mangled a bit (it is only 2 turns of threading per inch difference after all) but my bikes metal threading would be just fine (meaning that in the future i could always install other brackets, even with 'proper' threading if desired). Not the most elegant solution. But importantly the end result was a cheap (way cheaper than most alternatives) durable bracket replacement that feels very stable and smooth.

The box in which the *** is sold says:

***
Cotterles 132 / 28 v
NR 9 6000
BAC BV Leiden.

The last two lines are redundant as they are only in use by/for the wholesaler that services my bike store.. i think.

Then there is the "cups" they are really more like plastic holders (see picture below) that screw into the bike frame. One side is fixed. The other side is used to adjust/mount the bearing unit. That side will have "*** Germany" molded in the plastic.

My bike store can definately sell me the following sizes (axle length in mm) 110, 113, 118,5, 122,5, 132 and possibly more.

He mounted a long 132 MM one on my bike because i have some thick BMX style cranks and my Nexus hub has back cog which is dished outwards. He achieved a nice and straight chainline. If you order a BB through me or anyone else you should measure how long of an axle you need. The old axle/cranks/chainline and a Caliper should help with this.

My mechanic also related that the Difference in TPI is a non issue in his experience. He has mounted them many times and they have given him no problems. He said you can actually turn the "cup" in by hand with only some force, so almost no chance of messing up your bikes metal thread. He sells them for E 18,50 although they price could vary a little bit depending on size.

He also told there is another brand called Kinex which makes a very simliar/clone product but that is really not as good so not really worth buying. Not even sure if they are cheaper. If you come across a Kinex you can recognize it because it the Barrel/integrated bearing unit of the BB reads:

Slovakia Kinex ... etc

Adjustable side/cup side also has information printed in the plastic, for example:

Made in Slovakia, Kinex 1,37 * 24 tpi RH

As i couldn't find the *** homepage it could be handy to check the Kinex homepage it has lots of info which will give you an idea of the construction and appearance of the ***.

https://www.kinex.sk/Katalog/tab1_en.html

I don't think the Kinex is horrible or anything, so if you can't find the ***...

I( TAKE THAT SHELDON!!! , Ha ha, only kidding, Sheldon is and always will be Bike God, Goeroe and Optimus Prime, i can't thank/praise that guy enough!)

The *** particular bracket i used looks quite a lot like this Kinex one, except the axle width is longer and the axle itself is gold colored. Also the barrel is thinner and has more metalic appearance. But it gives a general idea.

This bracket also enabled me to install cotterless Alu cranks.

Also i double checked this BB method. I went to one of the most reputable bike stores in Rotterdam (Biker's Best) that sells and services some of the most high end machines. They confirmed that they often used the Kinex 24 TPI BB in 26 TPI bikes and had no problems whatsoever.

So let me know if you guys need to order anything. If you do want to order something it would be cool if you guys could pay the postage and purchase cost and maybe a small donation for the Hosting fees of my page. But if you don't have the cash to spare no problem. If you need more than one thing it would be handy if you order it in one go as this will save a bit of hassle for me and bike shop and probably postage too. Also he said he might be able to give a discount if i order various things.

As for Canadian merch, sounds interesting! Know of any typically Canadian Bike products or URL that are really worth looking at? I am kinda in the market for a simple seat cover for the B 17 as well as a large bag you can hang of the B17 among other things.

Lastly as i was planning to, i did take some really nice pictures of my finished Twenty which show of all the parts including the fork. With a little luck i will post them within a day.

Best of Luck & hope to hear from you guys.

v1nce

Well almost all the pictures are up. Having a little trouble with my HTML skills,.. oh well, i'll get it sorted.

cheg

I like the Bling on the crank . The paint is in very good shape. Looks like you have not made it ugly yet.


The first picture:

https://www.rhizomes.nl/Pics%20Twenty...636smaller.jpg

is not working. Is it a file name problem?

v1nce

@ Cheg, so what did you think of the fork (see last picture)?

Yeah, i was laughing so hard when my bike shop ripped out the crankset for my consideration. 'BA-LLiinGG! And with the chrome fork, shiny headset, golden lettering and such it it sure looks Pimp ha ha. And the paint IS in great condition that's why i never wanted to spray it.

Since i am into roleplaying games i was joking to my friends that i should get the large fuzzy dangling 20 sided dice (these exist!) and hang them of my saddle.

You are right, i haven't made it ugly yet. I must say i am having a hard time actually doing it. I do think k it looks really nice. But as i will probably have to lock it outside my house soon i should though. Not only theft but also some of the kids in this hood get a bang out of trashing vehicles that look different. My plan was to get a seat cover, tape plastic on the frame and maybe throw gravelly water on the rims so it looks rusty. Then once i live in a more normal area i could just undo those things.

Yeah that is a b4 picture. I am sure i'll get it working (i have this this of problem a lot, but always get it sorted). To be honest i don't know why it isn't working. Maybe it is the name i'll check it, thanks for the tip. I use NVU composer and Filezilla FTP, great freeware but i don't know all the in and outs at all yet.

cheg

The picture is working now.

That fork looks fine, though a little flashy in chrome. Goes with the crank though . I went with a suspension fork but I thought about going with a rigid fork and a Pantour suspension hub to save weight. The suspension fork is really heavy. It probably weighs half as much as the frame. Pantour wheels are expensive though. Maybe on the next one.

ChrisM

That's a great looking Twenty! You're going to have a tough time uglying that up. Seeing this reminds me that I need to get some pictures of mine up.

af895

https://www.gaerlan.com/bikeparts/frame/forks/fork.html
Check out the J&B springer fork. ;p

ChrisM

That's a sweet fork, but the steerer on a twenty needs to be longer than that. Mine was 240mm when I bought it and I think I had to trim it a bit. Maybe 5mm...

v1nce

Yeah thanks for the compliment ChrisM. As for uglying it up. Well my latest plan was to buy black latex paint (is fairly cheap) and cover a lot the bike up with that.
I think because it is water soluble the paint will not mess with the finish/clearcoat, unlike stickers or other type of paints.

What do you guys think, will this work?

Of course some of the paint will wash up in the rain but if anything that will make it look even more crap. Siigggghhh. I console myself with the fact that if the paint does come of easy one day i can just remove it. Plus i don't think it is a co-incidence that that one guy John S. Allen got to ride the same Twenty for 25 years without it being stolen. I reckon his intentionall ugly paint job had a quite some to do with it...

ChrisM

I think your best bet is to trade frames with me. Mine's hideous!

andy_is_me

v1nce:
thanks so much for your help with this bottom bracket. the one i need is 110mm. send me a PM to hash out the details of payment and delivery, ok.

been checking out your website, some cool stuff there. it brought back some memories of de kalenderpanden, my band used to play/visit there, as well as a few other squatted centres around the netherlands. makes me want to get out and travel more...

v1nce

Aha, another bike/squat afficionado/fellow musician. Cool. You should travel more man, you'd be welcome at my squat in any case. What style/instrument do you play anyhow?

By the way i altered the bit about the Bottom Bracket in this forum and on my page. Almost everything still applies but i got the Kinex variant (not so good) mixed up with the *** (good). I'll also send you a PM in a sec.

v1nce

Hmm, i was just dreaming the other day. A very improbable dream but a nice one nonetheless... What if a bunch of 20 afficionado's were to get together. Say between 10 and 50. And they were to commision a good frame maker in Asia to build replica 20 frames made out of Titanium or Alu with a derallieur hanger, much beefier dropouts (horizontal?) and a standardized Bottom Bracket Shell.....

You'd end up with a very light (but still low tech looking and hence not too theft prone) folder that would truly be ridiculously durable and versatile.

Aaaahhh,... dreams...

Edit..: as i was told in another thread.. replacing steel by alloy is prob. a bad idea in terms of durability. It will save weight though.

bryano

I know it's almost 2-1/2yrs since you (Cavit8) posted this--
"I'll likely end up cutting down the head tube (from the top) to fit a shorter steering tube on the fork."
Am really curious to hear if you ended up trying this, and how it ultimately went. I was thinking of doing same thing, but then got to worrying about steering geometry. And then heard from Sheldon, "sounds like a Bad Idea to me. I would either stick with the original fork/headset or replace both."

It doesn't look like anyone--among the score or so of folks who've posted pics of their R20 projects--has thrown a normal headset on there and still kept a quick-release fold-friendly stem. Ideally, it seems it'd work to put a threadless low stack ht headset on there, like Aheadset STS, and use an unthreaded fork with 2-3 inches of space to spare beyond it. A couple alloy 1" seat clamp could hold the headset positioned, and a 3rd one or the orig lever-clamp could sit above these, in order to compress the top inch or so of steerer tube (that's been slotted) onto a 7/8" stem/tube.

Chances are it'll be more affordable to go with threaded + quill. Anyone know where I can find an extra long hollow stem bolt? I'd like to run my brake cable through the headtube so I can try to do bar spins. Oh yeah, it's gonna be a fixie. (So V1nce, I'm afraid to trust the *** bb for that--am hopeful about finding sq taper replacement spindle and keeping stock 26 tpi cups--but I love what you've done and that you've shared so much great insight!)

cavit8

This ended up on the backburner after I got the headtube cut by a local framebuilder and while I await a Phil BB. While it may not be the best option (although cutting from the top of the head tube won't affect geometry much), I had a BMX fork on hand that will fit. I'll probably be putting this together in the next month or so and will keep you posted.

Seymour.Arts

Hi guys, I'm new to this so sorry for dragging up an old thread but does anyone know of any places to date a raleigh 20 shopper? I've had mine looked at but all it has is what appears to be a serial number not a date and the old link on this thread for dating is dead now :/

wahoonc

Is yours a 3 speed? If it is there should be a date on the hub, it will look something like 76 3 which would be March 1976. Post a picture if you have one there are lots of little clues that may provide dating.

Aaron