Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Folding Bikes
Reload this Page >

Origami Bull

Notices
Folding Bikes Discuss the unique features and issues of folding bikes. Also a great place to learn what folding bike will work best for your needs.

Origami Bull

Old 02-02-24, 02:17 AM
  #101  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: The Ring of Fire
Posts: 1,093
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 552 Post(s)
Liked 659 Times in 417 Posts
Originally Posted by Duragrouch
...The larger-section tires ... provide greater rear derailleur ground clearance, but then even less in lateral clearance due to the greater width of said tires.

....
The trick is to adjust the chain length so that the lower pulley sits above the tire sidewall when on the largest, innermost cog. It requires finessing the length of the chain.
Ron Damon is online now  
Old 02-02-24, 04:08 AM
  #102  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,356
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1078 Post(s)
Liked 573 Times in 462 Posts
Originally Posted by Ron Damon
The trick is to adjust the chain length so that the lower pulley sits above the tire sidewall when on the largest, innermost cog. It requires finessing the length of the chain.
Yes, crazyguyonabike blog, he mentions having to alter chain length for that, or to keep the derailleur out of the dirt, darn, can't recall if shortened or lengthened, and I think he said that limited his gear combinations. But he also had to redish the wheel and still cock it a bit in the dropouts, to keep the chain from rubbing on the tire; before that he was wondering why it felt like so much drag on the low cog. Positioning the derailleur cage better may keep it out of the tire sidewall, but the chain is more difficult, especially on his Bike Friday NWT which runs a triple crank, so the inner ring is *way* inboard, often overlapping the bottom bracket for some cranks. I know, a good argument for 1X, but for both him and me, we need low-lows on 20" wheels, he runs 15 gear inches.

The blog is quite good, though I saw it before discovering the folding subforum here, so no new technical info to you seasoned folding folks, but good other info. One thing of value I saw, he runs straps from the rack to under each rear pannier to take the majority of the vertical load, that greatly increases the life of the plastic rack attachments on modern panniers, and a horizontal strap from front of the rear rack, around pannier to back (like me, his rack is well aft, past the tire, for great heel clearance), around the other pannier and then to the front on the other side, he said that holds up better than the hooks or springs typically holding panniers inward.
Duragrouch is online now  
Old 02-02-24, 08:35 AM
  #103  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Pinigis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 1,492

Bikes: Origami Gazelle, Origami Crane 8, Origami Cricket 7

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 463 Post(s)
Liked 413 Times in 245 Posts
Originally Posted by Duragrouch
I think you're missing my point.

First, what I'm saying is that the bike is an excellent palette, on which to make a superior bike. Think of it as a masterpiece painting that is 95% complete. Filling in the other 5% makes more difference on the whole than just 5%.

Second, many product makers used to make products that were simply adequate for the market. And most people are not up to major modifications. But that left the market open for other product makers who were more obsessed with perfection, to come in and snatch the market. Look at the US automakers, selling cars of poor design and quality, then japanese started to sell cars is the US of good quality, germany sold cars of good quality and superior design, started to take market share. Then japan rolled out cars of excellent quality AND design; A guy I used to work with, worked at Mercedes-Benz USA, their management said of Lexus, "They have no tradition!" Then they brought in an LS400 to their garage, and were able to balance a nickel on the engine while the throttle was slowly advanced, just like the TV commercial, and they were like "HOLY SH_T!" That woke them up, and they started trying harder. I used to be a car modifier to a high degree, but cars are so good and competitive now, I would need to do nothing. My point being...

The Bull looks to be competitive for the market with the gearing range offered. But it would blow away the competition with 2X gearing, for cost to the manufacturer, I am guessing, under $50 in parts (wholesale prices), and only additional labor of installing a front derailleur and shifter. What would the value to the market be? I am guessing, more than $50, and that's increased profit. Remember, the average biker won't do the conversion, and the parts would cost retail about $150, so the bike being equipped that way from the factory, can sell for $150 more, and still yield plenty more profit to the maker. And if Origami doesn't offer it, someone else will. Like Zizzo. I still can't believe Dahon doesn't offer a 20" folder with 2X and discs at a reasonable price. But they did offer the Formula 18 with that around 2014, but a) road 2X 130 BCD crank, didn't offer that much lower a gear, and b) was very premium priced at $1200-$1500, if I recall correctly, about 3X the price of the 1X bike on which it was based, they got greedy. Which brings me to...

The Sin of Premium Pricing, one of the Seven Deadly Business Sins; It creates a perfect opportunity for competitors to enter the market and undercut you for the same product.

So, swing for the fences in product design, offer the BEST product you can ("Insanely Great" has worked for Apple), and price reasonably to discourage competition.

But hey, it's your business or who you are buying from. (From posts I have seen here, I gather that you are a dealer?)

You should read Drucker's "Five Deadly Sins in Business", been around for decades, and all the lessons still apply. (Others have copied Drucker's work and republished under Seven Sins..., etc.) Summary:

https://www.apqc.org/blog/druckers-f...-sins-business
Ultimately, it is all up to what consumers want. I will make an 18-speed version this year and see how it goes. Thanks for putting so much thought into this.
__________________
Paul Pinigis
Owner of Origami Bicycle Company
Pinigis is offline  
Likes For Pinigis:
Old 02-02-24, 12:41 PM
  #104  
55+ Club,...
 
tds101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somewhere in New York, NY
Posts: 4,404

Bikes: 9+,...

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1153 Post(s)
Liked 894 Times in 628 Posts
Pinigis I got this for around $400, and it's a 16 speed. Granted, it's 2+ years out of manufacture, and an offloaded import, but I'm sure an 18 speed is possible for a decent price. Even using a hollowtech style bottom bracket shouldn't be too much of a price increase, considering it's performance benefit. I'm still waiting to be able to start my upgrades.
__________________
If it wasn't for you meddling kids,...
tds101 is offline  
Old 02-02-24, 09:23 PM
  #105  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,356
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1078 Post(s)
Liked 573 Times in 462 Posts
Originally Posted by Pinigis
Ultimately, it is all up to what consumers want. I will make an 18-speed version this year and see how it goes. Thanks for putting so much thought into this.
Thank you for the kind response, it is very much appreciated.

Last edited by Duragrouch; 02-03-24 at 06:45 AM.
Duragrouch is online now  
Old 02-02-24, 09:45 PM
  #106  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,356
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1078 Post(s)
Liked 573 Times in 462 Posts
Originally Posted by tds101
Pinigis I got this for around $400, and it's a 16 speed. Granted, it's 2+ years out of manufacture, and an offloaded import, but I'm sure an 18 speed is possible for a decent price. Even using a hollowtech style bottom bracket shouldn't be too much of a price increase, considering it's performance benefit. I'm still waiting to be able to start my upgrades.
Totally agree. I love my crank, I think it's exactly the same hollowtech II style you have, 50/34 on 5x110mm BCD, or 53/39, I think 5x130mm BCD, were available on amazon for $75 retail, including BB bearings. But for many months now, no longer available. They are still available on ebay. I really like retro 5-arm spiders, road cranks so low Q-factor (pedals not spaced further apart like mountain cranks), but they are becoming harder to find. Still plenty available with square tapers, but I'm a convert for the hollowtech II style with external bearings. No one seems to make that style in a triple, I get that modern 16-tooth drops make that less necessary, but some would want a bailout low, with an inner ring on 74 or 64 BCD. Cranks I see with that now, are 4 bolt with a high of 44 tooth, which doesn't work for 20" wheels. For now at least, I'm happy with the 50/34, and if I need a lower low, it may have to be with a bigger low cog.
Duragrouch is online now  
Likes For Duragrouch:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.